Probably a Stupid Idea

[Dyft]

Hey all,

My friends and I have a 3 man static party 1SCH 1DRG and myself. I Am here to ask you all what you think about me running a MNK as the tank? I have already ruled out NIN and PLD. We are more out to have fun then get to a specific level or xp/hr rate. We are real life friends and all work together. We do many events as well as high end content so we have all been playing for a while. None of us is interested in playing a tank but as DRG is MY main job (not my job for this party) I couldent help but support my SAM buddy who decided to play DRG for our 3 man static. Infact I have to admit that I'm slightly impressed as he based his entire decision of playing a DRG from playing with me as DRG. My SCH Friend has just decided that SCH is 100% for him and that it is his new MAIN Job even though its MANY MANY levels below his highest level job lol. This being said I want to play a job that can take the hits while still being able to fight back, When I say fight back I'm not talking about NIN melee (which SUCKS at level 45, Remember I'm coming from DRG). I got to thinking that WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back when I started playing this game MNKS used to actually tank a lot of the time, and if I recall correctly WARs were the perfered tanks. Anyhow, I know its not even close to an optimal setup now a days but like I said NIN dmg is rather lackluster from my standpoint (level 45 currently). I suppose at 50 it picks up some with double attack, however I think I may be stuck on this MNK thing.

As it stands my MNK is currently 31, Over the years of playing this game I have aquired and managed to hold on to the following Items for my MNK,

Fumas (3% haste boots)
Purple/Brown Belt (4/8% haste iirc)
Cross-counters(I'm told one of the best weapons up to level 75 for mnk?)
Wyvern Earring (5% haste when subbing DRG)
Insert Namehere( the +15 atk -0 evasion gloves.... (was after them for my NIN and i dident want the -5 evasion ones) )
The level 40ish or 50ish Counter Pants (no clue where or how i obtained these lol)
Empress Hairpin(+10 eva +some other stats)
PCC(+10 ACC)
2x Woodsmans rings (+5acc -5eva each)
The Level 33 +3 acc ring
The Level 49 +4 acc +1 store tp cure amneasia ring (never can remember how to spell it, starts with an E tho)


Needless to say, ever since i managed to obtain the Cross-counters, Ive been dieing to use them

Anyhow Ive read the monk guides in the past and ive always read about how expensive monks get in the mid levels... At this point in my "career" (play on the term Jobs used for classes) I think that I have most of the items in question.

How would a MNK fair as a TANK vs T/VTs? At level 31 as Mnk/Dnc (soloing) I seem to be able to take on EMs/Ts without too much hassle (Currently using the level 25 +2 Gi set Pants included as I REFUSE to wear subligar (male elvaan) )

How effective is +counter gear... my understanding has always been +1 counter = 1% counter.. is this correct? Is there a cap on counter? I know +7 counter is available by level 50 (which from MY understanding of how it works would land me at 17% counter rate) If i were able to get this up to say 25%ish would it be worth the effort?

If I CAN infact tank with my MNK for this low man party, Would I be doing more DMG then a tanking PLD or NIN? would it be worth the extra MP cost? We do have a SCH so when he got 35+ he would get sublimation which should greatly improve his MP longevity.

Thanks for any help and or advice on this matter.

[Armando]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

You should be ok against Ts (not VTs; don't see why you'd want to fight VTs though) with a strong Evasion set. You'd likely be doing more damage than a PLD or NIN. You'll likely be forced to use /WAR for hate though. /DNC doesn't count, because while you could tank through healing, you surrender all your damage and at that point might as well be PLD or NIN. However if your friend is DRG and has /WHM or /BLU and you avoid mobs like Spiders you could probably fight indefinitely by exploiting Healing Breath.

A more rounded-out alternative is WAR/BLU, which can Berserk and use Meat food at will because it already comes with Provoke and has Cocoon for Defense. But if you don't have BLU levelled then you might as well just go MNK.

