If you could alter something about the Ninja..

[qweezy]

Originally posted by Mewnie
Who's the one that came into a thread that was, on the most part, civil and had healthy class disscussion, with this gem?

Tsubame was unhappy with the Ninja cause they aren't like the 'traditional' Ninjas? The Elvaan Legolas thing wasn't meant as an insult, it was a perfect example as to why you shouldn't expect this game to follow the normal rules when it comes to defining classes, races and gameplay. I always liked elves, but I hate the ones in this game. Did I go around asking for change to the Elvaan race so they could be the weak/agile race that lives on top of trees, the ones I like? No. I dealt with it, I picked a Human. So if you don't like how the current Ninja works, simple, pick another job. Your precious Vivid already said Nin/Thf works, so why dont you play that combo? Lol. That combo is sneaky enough to me, and deosn't require you to tank.

This thread was civil, until you came in:

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Originally posted by Mewnie
But I guess we can all follow your method and pull wild assumptions out of our ass.
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If anything you're the one that messed up the thread. I did not insult anyone until you started it .

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Originally posted by Mewnie
Of all the ninja I've PTed with, the ratio of shihei to other powders used is 20:1 on average, that tells me something right there...a ninja could probably get away with just utsumei ichi and ni all the way to 75, since that is all that's expected of them
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Originally posted by qweezy
They are doing what they do best. Maybe you should ask Rangers to put down thier bow cause all they do is shoot with thier bow and get away with it all the way to lvl 75, maybe you should ask the Monk to stop using his fist and use a sword cause he is using too much of his fist and he's PISSING you off! Maybe you should ask the Paladin to stop tanking cause he's always tanking and you don't like it! And maybe...maybe...
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Originally posted by Mewnie
But they're not talking about rangers, monks or paladins here. If you're happy with how ninja is, here's a cookie.
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?_?. No they aren't, but I am? I was expecting more from you then this silly rebuttal. Waste my time .

Whatever you wanna to say, say it Vivid. You act like your opinion is special or something.

[Kirk]

I think why the nin/war thing produces such a spirited debate is because of how strongly those who use nin/war feel about it. When you've actually tried it, and seen how awesome of a tank you can be, and still have extra damage and debuffs to throw on top of it, it will blow your mind! You wouldn;t want to change a thing about ninja in that aspect.

Hence, when someone posts how they would like ninja utsusemi toned down or that they should 'Not be tanks' the immediate reaction by us who love ninja tank is "What????? they either got to be crazy or stupid!! No way!" and we respond thusly which gets the other persons back up and voila: instant debate war.

So i dont want to fuel the topic, but just maybe wanted to give some reasoning behind why blink tankers in these arguments may come across as arrogant, condescending or impatient to those who disagree with the role. It's just that we have seen the potential of the nin/war combo and can see how exceptional it is and are maybe a little over zealous and perhaps a bit dogmatic with trying to convey that point to those who unfortunately may not like the idea or have not gotten to the level to try it for themselves yet.

So on behalf of all blink tanks, I apologize for seeming narrow minded and dogmatic : but we just love nin/war too much and wish that you would as well! ><

[Khaunshar]

Another reason why blink tanking in its current form is pretty much a thing of game balance is the lack of tanking classes. Once you go beyond 50, and usually before that already, aside from the (rare) blink tanking ninja there's 1 tank. Paladins.

Warriors with excellent gear and food CAN tank, and so can Samurai, but neither is very good at it, and certainly not good enough to really make a good fighting flow possible... it just sucks too much MP. So, if it wasnt for the ninja, there'd be yet another spot in the group taken up by 1 job.

Already, at level 57, I find that using a warrior/sam to tank is like using a rdm as main healer... it works, but its not even close to a real one.

[Denser]

Hello


IMO, a few things need to be done to the Ninja.

-H2H given an A- rating. (To compensate, MNK should be given A- in 2h Staff.)
-Throwing WS's. (For all classes that can use throwing.)
-Critical rate % passive.
-(Bit controversial this idea) : Utsusemi removed from Ichi and Ni in ninjitsu, and made into a 30sec active /JA, on a 5 min timer.

* This stops blink tanking, and makes it what SE kinda wants it to be, a last minute lifesaver.
* It also solves the huge expense on the player.

-Some kind of sneaking /JA, which gives the Nin (and/or) PT the effects of Sneak, Deo and Invis. Maybe 1min length on a 5 min timer.



