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**Kiyosuki** · 03-25-2004, 09:10 PM

Hm. Well here's a few that I know of as far as this job personally goes. I'm sure others may have more detailed information.

Even though Warrior tends to be seen as the absolute best Ninja sub job, I'll talk about them all, pro's and cons, just for reference sakes.

Ninja job basics: Class that fights using Espionage and ancient techniques of Ninjutsu. Has the inherant ability to use two one handed weapons (Duel Wield), and takes it to its highest levels through 4 upgrades (When subbed it can only go to Duel Wield lvl.2) Essentially the Ninja job cripples and sabotages the enemy's weaknesses and ability to retaliate, and deals medium damage to exploit this. Extremely evasive and speed based job. Most prominent ability is the ability to cast a multi blink spell on themselves to add to high evasion making them extremely hard to hit. A ranking in Katana's, Throwing, Evasion, and Parrying.

Ninja/Warrior: Job that keeps the enemy at bay by tanking with Speed and Espionage.

Pro's: Considered the ideal Ninja sub job. Huge bag of tricks. Highly flexible job that can increase your offense, and your defensive ratio (Although for Ninja's its not recommended or needed as you concentrate on not getting hit) Couiples with Ninja's wide spread of abilities exceedingly well. Can also give Double Attack to couple with Duel Wield for added hit rate for more sufficient damage, and damage bonuses to increase attack power slightly. Most important feature is the ability to provoke the enemy and act as a Pseudo tank(commonly known as "Blink Tank") casting Utsusemi 1 and eventually 2 in unision to become a speed based tank. Utsusemi, very high evasion, and high parrying allow a Ninja to avoid damage completely potentially. Everything a Ninja can do with Ninjutsu, throwing, and added offense from a Warrior sub can be thrown in at the same time, esentially taking full advantage of all Ninjutsu abilities. Ninja enfeebles to paralyze, blind, and slow attack as well as possible weapon abilities make you even harder to hit. Its considered the best sub job for the class, and is often used exclusively. It really fits its abilities like a glove. Highly sought after tanking class right alongside Paladin. Nothing is lost really, and you gain attack and tanking ability. Aids Ninja's main purpose of crippling the enemy's retaliation almost perfectly.

Con's: Very expensive, although every Ninja combo is expensive. If tanking, if you run out of Shihei powder's(The tool used to fuel UTsusemi), your basically finished with the party unless you restock, same could go with other Ninjutsu's too as they're needed to get the full blink tank effect. Lack of subtlty and specialty options since Warrior is such a bare bones flexible job, it spreads your stats evenly. Considered somewhat difficult a job to wield, tends to not be a job for everyone. You have so many options and things you must do that it can overwhelm some. Don't know if its a con(Depends on your personal opinion), but its considered one of your only options generally from others.
Must mention again, its very expensive.

Ninja/Thief: Fits with typical Ninja assassin mythos, one of the most controversial job combinations in the game over questions of its use.

Pro's: Higher Agility and Dexterity rating, makes Throw damage higher and makes you much harder to hit. Along with Sneak attack and later Trick attack, you can increase the power of one hit if coupled with a WS. Treasure Hunter and Gil Finder abilities make it an ideal gil farming choice. Flee coupled with the Ninja foot AF can possibly make you rival Chocobo's for foot speed. One has more leisure to send out more Ninjutsu, and should to keep up. Updated Shurikens are a must, and can offer relatively good damage with Agility increase. Usually seen as an alternative sub job option for only certain situations, or a soloing/gil farming job. Flee+Ninja AF+Sneak attack with a WS+Treasure Hunter can make you a very annoying gil farming/camping competator.

Con's: Sneak attack and Trick attack have always been lowered in power when used as a sub class, and recently its usefulness as a sub ability has been lowered even more. Instead of causing a Critical hit x3 like with Thief main, it only allows you to achieve the maximum normal damage of one hit, basically a normal critical. So damage ability with a regular strike is questionable. If coupled with a Weapon Skill this can cover it a bit, however Katana weapon skills arn't damage based for the most part (If someone has ever used the 2 new WS's I'd love to hear on those) So attack damage is still somewhat limited. No particularly useful abilities for party usage. Can pull relatively well with Flee and Ninja AF footwear, as well as better Utsusemi, but Ranger and Thief, as well as a few others supposedly do it much better anyways. Regular attack isn't aided particularly at all. Higher agility and evasion are minute since you don't tank with Provoke.
Class does neither horribly good, nor horriblly bad. Potentially just as expensive, if not more so than Ninja/Warrior since you must use the Ninjutsu and Shuriken exceedingly to keep up. Somewhat of a limited combination.