[Ynot]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

Last night i partyed with some of my real life friends mnk,drg,whm,blm(me) and we were in kazam taking down IT crawlers
my mnk friend did the tanking and we were ok... a few deaths (mostly the whm for using too much cure 3 (i never died lol ) but i still think dieing aside we had a hell of a time and lots of fun hope this helps alittle

[Dyft]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

It does help. The question it really leaves me with is: Was the WHM casting so many cure3s to keep the MNK alive? or was he just cure bombing (not using cure 2s even or regen etc)?

As far as the MNK/DNC goes.. that was for soloing.. I would /WAR for our party of course I only spoke of it as i was describing where I was at with my MNK and i was using /DNC so i wanted to make sure that was known as well. For the simple fact that a Mnk/War wouldent have been soloing the EMs/Ts like I was... were on the other hand /DNC would not be the best for dmg output by any means.

[Takelli]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

Probably from cure bombing. Also count in they where killing IT mobs that give slow, poison and have cocoon which increases their defense which make it harder to kill them.

Monk gets Chakra at later levels, it doesnt do much, but it will help cut down on my comsuption a bit. They also get Guard, and counter which negates some ofthe damage, and even Dodge which gives +15 (?) evasion. With War sub, they get double attack, and defender at lvl 25 which can help pump out the damage, and help take less with the dodge on as well for those times when your running low on hp. So, with a haste/evasion set up, I don't see why not a monk cant be a viable tank eariler in the game (Even later in game) for a three man party fighting T monsters. Also, eating def, or evasion food can help as well.

[Armando]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

Part of the issue is that he wants to do damage while tanking, so doing stuff like using Defender is out of the question. He might not be all that comfortable with his damage using Defense food, either. It all depends on what he considers to be low damage, which is kind of what makes it hard to give him suggestions since in practice no tank just sits there doing crap damage when the mob is only T.

[Takelli]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

Yea, I forgot about that he wants to do damage as well. A Pld can be a DD as well as a tank at later lvls though.

Isnt there def food and atk food out there some where?

When I said having haste/evasion gear because a Monk already has a decent attack speed. And their damage is already a decent number by itself. With the haste gear, their attacks will be faster while taking less hits with the evasion gear/dodge. Defender will just be an option for when hes being hit too much and the sch cant heal fast enough. Monk is more of a DoT DD, so it really does depend on what his deffenition of "high dmg" really is though. I was just saying what I thought he could do.

[Armando]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

Isnt there def food and atk food out there some where?

None that's attainable. Otherwise all the PLDs would be eating it right now.

Haste gear is good but it won't help him defensively and he won't be seeing much Haste gear at low levels except for MNK-specific no-brainer choices, so it's not like there's any point to recommending it. It's kinda just stating the obvious. It's not like MNK's attack speed has any relevance to Haste's usefulness either.

PLDs can do some pretty decent damage at lower levels as well, when actually get it through their thick, thick skulls that Defense and VIT aren't the only stats that matter to tanking. But, again, this whole "decent damage" business is incredibly relative.

[Takelli]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

PLDs can do some pretty decent damage at lower levels as well, when actually get it through their thick, thick skulls that Defense and VIT aren't the only stats that matter to tanking. But, again, this whole "decent damage" business is incredibly relative.

I agree with you there.

I did think that all the plds needed was just Def, Vit, and Mp to tank. But they also need some way to put out some damage so that they can keep hate by dealing damage as well, rather than just healing it.

Has anyone ever done tests for Monk tanks with viable gear in a full 6 man party. A monk with decent eva, and haste gear with a dancer in the party could be viable. But I am not to sure about it.

[Celeal]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

If MNK is the only choice, I would say MNK/DNC, since it has Animated Flourish (a lesser Provoke), Desperate Flourish (Gravity, in case the mob runs to your SCH), Waltz of curing, Evasion Bonus Job Trait for evasion, Quickstep to lower mobs evasion...

For tanking you need to have tools for situations which you need to at the top of hate list *now* or stop the bleeding *now* or you need to save your friend *now*... tools that MNK is lacking as a tank.

