Ninja... pullers?

[gomenasai]

Ninja tanks... doesn't quite work for mithra... and it's *so* boring doing nothing but casting utsusemi. Though, it seems to me that ninja were designed to be pullers, what with the resist bind, throwing weapons, invisible, stealth, and yes, utsusemi comes in very handy while evading those couple hits before your party provokes you pull. I think that ninja shouldn't be *expected* to be tanks, it's really quite boring, though we make wonderful pullers... does anyone feel the same? are there any ninjas out there fed up with the expectations of party seekers? Good pulling is just as important as good tanking!

[gomenasai]

come on people, controversial topic, flame me up ^.~

r e p l y p l e a s e . . .

[stamplick]

what's so bad about tanking AND pulling? I do it every group that Im in.

[tonka]

THF/NIN is a better damage dealer and equivalent puller.
RNG/NIN is a better damage dealer and a better puller.

[hocuspocus]

if u dont like spamming utsusemi, dont bother playing, because nin really is not good for anything else. besides being a subjob.

just face the sad truths that square enix has forged our destiny as a tank because they cant come up with anything more original.

for christ sakes youll still be fighting crabs @ level 70.

you cant really expect too much from these guys



all i can say to ppl who want to play nin or think about playing ninja.

think about what youre getting into before trying the class, were not what you think. and im sure most of the regular nin's in this forum will agree.

[OtakuGod]

I'm so sick of this "Ninja has to sub war crap" ITS BULL!... To all you Nin/Thf's out there, you dont have to listen to these guys telling you to sub war or forget about Ninja. Utsusemi is good, but it was NOT designed for tanking, it was designed to cut down on being hit for pulling, or doing any stealth activities, like getting to hard areas and what not.

if u dont like spamming utsusemi, dont bother playing, because nin really is not good for anything else. besides being a subjob.

Thats pure crap, and your an ass for saying it.

Ninjas are great Debuffers for the mages, we make it easier for the monsters to be killed, and good pulling is one of the best things in a party IMO, cause if you cant pull for crap, everyone dies from trains, or just sitting around from bordom.

Ask anyone thats ever partied with me, and I'm sure they'll say I'm one of the best damn pullers they've ever had... I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but its true. I did it all the time as Thf up to 30, and now as a Nin/Thf, I'm experienced enough at it, and I do it with great ease and without any problems to the party.

If you want to be a drone robot like every other nin and use utsusemi as a tanking solution, go ahead and be one, but I for one wont respect you for sticking to the norm.

[gomenasai]

At last someone sees what i'm talking about!

Okay, this is how i pull~

1) Cast utsu on myself
2) Cast invisible if necessary, goblin's etc, also makes for good stealing ^^
3) Find a target, rain on it with shuriken and ninjutsu, and pull it back, al lthe while not being hit because of utsu
4) mages do a lot more damage, a tank provokes, and everything is downhill from there.

Really, when do you ever need a better tank than a paladin or warrior? Leveling on IT's in a 6 person group almost guarantees no deaths, except from bad pulling, which doesn't happen with a good ninja to pull~

Add a bard and downtime is nil, making 2-3 levels a night.

And put sneak attack on tachi enpi? pretty nice.

Just realize, a mithra tank ninja will die in 3 hits if she doesn't cast utsu in time, and ninja are capable of doing a lot more than the perversion of tanking so often used.

[Kirk]

What level are you guys? You can't be above 37 if else you would not dismiss Ninja as a tank so easily. You are correct, you dont _have_ to play nin/war. You can play a wtm/nin if you really want to. What we're talking about here is effectiveness.

Okay ninja as a puller, sure! Hey i pull and tank all the time. Nin can make a good puller, but puller as your main focus for being in a pt? Its too limited. Anyone can pull. Heck if you really want the best, safest puller in the game it would be a SMN using their pet! But what else are you going to add to the pt?

The difference as i said is effectiveness. A nin/thf is pretty good, just ask vivid he's played up up to 70 or what not. Your main role is damage and debuff. I'd say that this combo rates a B+ in terms of effectiveness as compared to a thf/nin for damage and a rdm/xxx for debuff. Sure you have these abilities but there are other jobs which excel above your ability to do them.

Now nin/war's main role is as the tank. And as tank they can be rated at A++ against the right type of mob, maybe a B- against the wrong type <mnk types ect>. But luckily you can pick the mobs you fight. So thats the difference. Having a job combo that is rated as A++ or B+. And really effective parties are made of characters who are all A's in effectiveness else its just inefficient.

But dont let this discourage you. Nin/thf can be done. And its not that nin/thf is so bad either, its not, you'll get PT, you'll kick butt, you'll have fun! Its just that nin/war is so much better at what it does, being a tank!

Now important note, i did not say nin/war is better than nin/thf. To say that is illogical because you can't compare combos. You can only compare combo's against their roles in PT.

Nin makes a good DD and debuffer by subbing thf.
Nin makes a superb tank by subbing war.

So it's just a choice of if you wany to be good at your role, or superb at your role. Most want to be the best at what they do so they pick /war. But there's nothing wrong with taking /thf. If anything you will stand out more as one of the few. And if that's what you're going for, uniqueness, then it should be fulfilling for you no matter what

[tonka]

Originally posted by gomenasai

Okay, this is how i pull~

1) Cast utsu on myself
2) Cast invisible if necessary, goblin's etc, also makes for good stealing ^^
3) Find a target, rain on it with shuriken and ninjutsu, and pull it back, al lthe while not being hit because of utsu
4) mages do a lot more damage, a tank provokes, and everything is downhill from there.

Exactly which part of that couldn't a RNG/NIN do? And they'll do it better with more ranged damage and wide scan.

