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Hi, my name is Weien and I don't play as a NIN/THF, but my girlfriend does (she likes the Ninja AF 'look,' but doesn't like to tank). I'm often worried about her future position in parties and also mine because I always party with her as my SAM (SAM and NIN, get it?). So before I went to sleep yesterday, I started thinking about ways that a NIN/THF might be buffed, without overshadowing NIN/WAR, in coming patches; some ideas are more feasible than others. I have been lurking on these boards for a little while, so you will see some of your ideas incorporated into this topic. Most of these ideas all follow the idea that Sneak Attack is the main way for a THF to do damage.
Very Feasible:
Sneak Attack affecting BOTH weapons - This goes for all /THFs and would be a really effective way to increase a NIN/THF's damage output without adding new skills.
Invisible/Deodorize/Sneak affecting Sneak Attack damage - In my mind, I was thinking that each of these would add about 50% more damage to a Sneak Attack. The reason this number is so low is because then a true THF wouldn't be too extra strong coming out of a Sneak Attack with Invisible/Deodorize/Sneak (400-1000% + 150% = 550-1150%), but this would help a /THF by leaps and bounds (150-200% +150% = 300-350%). You may be thinking that this will help all /THF subs, but it will most help NIN/THFs because of their innate ability Sneak and their ability to self-Invis. I would think that since the innate-Sneak is nerfed the damage from innate-Sneak to Sneak Attack would also be nerfed, maybe to 25%.
Less Feasible:
Throwing WS's - They need them. But S/E has said they have used all the WS models so this would probably have come in a new expansion.
Different way Ninja elemental debuffs work - I have found that the elemental debuffs don't really lower resistance that much. My idea is to make them so after you use elemental debuff the NEXT elemental spell (of the correct opposing element) would get a 10-20% increase (this number is specifically low otherwise skillchain MBs might be screwed, but even still that number might be too high as skillchain one only adds 20%) and then disappear, leaving no lasting effect. So if you were using Hyoton before a Aero, it would be useless and the effect would be gone. But before a Fire and the BLM would recieve a slight damage buff and then the effect would be gone. This also leads into my next idea of...
Three new "elemental" debuffs - Two for Dark/Light and Light/Dark, as someone on the board suggested, and also one for Physical/Physical. The Physical/Physical one would do physical damage and lower resistance to physical. I was going to say Non-elemental/Physical, but I wasn't sure there was a "Non-element" in this game. Once again, the Physical/Physical one could lead into Sneak Attack damage, but you would have to have EXCELLENT team work to time this as if you casted the Physical/Physical debuff and someone did a regular auto-attack, that would probably be a waste.
Outlandish:
Status effects buffs/debuffs - This was way into the night and I was thinking about spells that give ALLIES debuffs inorder to give them buffs. I'm not quite sure about the debuff/elemental relations (ie Dark - Blind), but and example would be Poisoning a DRK to give him enhanced Haste. Or Binding a PLD to give him HP Regen. Or Blinding a a NIN to increase his Evasion. This is, as the title says, an outlandish idea, but I just threw it out there for you guys to discuss.
Invisible temporariliy removing hate - This would make it so if someone gets aggro, casting Invisible on him would make monsters turn. But if the Invisible turns off for whatever reason, all hate would return to the Invis-ed target unless the tank managed to build enough hate at that time.
Conclusion:
So with my ideal NIN/THF (pre-60) a battle would go like this:
Wait for a tank to Provoke and tell no one to draw their weapons yet ask for Deodorize then use Sneak Attack/Invisible/Physical-Physical debuff and hit the monster or use WS. The rest of the battle, plan with the mages and use one-hit elemental debuffs when you can and reuse the Sneak Attack combo when possible.
For reference:
Assuming one hit from one hand is 25 damage...
25 x 3-3.5 (Sneak Attack with Invisible/Sneak/Deodorize) x 1.2 (Physical/Physical debuff) = 90-105 x 2 (Second Hand) 180-210.
In retrospect, making the second hand work with Sneak Attack would probably overbuff my idea as well as THF/NINs. So I should probably remove that part...
Oh well, discuss.
Very Feasible:
Sneak Attack affecting BOTH weapons - This goes for all /THFs and would be a really effective way to increase a NIN/THF's damage output without adding new skills.
Invisible/Deodorize/Sneak affecting Sneak Attack damage - In my mind, I was thinking that each of these would add about 50% more damage to a Sneak Attack. The reason this number is so low is because then a true THF wouldn't be too extra strong coming out of a Sneak Attack with Invisible/Deodorize/Sneak (400-1000% + 150% = 550-1150%), but this would help a /THF by leaps and bounds (150-200% +150% = 300-350%). You may be thinking that this will help all /THF subs, but it will most help NIN/THFs because of their innate ability Sneak and their ability to self-Invis. I would think that since the innate-Sneak is nerfed the damage from innate-Sneak to Sneak Attack would also be nerfed, maybe to 25%.
Less Feasible:
Throwing WS's - They need them. But S/E has said they have used all the WS models so this would probably have come in a new expansion.
Different way Ninja elemental debuffs work - I have found that the elemental debuffs don't really lower resistance that much. My idea is to make them so after you use elemental debuff the NEXT elemental spell (of the correct opposing element) would get a 10-20% increase (this number is specifically low otherwise skillchain MBs might be screwed, but even still that number might be too high as skillchain one only adds 20%) and then disappear, leaving no lasting effect. So if you were using Hyoton before a Aero, it would be useless and the effect would be gone. But before a Fire and the BLM would recieve a slight damage buff and then the effect would be gone. This also leads into my next idea of...
Three new "elemental" debuffs - Two for Dark/Light and Light/Dark, as someone on the board suggested, and also one for Physical/Physical. The Physical/Physical one would do physical damage and lower resistance to physical. I was going to say Non-elemental/Physical, but I wasn't sure there was a "Non-element" in this game. Once again, the Physical/Physical one could lead into Sneak Attack damage, but you would have to have EXCELLENT team work to time this as if you casted the Physical/Physical debuff and someone did a regular auto-attack, that would probably be a waste.
Outlandish:
Status effects buffs/debuffs - This was way into the night and I was thinking about spells that give ALLIES debuffs inorder to give them buffs. I'm not quite sure about the debuff/elemental relations (ie Dark - Blind), but and example would be Poisoning a DRK to give him enhanced Haste. Or Binding a PLD to give him HP Regen. Or Blinding a a NIN to increase his Evasion. This is, as the title says, an outlandish idea, but I just threw it out there for you guys to discuss.
Invisible temporariliy removing hate - This would make it so if someone gets aggro, casting Invisible on him would make monsters turn. But if the Invisible turns off for whatever reason, all hate would return to the Invis-ed target unless the tank managed to build enough hate at that time.
Conclusion:
So with my ideal NIN/THF (pre-60) a battle would go like this:
Wait for a tank to Provoke and tell no one to draw their weapons yet ask for Deodorize then use Sneak Attack/Invisible/Physical-Physical debuff and hit the monster or use WS. The rest of the battle, plan with the mages and use one-hit elemental debuffs when you can and reuse the Sneak Attack combo when possible.
For reference:
Assuming one hit from one hand is 25 damage...
25 x 3-3.5 (Sneak Attack with Invisible/Sneak/Deodorize) x 1.2 (Physical/Physical debuff) = 90-105 x 2 (Second Hand) 180-210.
In retrospect, making the second hand work with Sneak Attack would probably overbuff my idea as well as THF/NINs. So I should probably remove that part...
Oh well, discuss.
been dying to play looks like ill end up playing when ps2 comes. :sweat:
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