[Dyft]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

When I say decant damage, I dont necessarily mean big hits... my monk is hitting for 50-80ish(usually closer to 50 but some have gone as high as 80ish) a fist on Ts while my DRG friend is hitting at about 100-130... I am more then happy with this as i hit 2x per each one of his.. not to mention I'll be getting double attack and kick attacks at 50 & 51 (/war).

You are very correct that "decant" damage is subjective, however its also not..... decant generally means middle of the road or better... there are 20 jobs in ffxi... so in theory if MNK lands at number 10 or better they could easily qualify as decant. To clear things up however I would say that any DD can put up at least decant numbers even while tanking if geared right.

I tried NIN but at 45 it honestly took me ~3 minutes to solo a T mob (granted I'm 5 levels away from double attack with /war but usually solo im /dnc for longevity) but THAT is what i dont like.... Sure they can get a party pretty fast and they can tank plenty well. I dont always have time to get in a party though and I like to be able to pop on and knock out a few FoVs with xp ring and NPC. As a NIN I dident enjoy it. PLD/NIN dual wielding with shadows and cures was rather painful as well.

Last night I took my MNK from 31-34 so 1 more level for Chakra. But I can tell you I felt a lot more powerful doing MNK 31-34 then NIN 45 /shrug.. keep in mind this is nothing more then a personal feeling/observation with the way I play. I am in no way saying MNK is better then NIN or vice versa. We actually havent gotten our 3man together as MNK SCH DRG yet as our work schedules have been hell but hopefully I will have a report on how that went soon.

[ShepardG]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

None that's attainable. Otherwise all the PLDs would be eating it right now.

Ummm Rabbit Pie.

As far as monk tanking goes, sure you can do it, and if that's how you and your friends have fun, then knock that shit out of the park.

How would a MNK fair as a TANK vs T/VTs? At level 31 as Mnk/Dnc (soloing) I seem to be able to take on EMs/Ts without too much hassle (Currently using the level 25 +2 Gi set Pants included as I REFUSE to wear subligar (male elvaan) )
It wouldn't be as good as a pld or a nin.

How effective is +counter gear... my understanding has always been +1 counter = 1% counter.. is this correct? Is there a cap on counter? I know +7 counter is available by level 50 (which from MY understanding of how it works would land me at 17% counter rate) If i were able to get this up to say 25%ish would it be worth the effort?
Nah you'd be sacrificing to much in other areas to make your counter (which isn't something you would want to rely on anyway) skill worth while. even with +30% counter

If I CAN infact tank with my MNK for this low man party, Would I be doing more DMG then a tanking PLD or NIN? would it be worth the extra MP cost? We do have a SCH so when he got 35+ he would get sublimation which should greatly improve his MP longevity.
Um yeah, you'd be doing more dmg, but your probably gonna at the most get chain 1 maybe 2 if you get some low Toughs first. But you should have "Fun" and ya'll will probably get to 75 by the time ffxiv comes out. (sorry had to through in some sarcasm, pay it no mind)

If your going for "Fun factor" then nobody on these forums can tell YOU what is fun to YOU. I enjoy having fun in game, but I try to be the best most effecient player possible. That's my idea of fun, sitting around WG waiting for party is lame, and i'll go kill EP/DC on my 42 sch/nin solo, but that's just me. You and your buds having fun seem to be the most important thing to you, and that's awesome, don't worry about dmg, effectiveness, drk tanking, monk tanking. Play how you like. This game has been out the better part of a decade. It's clearly defined what works the best in a situation, in most cases.
Key being "The best", alot of things work. but they aren't the best.

Maybe i'm sorta rambling but hopefully you can understand my reasoning...if your about having fun, then you don't need us telling you that your means of having fun are "socially acceptable"

[Celeal]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

When I say decant damage, I dont necessarily mean big hits... my monk is hitting for 50-80ish(usually closer to 50 but some have gone as high as 80ish) a fist on Ts while my DRG friend is hitting at about 100-130... I am more then happy with this as i hit 2x per each one of his.. not to mention I'll be getting double attack and kick attacks at 50 & 51 (/war).