I don't believe "puller" is a role that deserves it's own slot, you need to be doing something else once the monster is pulled.

But IF were talking about someone who just pulls, i'd take a Beastmaster over anyone else. We had a BST in our PT pulling for us, and all the monsters came in with only 80% health left because the BST was out there fighting it while at the same time the PT was fighting the last mob.

Really changed my views on BST being useless in a PT, in a big way.

[hocuspocus]

Originally posted by OtakuGod
Thats pure crap, and your an ass for saying it.

Ninjas are great Debuffers for the mages, we make it easier for the monsters to be killed, and good pulling is one of the best things in a party IMO, cause if you cant pull for crap, everyone dies from trains, or just sitting around from bordom.

Ask anyone thats ever partied with me, and I'm sure they'll say I'm one of the best damn pullers they've ever had... I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but its true. I did it all the time as Thf up to 30, and now as a Nin/Thf, I'm experienced enough at it, and I do it with great ease and without any problems to the party.

If you want to be a drone robot like every other nin and use utsusemi as a tanking solution, go ahead and be one, but I for one wont respect you for sticking to the norm.

dont be upset because youre a poor little wannabe ninja. sorry dude but if you join parties just to pull monsters and cast kurayami or whatever on them, you have some mental problems. get some gil and experience what ninja is all about. get a job newbie. youre a disgrace to our class

[PhoR]

it all comes down to the fact that the ninja class was not finished when it was released, but deadlines are deadlines.

nin IS the best tank in the game past lvl 37 (with the right group), nin IS NOT the best at doing anything else whatsoever. that's why everyone is so adament about war sub, because if you do not sub war, then you can easily be replaced by a number of other characters that will be more effective than you at dmg dealing, debuffing, etc. however if you do sub war, after lvl 37, you will be great. (tanking with nin/war before lvl 37 is VERY difficult)

Think of it this way. How many pld's do you see with a different sub other than war? They simply have to have war sub to be the most effective. It is the same with nin right now.

surely though, as soon as the next major patch or expansion comes out, they will add the rest of the nin abilities that they weren't able to complete in time for release, making many more subjobs viable for nin, and making it a better class overall.

At least I hope so.

[PhoR]

double post grr...

[OtakuGod]

dont be upset because youre a poor little wannabe ninja. sorry dude but if you join parties just to pull monsters and cast kurayami or whatever on them, you have some mental problems. get some gil and experience what ninja is all about. get a job newbie. youre a disgrace to our class

Ninja wannabe?

No, I don't think so. Now by looking at your level I'm assuming its correct, and so in seeing that as a correct level, I'm also assuming you've leveld in Garlaige & Crawlers Nest. Now your gonna sit there with a straight face and tell me that effective pulling is not needed in those places?! Come on, we've all seen what happens when some half ass puller tries, and comes back with citadel bats, or wingrats in garlaige.

Or

In crawlers, pulls back a train of crawlers cause he didnt' know they linked.

I have plenty gil actually, probably because I'm not blowing smoke up my own ass by buying Shiei and thinking I'm the games gift to tanks.

No my friend, I'm not a newbie, I'm sure you started the same time as me, but I level slow... thats my problem, I like to do alot of quests, missions, crafting, etc...

I'm not a disgrace, YOU are... The people that degrade others for they're choices, and try to act superior are the real dissapointments to the job as a whole...

Also kinda sad you say I'm a disgrace to Ninja, when the only Ninjutsu name you know of is Utsusemi... >_>

[Rakhir]

I don't care if you're level 75 already hocus - you shouldn't go around dissing other people for how they want to play. I got invited into a PT last night and then they realized my sub wasn't WAR. They freaked out and asked why I didn't have Utsetsumi yet. My reply was that I'm working on it and that its not an immediate need because I don't take the hits in battle. He didn't dismiss me from the group. We had a great time in Garliage chaining bats and beetles for near 200xp with every other one. I debuffed the bats and beetles for the black mage. Do I care if I'm tanking? No. As time kept going and we kept killing teh evil the leader was talking to me more and more about how I can't be effective with RDM as my sub. I already knew all of this. He never insulted me about my job combo, just told me I'd be better off as a NIN/WAR. Now, I know hes right, but thats not what I want to be. Don't tell me about how the game has been like this for 2 years+ because I already know that. You can flame me if you want, but I won't care. I'm staying my job and I'm leveling. I'm not one to care about getting to lvl 75 as fast as the next NIN. Sure, laugh at me for that. I level with my friends and people I know which aren't hard to come by.

[hocuspocus]

Originally posted by OtakuGod


Ninja wannabe?

No, I don't think so. Now by looking at your level I'm assuming its correct, and so in seeing that as a correct level, I'm also assuming you've leveld in Garlaige & Crawlers Nest. Now your gonna sit there with a straight face and tell me that effective pulling is not needed in those places?! Come on, we've all seen what happens when some half ass puller tries, and comes back with citadel bats, or wingrats in garlaige.

lol, dont suck and anyone can pull fine.

I have plenty gil actually, probably because I'm not blowing smoke up my own ass by buying Shiei and thinking I'm the games gift to tanks.

what do you offer your parties then? sounds like a whole lot of nothing.

No my friend, I'm not a newbie, I'm sure you started the same time as me, but I level slow... thats my problem, I like to do alot of quests, missions, crafting, etc...

yup i did.

I'm not a disgrace, YOU are... The people that degrade others for they're choices, and try to act superior are the real dissapointments to the job as a whole...

oh! im saying youre a waste to the class. not just a disgrace.

Also kinda sad you say I'm a disgrace to Ninja, when the only Ninjutsu name you know of is Utsusemi... >_> [/B]

eh? makes no sense.