Nin/Mnk: Ninja's should be badass in hand to hand right...!?

Pro's: The abilities of Dodge and Counter would make your character extremely hard to hit if hate ever went they're way. Boost can increase attack power slightly. Access to pretty deadly Claws with multiple status ailments. With increased evasion+High evasion naturally as well as Utsusemi, and high counter rate can make this a pretty sound combo if one decides to tackle certain even match monster's or quest monsters on they're own. In fact, it could be very potent for that one function.

Con's: D (Or is it C?) Ranking in Hand to hand completely wastes those Hand to hand potential abilities. Boost doesn't cover the fact that Ninja's strike twice, and later on somewhat rapidly so its usage is too limited. Remaining abilities such as Counter and Dodge arn't useful at all if your not the one getting hit. Even if your Fuidama'ed keeping hate would be tougher without Provoke or something more to damage with. Essentially useless for Party play, as you offer nothing particularly to party effort at all. /Mnk like with all other jobs seems to be a combo with Ninja's thats only good for certain situations (Like Thf/Mnk for the undead) Except War/Mnk ofcourse, which is hot. If Ninja's got they're own provoke this combo would be killer, but thats not the reality.

Ninja/Red Mage: The most elusive Ninja combo.

Pro's: Honestly I have little to no experience in both word and personal experience in this job. But supposedly its strength is to strengthen its enfeebling game to new levels, and couple Elemental weakening Ninjutsu with Elemental Enhancing Red Magic to match up weaknesses and exploit while enfeebling to greater extents. It sounds like a sound, even great concept yet....
Can't say much more really. I have heard its a killer soloing combo at high levels. Supposedly best for the Tarutaru race.

Con's: I'd imagine lower mp would mean you'd have to know what spells you really have to cast. Unless your a Tarutaru mp will be a little short. I'm not sure how many Ninjutsu enfeebles stack with Red enfeebles, and what else a Red Mage sub would have to offer your enfeebling game since I'm not too up to date with the job. Dispel could be a very interesting to throw in.
I'm honestly shooting in the dark now though. There must be someone who knows better than myself.

Others I have little to no knowledge on, or just don't seem pheasable:

Ninja/Dark Knight: I've heard of its use at high levels only one single time. Supposedly with the Absorb spells, and increased attack you'd have good attack and crippling abilities, which are moe important to Ninja's. Weaknesses is ofcourse, Last Resort doesn't last long and Weapon Bash is two handed weapon only.
Maybe it does work ok, maybe it doesn't. I don't know myself...

Ninja/Dragoon: Honestly what would be the point? You get to be a jumping Ninja, thats it. Wheeeee

Ninja/Ranger: My comrade on Ragnarok, Vivid was experimenting with this. All I know is that its expense would be a crippling weakness all its own. Perhaps it has some obscure use somewhere, but I wouldn't want to dabble into its cost at all.

Ninja/Samurai: Perhaps if that 5 hit Weapon skill at 71 is all its cracked up to me then maybe....otherwise I don't see too much use.

Ninja/Beastmaster: Why? There's no point. Beastmaster/Ninja could be one hell of a solo character but not the other way.

Ninja/Summoner: Why? Maybe if your a really, really high level and you have Fenrir, you can go run around solo and pretend you have a Ninja dog. Other than that...all your abilities are wasted

Ninja/Bard: I don't particularly want to be a singing Ninja, I don't think any others do either. Abilites may seem similar in nature but they really contradict.

Nin/Whm, Nin/Blm: Magical ability is completely wasted on a job that just plain contradicts its purpose. Nin/Blm could MB with elemental enfeebles maybe but its not enough in my opinion.
Common sense just tells you it wouldn't work.