You are very correct that "decant" damage is subjective, however its also not..... decant generally means middle of the road or better... there are 20 jobs in ffxi... so in theory if MNK lands at number 10 or better they could easily qualify as decant. To clear things up however I would say that any DD can put up at least decant numbers even while tanking if geared right.

I tried NIN but at 45 it honestly took me ~3 minutes to solo a T mob (granted I'm 5 levels away from double attack with /war but usually solo im /dnc for longevity) but THAT is what i dont like.... Sure they can get a party pretty fast and they can tank plenty well. I dont always have time to get in a party though and I like to be able to pop on and knock out a few FoVs with xp ring and NPC. As a NIN I dident enjoy it. PLD/NIN dual wielding with shadows and cures was rather painful as well.

Last night I took my MNK from 31-34 so 1 more level for Chakra. But I can tell you I felt a lot more powerful doing MNK 31-34 then NIN 45 /shrug.. keep in mind this is nothing more then a personal feeling/observation with the way I play. I am in no way saying MNK is better then NIN or vice versa. We actually havent gotten our 3man together as MNK SCH DRG yet as our work schedules have been hell but hopefully I will have a report on how that went soon.

At level 40~ish, a NIN can bring down T mobs very quickly with elemental wheel (:Ni nuke every 2~3 seconds, six nukes per cycle).

Even without gear properly, a level 45 NIN/WAR in Crawler Nest can nuke for 80 dmg each cast against those VT~IT Crawlers, while nuking every 2 ~ 4 seconds, swing both Katana between nukes.

[Ynot]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

wow alot of posts since mine
ill jsut answer the cure boming question then i read all the other post

for sure cure bomming... i sub whm and when she would die i took over i had no issue going from cure 1 to cure 2 and back again no one die wile i was dong that and the "tank" kept the hate i think you could have fun in any combo if the team is good togeather

[Armando]

Re: Probably a Stupid Idea

Has anyone ever done tests for Monk tanks with viable gear in a full 6 man party. A monk with decent eva, and haste gear with a dancer in the party could be viable. But I am not to sure about it.

Evasion won't help you much against EXP mobs; even NINs fare better gearing for offence than Evasion, and NINs have better Evasion than MNKs. Counter's effectiveness also takes a hit if the MNK's hit rate isn't capped, which will be the case for a tanking MNK, so Defence food is pretty necessary to mitigate damage. At least Boost gives them a small hate spike every 15 secs.

It COULD be done, but it wouldn't be pretty. A PLD or NIN would fare better, for sure. A trio is a whole different ball game though.

Ummm Rabbit Pie.

At 170k a stack, that hardly counts as "attainable."

If MNK is the only choice, I would say MNK/DNC, since it has Animated Flourish (a lesser Provoke), Desperate Flourish (Gravity, in case the mob runs to your SCH), Waltz of curing, Evasion Bonus Job Trait for evasion, Quickstep to lower mobs evasion...

For tanking you need to have tools for situations which you need to at the top of hate list *now* or stop the bleeding *now* or you need to save your friend *now*... tools that MNK is lacking as a tank.

You gotta take into consideration that doing damage is a priority for Dyft, and /DNC gets in the way of that. The party will also start at low levels from what I understand, which means he won't have a lot of those tools at first.

Dyft: Any job's offence takes a strong hit when it's relying completely on Utsusemi to stay alive; it's not particular to NIN. Even a MNK/NIN's damage takes a hit when they need to constantly cast Utsusemi.

But like I said, if the DRG has /WHM or /BLU or even /RDM, with Tab Refresh he should be able to shoulder most of the healing and let the party chain without downtime as long as you steer clear from mobs like Pugils and Spiders (which you really wouldn't want to fight either way.)