[TEST] Counter Data

[Armando]

This test was made to look into the claim that Counter is affected by the user's hit rate (i.e. lower hit rate = less counters.) Each trial was conducted against the same crab, without interruptions. For the second trial, Blinding Potion's effect was kept up at all times. Target mobs were Bigclaw in Toraimarai Canal (49-52).

Stats, etc

70PLD/21MNK
STR: 70+5
DEX: 52+6
AGI: 40-2
Staff Skill: 162-163 Skill
Attack: 245-246
Accuracy gear: +25
Evasion Skill: 212
Evasion gear: -26
Parry Skill: 169
Guard Skill: 29

Test 1: High (95%) hit rate
EP Bigclaw (Lv.52)

Raw data

H = Landed hit
M = Miss
C = Critical hit
P = Parried hit
X = Counter
MMMHH CMHMM HMXHH
MMHHM HHHMM HXMHM CHM
PHHMH MPMHH HMMHP HHPMH
HMPHP MXHHX HHXMH HHM
HHHMH HXHHP MPPMH M
MMHXH MMMPH MMMHH
MMMMH HMPMP MHHHM HHHMP
HHMMM HHHHM HHHMH HMM
HPHHP MHMHC HHMHH P
MMHMM MCMHM HMMHM
MHMHM HMHHM HHMMH HH
HHHMM MHMMH HCXMM MHH
CMHHM MCHHH HHHMH HM
MHHMM CMHMH HMMH
HHHMH PHHMM HMHMM MM
MMXHH HHHMM HMXCM HHM
MPMHM MMHPH HMHH
MPMXM HPHHM
HMHMH MHHXM HPMHH HM
HHMHP MMMMH HCHMH MM
HMPHM MHHMH HMXMH M
XMMMH PHHMH MHHMM MHHHH
HMHMM HMMMM HPMXM HM
HHHHH XHMHM MMHXH HHH
HHHHP CCHMX MHMM
HHMHM HHCHM HHMHM MMHM
MMMHH HHMMH MHHHH HMC
HMMHH HMMMH MHMHH
HHHHM MHHHH MMHMX HHHH
HHMPX HHMHM PMMHM XX
HHHMM MHHHH MHCMM HPH
MHHMM MXHMP MHHHH
MHCMP HHHHH HCHMM HHHH
PHHMM HPHHH HM
HMMMM HHMMH HMM
XHHHM MPHHH HHXHH HMH
MHMXM XMHHM PPHMH C
HHHXH HMHPH MMMMX
MXPHX MMCXH HCH
HMHHH CPMHM MHMHM PHM
HXHHM MMMMX MMHHM M
HPHHM HXHHP HHH
XXPHM MHMMH HMMXM
MXMMM MMHHM HHHPH MH
MHHMH HMHHH

Summary:
Total attack rounds: 731
Landed Hits: 370
Misses: 277
Mob's Crits: 21/370 (5.68%)
Parries: 45
Counters: 39/409 (9.54%)


Test 2: Blinding Potions
TW Bigclaw (49/50/51)

Raw data

MMMMH HP
MMMHH HMHHH HHHHH MHH
HMMHH HHHMM HHMHH MMH
MHHHH HHMPH MMHHC HM
HMXMH PMCHH MMMHH HMHM
HHHHM CHMHM MHMHH
XHHXM CMHMM HHMH
MMMHM HMHHM MHMMM MMH
HHMMH HMMHP MXHHH
PMMHM CPHHH HHHMM
MMMMM HHHHH HHHMH
HHMHM MHHMH HMHMM PMM
MMHMM HHMMH MHHHM PHPHH
PMMPH MHHMM HHHPH HH
HHHHM HXHMH MMHMM
HHMHH MMMHH HHMHM MX
PCHHM CCMHM CHMH
MCHMH MM
MHMPM HMMHH CMM
HHHHM MHCHH HMHMH M
HMHHH HHHHM HHMMP
HMMMM MHHMM CMM
HHMMM MPHMM HMMCH PM
HMMMH HMMHH HHHMH PMH
MMHHH HPMHH MHPMM MHHMX
HHHHM HHHPM HHHMM HH
HHMPH MHHHM M
XMMHM HMHHH MMHHP MHHHH
HHHXH MHHPM HPHHM M
MHHHM HCHMM M
HHMPH HMMHH MHHHM H
HCMMM MMMMH HXMCH H
HXPHM HMHMH MHMHP MMMH
HMCHM MHHHH PHMHM HMM
HMHMM MMMHH H
MHMHH MHHMH HHMXP HMHH
MHMMM HHHHH HPHMM HM
MMMHH HHHMM MHHMM MHMH
HHHHH HMHHM MMMM
MHHMH MHMHH PHPMM H
HMMHH HMHHC MHMMP MHHP
HHHMH HMHHP HHHMH MHX
HPMMM M
HMHMH PHPHH MHHHH H
MMMMM HHHMM MMMMM MHHMM
M