**Navia** · 01-17-2005, 02:05 PM

Ninja/Ranger

A large part of making nin/rng a competent combination is not slacking on your equipment.
Some would argue that nin/rng expenses exceed that of a nin/war - if you mix in enfeebling/elemental ninjitsu and pull enough hate to tank, this is true.
A good blend of ranged accuracy/attack, agility, and marksmanship skill is required to meet the goal of minimizing misses and doing respectable damage.
You are stuck with normal bullets forever, which leaves you with trying to get a better Gun.
Starting as nin/rng earlier than 24 isnt recommended by me personally, taking a look at what items are available starting at level 24 should give you a good idea why.

Shurikens
Shurikens are more expensive than nin/rng using exclusively using a gun.
If you are serious about shurikens, level blacksmithing to make your own, the good ones available at higher levels are rarely posted on the auction house or overpriced.
Shurikens can do good damage, but lacking a throwing ws will mean your tp is used on your mainhand weaponskill instead.
Barrage does not work with throwing, so a swap from shuriken to gun(tp reset), barrage,
then gain tp by melee/shooting to then use gun or mainhand weapon ws is the only way to utilize this /ja at higher level.

Gun/Bow Weaponskills
Gun weaponskills are somewhat tame until you reach level 57nin/rng and get Slug/Shot - being highly inaccurate, having a bard for +ranged acc song or sharpshot and 150% or more tp is recommended to avoid missing.
Level 60nin/rng gives you access to barrage enabling you to quickly gain a large chunk of tp to follow up an earlier used slugshot for rapid damage (and hate). A Slug shot followed by a barrage, a couple melee hits and another barrage will grab a monsters attention in a hurry.
Very useful outside of experience parties for taking down NMs that ninjas can solo but want to do it faster.
At level 63, nin/rng can finally use Sidewinder which can do about 2x as much as a Blade:Jin if you have a +1 type of bow and decent ammunition. Barrage is comparable with katana weaponskill damage as well.
Bows skill lags badly (rank E) behind guns and should be limited to soloing decent challenges or farming where widescan outweighs the usefulness of subbing THF for treasure hunter.

Fighting
Building up tp with melee (mainhand katana+archer or other +racc weapon in 2nd hand) outside of barrage can be more effective than just firing a gun.
One thing to note is that Blink tanking with the long delay of firing a gun takes getting used to.
The monster will have the chance to attack more times between ranged attacks while you are taking aim compared to attacks with melee weapons so watch your ninja shadows carefully and adjust accordingly.
Haste gear+dual wield reduction improves your swing rate with weapons you level up higher, enabling faster tp gain than exclusively firing a gun in some situations.
Gear swapping from ranged accuracy heavy gear to ranged attack/agi setup with 300% tp + Sharpshot is an effective tactic for max damage if you have the inventory space and the gil.

===Commonly used nin/rng items===
Listed below are the most commonly used items by a nin/rng to improve accuracy and damage - compiled here in one spot for easy reference.
More common items that grant small AGI bonuses or non HQ version have been left out in the interest of highlighting the most useful items you can equip for this combination.

=Guns=
Pirate's Gun+1 - Level 27 - 21/582 Earth Resist -3 Lightning Resist +3 Water Resist +9 Ranged Accuracy+5
Military Gun - Level 30 - 23/548 Ranged Attack+7
Negoroshiki+1 - Level 42 - 29/582
Deluxe Carbine - Level46 - 32/600
Coffinmaker - Level 72 - 27/600 Ranged Accuracy +9 Latent Effect: Damage 40 (rare+ex dropped from highlevel bcnm)

Pirate Gun +1 recommended if you are fighting stuff and missing barrage/ws even with sharpshot, or the new Deluxe Carbine for max damage.