I don't think this will be too overpowered


:spin:

[Zeenith]

I say Ninja climb: allows you to climb tree w/ spiked boots and lung on enemy! ^_^

[Tsubame]

Originally posted by Denser

-(Bit controversial this idea) : Utsusemi removed from Ichi and Ni in ninjitsu, and made into a 30sec active /JA, on a 5 min timer.

* This stops blink tanking, and makes it what SE kinda wants it to be, a last minute lifesaver.
* It also solves the huge expense on the player.
:spin:

That's actually a really good idea, due to the lack of any real JA for Ninja at the moment (Even mages have active job abilities)

I still think it could be done the same way via the 'traditional' Ninjitsu, but your way is actually a pretty good idea, plus it would be able to be thrown out faster, saving the Ninja right before that fatal hit lands.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Tsubame


That's actually a really good idea, due to the lack of any real JA for Ninja at the moment (Even mages have active job abilities)

I still think it could be done the same way via the 'traditional' Ninjitsu, but your way is actually a pretty good idea, plus it would be able to be thrown out faster, saving the Ninja right before that fatal hit lands.

Okay, I've explained why I, as a blink tank proponent, think Ninja's should tank. But I can't understant why you guys think they shouldn't. Could you explain a bit why you are so against it?

Also with the idea of making blink a /ja. You have to be careful that you are not dublicating abilities of other jobs. A 30 sec blink with a 5 min timer is the same as perfect dodge and invincible and they are 2-hr abilities.

[Tsubame]

I don't think Ninjas should tank mostly due to theme. Not just 'traditonal' Ninja, but because of what FF ninjas have always been. FF Ninjas were primarily support damage dealers (Not the best at it, but decent) with enfeebling ninjitsu types. Or you can take it from a traditonal type of view, where they are stealth assassins.

In either type, Ninjas would not be the kind trying to draw the attention of the enemy onto themselves. Besides, do the rest of their abilities seem to really be the tank type? Why dual-wield if they are tanks, why not a shield? Why have the elemental ninjitsu, to draw hate? Why have a passive that decreases their notice from the enemy, wouldn't they want passive that makes monsters more likely to hit them?

But I digress, I don't want to get this topic off onto another Nin/War debate .

For that JA blink, I think a good method would be to still have it block X attacks, but only last 30 seconds. So it might block 5 attacks still, but the images would wear off in 30 seconds if not used, with a 5 min recast timer.

[Kirk]

Ah now I see. So its the concept that you can't accept. Hmm, in that case I think its pretty futile wishing for ninja to change on that basis alone. SE made ninja like they are for a reason. Same way they made elves like they are for a reason, as Qweezy pointed out. Why only female Mithra and male Galka? We can only guess as to why, but as the saying goes... it is what it is. To argue any further or say that what already exisits is wrong would basically be arguing against the game developers and what they think is right. In the end its all up to them. The game is designed by the developers not the players. The most you can hope for is finding an aspect of the game that you like and play it, if there is an aspect you dont like, dont play it, if there are no aspects you like... well guess you dont play the game then :/

I'm not trying to be mean, just factual. Fact: Ninja <right now> is primarily a blink tank. You just have to accept it. The same way I will have to accept it, if SE ever decides to change ninja as how you propose it.

[TMPikachu]

giving ninjas A- hth rating... that's a great idea!

I'd go for ninja/monk without a doubt if that happened.

[Vivid]

qweezy, i never acted like my opinion was special. it's just not meant to be seen in this topic, it's highly personal and highly off-topic. nothing that would keep it on track. which is why i'd rather people PM me if they want my opinion. i never said any names either. so don't go around pulling strings. quit picking fights around here, we're all trying to end things... why don't you?

at this point, the toxic has gotten way out of control in this thread. i'd rather it be closed than have this bs go even further out there.

kiyo> please make a new topic, i really liked this thread.... and im sorry it's gone down hill.

:more stuff i edited in to make this post on topic:
maybe, to add some fuel to a debate, i should say this. the same way people are "close-minded" about nin/war, nin/war are "close-minded" about nin/thf's. i've played both. both have certain situations in which to be used. nin/war is a godly tank.. godly... it's insane how awesome they are at it. nin/thf is used for.. other purposes... like when you have a pld in the party. meh. i can still go either way, so not like it matters much...

oh wait! i don't want a debate :D. hmm... therefore... ninjas should be able to run like the gang in naruto! (for another example, check out the dark elves in lineage II). PEACE!

[tazirai]

closing this thread not informative anymore ..please start a new thread and keep it clean.

IF you cant be open minded and not flame ..dont post that simple.
share your views and opinions,if you cant respect a fellow poster,dont post.

remember agree to disagree, doesnt mean im right your're wrong be the bigger person.