Summary:
Total attack rounds: 711
Landed Hits: 373
Misses: 286
Mob's Crits: 19/373 (5.09%)
Parries: 39
Counters: 13/386 (3.37%)

The difference is as clear as night and day. It seems the base Counter rate is 10%. I was expecting 2% counter rate (because of the 20% hit rate floor) on the second test, but it could be that Signet is giving me a hit rate bonus because of the 18-20 level difference. I'll have to come back later with some more Blinding Potions and see if my hit rate is ~30% on them instead of the expected 20%. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that Counter does depend on hit rate.

[Restlesstornado]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

Great data, always wanted to test that even though I had never got around to it! Please keep us informed with any new information~

[Ziero]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

So long story short...acc boosts counter?

[Restlesstornado]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

So long story short...acc boosts counter?

From what the tests show, yes~ SO Counterstance is better stacked with Focus!

[Armando]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

It's not quite so much that Accuracy boosts counter, as it is the fact that you can miss your Counters. And if you miss your Counter, it's not just damage you're losing, you're also losing an avoided attack. I'd assume the chance of missing your Counter is the same as the chance that you'd miss any other hit. But I'll have to parse my hit rate on those crabs first.

Yet another reason why WAR/MNKs that don't Shield Break, fail.

[Malacite]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

How do you figure signet gave you a bonus to acc? The signet boost against EP-EM is Defense and Evade.

[Armando]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

Because Blinding Potions are absurdly powerful. With 251 Sword Skill and 52 DEX, I can chug one down and I'd still need an extra 4 Acc to make a Tiny Mandragora check Low Evasion. Wiki reports the Blind effect as -256. I haven't been able to confirm this myself, but if it is -256, that'd make the Tiny Mandragora's evasion 9, which seems about right.

A Lv.52 crab has 169. My Accuracy was 163 + 58*3/4 + 25 = 231. The Blinding Potions should've dropped my Accuracy down to 0 or 1, whichever the floor is for that stat.

In addition to that, not too long ago I was in Castle Oztroja. Wanted to do some research on WS with additional effects (especially Stun) and whether they could proc on "extra" hits (DA, offhand, etc.) So I figured the easiest way to go about it was to use mobs with Utsusemi. Long story short, I popped a Blinding Potion against a Yagudo Herald (32-36) and I noticed that I was hardly missing, even though I should've whiffed like a madman.
------------------------------------------
I'm definitely getting a bonus to my hit rate. Just went out and clobbered a Lv.50 Bigclaw with 158 Evasion, with Signet on. My hit rate was 62/150, 41.33%. The one from test two was probably Lv.51.

[Lmnop]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

I has a feeling this isn't the first time we've seen some accuracy-boosting factor affecting acc floor as well...


Hmm.

[TheBridge]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

This test was made to look into the claim that Counter is affected by the user's hit rate (i.e. lower hit rate = less counters.) Each trial was conducted against the same crab, without interruptions. For the second trial, Blinding Potion's effect was kept up at all times. Target mobs were Bigclaw in Toraimarai Canal (49-52).