===ARMOR===

=Head Items=
Emperor Hairpin - Level 24 - DEX +3 AGI +3 HP -15 Evasion +10
Optical Hat - Level 70 - Accuracy+10 Ranged Accuracy+10 Evasion+10
Seiryu's Kote - Level 75 - 26def HP+50 AGI+15 Ranged Accuracy+10

=Earrings=
Beater's Earring - Level30 - Ranged accuracy +3 (activated by rng sujob)
Drone Earring - Level 35 - AGI+3 Wind Resist +6

=Neck Armor=
Peacock Charm - Level 33 - Resist vs. Dark -10 Accuracy +10 Ranged Accuracy +10
Jagd Gorget - Level 40 - +2def 5ranged attack 5ranged accuracy
Spectacles - Level 59 - Resist vs. Ice -7 Accuracy +7 Ranged Accuracy +7

=Gloves=
Federation Tekko - Level 25 - Accuracy +3 Ranged Accuracy +3
Ninja Tekko (AF) - Level 60 - HP +13 DEX+3 Ranged Attack +20 Throwing Skill +5
Seiryu's Kote - Level 75 - 26def HP+50 AGI+15 Ranged Accuracy+10

=Body Armor=
Note: Not much to choose from in this category until Koga Chainmail/ Kirin's Osode that helps a nin/rng, evasion/melee accuracy items like scorpion harness are recommended.
War Shinobi Gi +1 - Level 70 - STR-1 AGI+3 Throwing Skill +12 - Adds 'Regen' Effect
Koga Chainmail - Level 74 - 46def Accuracy+12 Attack+16 Ranged Accuracy+8 Ranged Attack+8
Kirin's Osode - Level 75 - 52def MP+30 STR+10 DEX+10 VIT+10 AGI+10 INT+10 MND+10 CHR+10 Light Resist +50

=Waist Item=
Gun Belt - Level30 - Latent Effect (Active by using ranger subjob) Marksmanship +5skill
Royal Knight's Belt +2 - Level 52 - STR+2 DEX+2 AGI+2 INT+2 MND+2 CHR+2 Inside of Nation Controlled Area: Ranged Attack +6

=Leg Armor=
Ninja Hakama (AF) - Level 52 - HP +15 Ranged Accuracy +10 During Night Only: Evasion +10
Arhat's Hakama +1 - Level 64 - +28 Def AGI+4 Enmity+3
Dusk Trousers - Level 72 - HP +35 Attack +14 Ranged Accuracy +10 Decreases Movement Speed

=Back Armor=
Nomad's Mantle +1 - Level 24 - +2 Def AGI+2 Evasion +3
Beater's Mantle - Level 30 - Latent Effect: (Active by using ranger as subjob) Increases Rapid Shot Activation Rate
Amemit Mantle +1 - Level 61 - STR+2 Attack +15 Ranged Attack +15

=Feet Armor=
Leaping Boots - Level 7 - 3def DEX+3 AGI+3
Ninja Kyahan - Level 54 - 12def HP+12 AGI+4 Night : Movement speed+25%
Fuma Sune-Ate - Level 72 - HP +12 AGI +3 Haste +3%

=Weapons=
Archer's Knife - Level 28 - AGI +1 Ranged Accuracy +10
Trailer's Kukri - Level61 - Ranged Accuracy +14

=Rings=
Too many to list, anything with Ranged Accuracy is good, sniper rings are useful, allowing your melee accuracy to not suffer.

=Food=
Yellow Curry
*Does not stack*
3 hour duration
HP +20
STR +5
AGI +2
Intelligence -4
HP Regeneration While Healing +2
MP Regeneration While Healing +1
Resist Stun
Resist Sleep
Attack +20% (Cap: 75@375 Base Attack)
Ranged Attack +32%
Note: This is the new standard food for rangers, so if your accuracy is good enough, try eating this for better damage.

Squid Sushi +1
stackable(12)
60 mins (30mins for non HQ version)
HP +30
Dexterity +6
Agility +5
Resist Sleep
Accuracy +16%
Ranged Accuracy
Highly recommended by Sendantes on the Fenrir server, helps Slug shot accuracy the most.

Sole Sushi +1
stackable(12)
60 mins (30mins for non HQ version)
Resist Sleep
HP +20
Strength +5
Dexterity +6
Accuracy
Ranged Accuracy

Tuna Sushi
30 mins
Ranged Accuracy
HP +20
Dexterity +3
Charisma +5
Resist Sleep
Accuracy +15%

**Muu Yi** · 04-06-2006, 02:32 PM

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

About Ninja/Black Mage:

A very situational Magic Damage Dealing job that focuses on the spamming the Elemental Ninjutsu Wheel aspect of the Ninja main job. Not a very effective way of dealing damage until after level 51 where you can and should purchase all elemental staves except for perhaps Dark and Light Staff to help boost elemental Ninjutsu damage. Magic Attack job trait does boost Elemental Ninjutsu damage. There would be very little if any casting of actual Black Magic spells however. Possible to also sub-tank at the same time.

