Ninja, offensive bards?

[Kiyosuki]

I guess I can kind of see the comparison.

The way the Ninja is structured I think is around the idea of being an adaptable fighter. Your abilities slow down the enemy's ability to retaliate back against you. Blink when you get hit, then the effects of Paralyze, Slow, and Blind all rolled into one to make the enemy's ability to retaliate back at you softened considerably. Then you have elemental Ninjutsu to give your weapon skills a slight edge since the majority of them are elementally heavy, and Katana elements are flexible (Though the joy of duel wield is in some battles you can combine different weapons. Ninja's have access to pretty much every element from the weapons they're free to use). So essentially your kind of like a character that specializes in Sabotage. Bards raise party stats and enfeeble a bit so its kind of the same idea, indirect defense/offense.

Ninja's can do the backup attacker/tank thing quite well, I did it a lot before Utsusemi Ni, once with a Paladin even and it worked out surprisingly well since I made them take hits even less. Ususally I wanted to be with a Warrior, Monk, or another Ninja. After I got Utsusemi Ni though this class changed completely. You can tank as a main tank before but never with this much potency. To me I think the Ninja becomes almost a completely different class after you start getting the Ni's. Before I wanted a backup provoker often but now since I can exclusively tank and use all my Ninjutsu to make me an even better tank since Para/slow/blind all make me even harder to hit, having a backup voker now is kind of like paranoid insurance. Its nice to have but I honestly don't need it much.

So in short, before the ni's Ninja's are a bit more limited. You tend to rely heavilly on your frontline comrades to help you out and use what you can to aid the party effort. After the Ni's though, your something completely different. A force of your own. Knowing what cllasses you work with best still helps but I don't have to rely on anyone to help me do my job. I like Thieves for Fuidama but backup voker's arn't essential anymore.

[Deodorant]

After just coming off a 2 ninja party, I must admit that perhaps non-tanking ninjas aren't that bad. Party was nin nin (/war) drk war (/thf) rdm/whm (me) blm/whm.

Granted, both ninjas were rank10, so they probably were rich and had kickass equip.

So anyway both of them were hitting for 35-45 a hit per weapon, so that's about 80-90 damage, which is comparable to most of the 'real' damage dealers. Also they have this 3-hit ws (I forget the name), that did about 300 damage, which is extremely impressive for a supposedly 'gimp' melee fighter.

[Kiyosuki]

I think if someone really takes care of they're Ninja they're actually far from gimpy fighters. Even getting up to lvl 37, playing a fighter/backup tank sometimes I kept up with the damage from other melee's (Minus Ranger's ofcourse, and Thieves sometimes). With Berserk on my hits did 35-40 each hit for 80 each and Duel Wield II isn't that slow. I also used my enfeebles and elemental debuff's frequently so the enemy was always a little to a lot less than what they actually were. The main physical tank got to take on things a lot more efficiently with my Ninjutsu paralyzing the hell out of the monster (Along with mage debuifs) and my sparing use of Shurikens and taking hate off the tank for a few hits using Utsusemi for as long as I possibly could.

I think the Ninja's offensive ability gets much better later on since Katana WS's supposedly do more damage then, and you have the potential to hit at a much faster rate (read potential) I think Ninja's are actually really good physical fighters if they debuff well and make sure every hit they do does as much damage as they can. Ofcourse just fighting means you waste the pure potential of Utsusemi's ability, so why not use both at the same time? I can see why they're considered great tanks, but also I think they're damage dealing capability is really underestimated. Not the greatest strikers but they hit fast and well, and debuff.

I think its because no matter what Ninja is a job you have to really try at, so you get either great Ninja's, or gimpy Ninja's. Get good equipment, but also be attentive, use Berserk as much as you can (or whatever you use to give damage) use food, Shurikens, debuffs, and everything the Ninja has. I think altogether the Ninja's abilities together can really make a difference. I honestly can't wait til 50 and on to see the different ways I can play around with this job's abilities. Duel Wield III + Haste from set's Whm + Fuma Kyahan + Double attack and duel Yoto+1's (And later AF) while still tanking (I want Hojo Ni NOW :spin: ). This job is has its difficulties with the equipment and tools but I think the fun and variety this job brings is really worth it. I'm having a lot of fun with this job now.

[Masenken]

I think I see Gomenesai's point in this

While a bard keeps downtime to a minimum defensively, a ninja can do the same offensively.

Bards support the party by optimizing their already strong abilities, while a ninja takes the role upon himself to cripple and take up all of the mobs attention leaving everyone else free to wail upon it freely.

Both methods are effective imo, and possibly more effective when paired