Ninjas as damage dealing melee job

[Aldo]

Well my #1 tank, as I stated before, was always a war/sam, at lv60+. Before this I didn't even party with warriors so it was fair game between those 3, usually I picked paladin, for same reasons i stated before. samurai sub is the #1 sub for warriors, and rarely you will ever find one not subbing it beyond lv60. Their role changes somewhat, they can renkei decently with Raging Crush and start off battle with Sheild Break.

On the nin topic, yes mages will cast status effects, but they do not always hit the enemy/last very long. nin support assures many status effects are always inflicted on the enemy. In addition some status effects such as defence down, cannot be cast through magic. While a warrior can use this in a break, it has a possibility of connecting with each swipe of a nin's katana. still, these are only trivial things that thelp the party other than blinking nonstop. There are certain situations where monsters use very powerful moves, that could easily kill a paladin (ex: bark tarantulas use sickle slash which can do 1000+ damage to paladins, bats can use jetstream, which does alot of damage as well), in these situations having a copy image absorb all damage could be very beneficial to the party.

I would still prefer a warrior than a ninja, but under some circumstances, i could see where nin could be more desireable than the latter.

[Kirk]

My 2 gil.

I think from the discussion it can be sumized that Ninja tanks can be useful but ultimately can be replaced by a more efficient, less expensive and more common job comination.

So where does this leave us poor <and I emphasize poor> > young Ninja hopefuls? :confused:

Hopefully right where you left us! Striving to become a Ninja just because we want to!

I just want to give nuff respect to Aldo and Ajg126 for their experience and insight. But lets not forget this _is_ a game afterall and people play it to have fun. And some people get that fun from playing what they want to play, not by playing what is most effective. I only say this because it seemed this thread was starting to sound like it was trying to discourage people from playing Ninja.

Fair warning is fine, but can you guys supply any positive points about playing Ninja that might encourage younger players who really want to play Ninja?

Thanks guys!

[BobMeisterLlama]

Hmmm...while all this input comparing Ninja to other tanks is great and all, I think the purpose of this thread was to ask whether a Melee Ninja is viable in any way.

[TherosIrn]

it is the best tank..

ninja/warrior using blink is the best tank in the game hands down, for hate they have dmg(although it is lower then others dmg) and provoke. Blink then does its work and out deos a paladin/warrior tank..

Didn't you mention that with that ninja tanking in your party you had "more then enough mana to heal?", that is exactly what you SHOULD look for in a party.. a tank requiring little mana to heal... allowing CONSTANT pulling and fast exp...

if i misinterpreted what you said sorry but it seems to me that you were just bored because the ninja tank didn't need alot of healing^^

[Aldo]

I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from playing the job, as it has been alot of fun for me and that is one of the reasons I visit this part of the forum, to get others insight and see if I can clarify anything. PLD NIN and WAR are tanks, that cannot be argued, and they all have unique qualities that set them apart form eachother, it all depends on what the leader decides to makeup really.

[BobMeisterLlama]

They should put a disclaimer on the Ninja Forums. "Anything you post here will immediately turn into a Tank discussion."

[Loc]

For some reason, I don't really think ninja was meant to be a tank, I think people just take advantage of blink, casting it over and over when maybe it was only supposed to be used sparingly. When I think of ninja, the last thing I think of is a tank, I think of them as a "behind the line" stealthy damage dealer.

It would be nice if they could possibly change ninja some, perhaps give them alot more attack power, while making blink not quite as powerful, because I'd really love to play as a ninja.....but because it is sooooo gimpy and all it has is blink....it kinda discourages me a little.

[Vivid]

Let me clear up some issues, and hopefully manage to answer all the questions here:

As for the topic's questions, ninjas as damage dealing melee job, it would definately be in your liking to sub thief. Of course, even with the thief sub job, your ninja will not be doing as much damage as, say, a war/mnk. We're weak and quick, but still, even in the long run, you will not contribute a whole lot to the damage factor of the party.

However, there is a way to -maybe- make up for it. It won't be in blink bags, but it'll still be rather expensive. What you'll want to do is buy all the possible elemental ninjutsu powder that you can. During battle, you'll concentrate on using sneak attack (sneak + trick when you're 60+) effectively, and then blast the monster with level 2 ninjutsu (this is 40+) as much as you can. This is the best way to properly title yourself as a damage dealing ninja.

Hope this clears that question up.

As for the other popular debate. NIN/WAR is definately an awesome tank. Bar-none, end-game, done. And yes, being a ninja (when not in a set pt with understanding friends) revolves on your ability to control the income of gil and outgoing of blink bags wisely. Without blink bags/war sub, you are an outcast, simple as that.

To the brave ninjas: nin/thf, nin/etc., good luck to you, the road is long and hard. My only advice is to be vigilant.

-Viv

[BobMeisterLlama]

So NIN/THF uses sneak attack and lvl 2 elemental ninjitsu. Before lvl 40 would you use lvl 1 elemental ninjitsu? Haha, i know it seems like a stupid question, but maybe there's a diff strategy before you get sneak atack and the lvl 2's.

[Aaramis]

Ok, back on topic here :

I think a couple of people are kind of looking for a dual wield combination that isn't forced into a tank role (via blink), but can still contribute to the dps of a party with their melee.
So if you kept NIN main, which combo(s) seems to work for dps?
- /WAR (passive atk up, berserk)
- /THF (sneak/trick atk)
- /RDM (En- buffs + debuffs)
- /DRK (passive atk up, darkness)

Or would it be best to forget NIN main altogether if you wanted melee dps, and go with THF/NIN or WAR/NIN (dual axes)?

[tongyang]

Originally posted by Kirk
But lets not forget this _is_ a game afterall and people play it to have fun. And some people get that fun from playing what they want to play, not by playing what is most effective. I only say this because it seemed this thread was starting to sound like it was trying to discourage people from playing Ninja.

I think posts like this are all good, but one thing that needs to make clear to people that don't play with so called "more effective job combos" - If you don't play with conventional job combos, be prepared to be a leader of the party all the time, and don't expect people to invite you to parties. And even if you're a leader, expect people to remember your name and may not join your parties if you ask again the next day

There are many ways to have fun, but since exp is very hard to come by at later levels, you would want the best job combos as possible. And when you're goofing off with your friends later, you can be whatever you want and have fun at the same time.

[Kirk]

Originally posted by tongyang


I think posts like this are all good, but one thing that needs to make clear to people that don't play with so called "more effective job combos" - If you don't play with conventional job combos, be prepared to be a leader of the party all the time, and don't expect people to invite you to parties. And even if you're a leader, expect people to remember your name and may not join your parties if you ask again the next day

There are many ways to have fun, but since exp is very hard to come by at later levels, you would want the best job combos as possible. And when you're goofing off with your friends later, you can be whatever you want and have fun at the same time.

Just so you dont get the wrong idea, My statement was not referring to trying to play say a wtm/drk and expecting to get to level 70. There are of course combo's like that which any sensible pt leader will stay away from like the plague. What I was referring to was playing a nin/war as opposed to a conventional tank like a pally. Nin/war is probably about as effective a nin combo as you can get. My point was if you really, really want to play a nin/war dont compremise by switching to pal/war just because its easier.

Your statement of having to be leader is correct though. To get a decent pt that can take full advantage of ninja blink ability you almost _have_ to be leader. Fortunaly I enjoy being leader and probably many other ninja's do as well. After all, if they didn;t they probably wouldn't be playing ninja in the first place