Ninja/Red Mage in an exp party would be similar to above Ninja/Black Mage except with 1 less Magic Attack Bonus, access to Fast Cast job trait, and have more support spells like Protect and Aquaveil which is a spell not often cast by healing and support jobs but which Ninja can benefit from in order to keep from being interrupted while recasting Utsusemi when they have hate.

About Ninja/Dragoon:

Ninja/Dragoon would be foremost a melee Damage Dealer. Jump Attack is basically a Double Attack going off on both hands set on a 90 second timer. Attack Up Job trait is gained at level 20 is before the Warrior Attack Up trait is learned, Hit Rate Up Job trait learned at level 50 increases natural melee accuracy, Warrior subjob cannot improve accuracy as Aggressor is a level 45 Warrior ability. Subbing Dragoon also allows a Ninja to use the +haste equipment whose activation is the subbing of Dragoon job for example the Wyvern Earring. Add this to when Ninja gets more and more Haste equipment and higher level Dual Wield as they get higher levels they can concievably hit the Dual Wield delay floor of 300 delay which is the fastest any job can attack unless they are a Monk with active Hundred Fists.

About Ninja/Monk:

Mostly a low level soloing job. Ninja is E-rating in Hand-to-hand weapons the same as Thief. It can be worthwhile leveling as this job combination using hand-to-hand from 1-9 as Ninja doesn't gain access to first Dual Wield until level 10 and Monk adds more HPs than any other subjob at those levels. At level 50 however, Ninja/Monk will also gain access to the very first 5-hit weaponskill Raging Fists as well as be ability to use the Focus job ability which will boost melee accuracy by +20 for 2 minutes. This can be useful job combination if you plan to do the Rank 6 Mission where you must fight the Archlich who is a Bone mob.

About Ninja/Samurai:

In addition to Meditate Job Ability after level 60 which will give you 60 free TPs, you would gain Third Eye which is yet another copy image for you to use should you find yourself tanking. You'll also gain access to one or two Samurai Exclusive Great Katana weaponskills, although Great Katana is only rated C for Ninjas.

**Spinnthrift** · 01-01-2008, 02:04 PM

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

About Nin/Rdm:

It's a situation Exp tank, but it requires very precise gearing/setup to work well. If the setup and situations are right, it's a powerhouse, with more hate tools than /War can give, and a lot stronger damage output overall - at the cost of a lot more Ninja tools used.

It *doesn't* work at all when overhunting. Also, doesn't work on things like NQ and Greater Colibri where you get everything reflected.

Works best post 51, using Ele Staves and a MAB/Int/Haste/Emnity setup, where you swap in Emnity gear for spells like blind, sleep and bind (high hate moves), and use MAB/Int gear for damage from the Elemental line of Ni's.

Pros: Very high damage output. Will sit at 140 average unresisted Ni's geared properly at lower levels (51 onwards), with highs of 180+. Lots of hate tools, i.e. Cure, Bind, Blind, Sleep. Better access to evasion gear for recasting Utsusemi - i.e. swapping in Austers when casting Utsu for the +10 eva (as tp gain isn't an issue). Access to buffs like Stoneskin/Phalanx/Barspells to augment Utsu. Great enfeebling with Ninjutsu, complemented by using Ele Staves for more accuracy. And in my opinion - the most important reason.. it is GREAT FUN to play. Hardcore nuking, playing tricksy with spells and lots of tanking.

Cons: Little to no melee damage. As Nin/Rdm you've no natural skill with a staff, and you're spam swapping weapons while engaged (for parry), so you'll never gain tp/ws. Overhunting makes this combo utterly pointless. You need a Rdm + Brd/Cor in support to help with mp/haste issues. It costs an absolute fortune to level like this, not only in gear, but in tools. You become a true blink tank in the sense of the word, literally flicking in and out every second or two. It might upset your healers if they're not aware. You'll get funny looks and odd questions about why your sub is gimped.

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Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

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