Stats, etc

70PLD/21MNK
STR: 70+5
DEX: 52+6
AGI: 40-2
Staff Skill: 162-163 Skill
Attack: 245-246
Accuracy gear: +25
Evasion Skill: 212
Evasion gear: -26
Parry Skill: 169
Guard Skill: 29

Test 1: High (95%) hit rate
EP Bigclaw (Lv.52)

Raw data

H = Landed hit
M = Miss
C = Critical hit
P = Parried hit
X = Counter
MMMHH CMHMM HMXHH
MMHHM HHHMM HXMHM CHM
PHHMH MPMHH HMMHP HHPMH
HMPHP MXHHX HHXMH HHM
HHHMH HXHHP MPPMH M
MMHXH MMMPH MMMHH
MMMMH HMPMP MHHHM HHHMP
HHMMM HHHHM HHHMH HMM
HPHHP MHMHC HHMHH P
MMHMM MCMHM HMMHM
MHMHM HMHHM HHMMH HH
HHHMM MHMMH HCXMM MHH
CMHHM MCHHH HHHMH HM
MHHMM CMHMH HMMH
HHHMH PHHMM HMHMM MM
MMXHH HHHMM HMXCM HHM
MPMHM MMHPH HMHH
MPMXM HPHHM
HMHMH MHHXM HPMHH HM
HHMHP MMMMH HCHMH MM
HMPHM MHHMH HMXMH M
XMMMH PHHMH MHHMM MHHHH
HMHMM HMMMM HPMXM HM
HHHHH XHMHM MMHXH HHH
HHHHP CCHMX MHMM
HHMHM HHCHM HHMHM MMHM
MMMHH HHMMH MHHHH HMC
HMMHH HMMMH MHMHH
HHHHM MHHHH MMHMX HHHH
HHMPX HHMHM PMMHM XX
HHHMM MHHHH MHCMM HPH
MHHMM MXHMP MHHHH
MHCMP HHHHH HCHMM HHHH
PHHMM HPHHH HM
HMMMM HHMMH HMM
XHHHM MPHHH HHXHH HMH
MHMXM XMHHM PPHMH C
HHHXH HMHPH MMMMX
MXPHX MMCXH HCH
HMHHH CPMHM MHMHM PHM
HXHHM MMMMX MMHHM M
HPHHM HXHHP HHH
XXPHM MHMMH HMMXM
MXMMM MMHHM HHHPH MH
MHHMH HMHHH

Summary:
Total attack rounds: 731
Landed Hits: 370
Misses: 277
Mob's Crits: 21/370 (5.68%)
Parries: 45
Counters: 39/409 (9.54%)


Test 2: Blinding Potions
TW Bigclaw (49/50/51)

Raw data

MMMMH HP
MMMHH HMHHH HHHHH MHH
HMMHH HHHMM HHMHH MMH
MHHHH HHMPH MMHHC HM
HMXMH PMCHH MMMHH HMHM
HHHHM CHMHM MHMHH
XHHXM CMHMM HHMH
MMMHM HMHHM MHMMM MMH
HHMMH HMMHP MXHHH
PMMHM CPHHH HHHMM
MMMMM HHHHH HHHMH
HHMHM MHHMH HMHMM PMM
MMHMM HHMMH MHHHM PHPHH
PMMPH MHHMM HHHPH HH
HHHHM HXHMH MMHMM
HHMHH MMMHH HHMHM MX
PCHHM CCMHM CHMH
MCHMH MM
MHMPM HMMHH CMM
HHHHM MHCHH HMHMH M
HMHHH HHHHM HHMMP
HMMMM MHHMM CMM
HHMMM MPHMM HMMCH PM
HMMMH HMMHH HHHMH PMH
MMHHH HPMHH MHPMM MHHMX
HHHHM HHHPM HHHMM HH
HHMPH MHHHM M
XMMHM HMHHH MMHHP MHHHH
HHHXH MHHPM HPHHM M
MHHHM HCHMM M
HHMPH HMMHH MHHHM H
HCMMM MMMMH HXMCH H
HXPHM HMHMH MHMHP MMMH
HMCHM MHHHH PHMHM HMM
HMHMM MMMHH H
MHMHH MHHMH HHMXP HMHH
MHMMM HHHHH HPHMM HM
MMMHH HHHMM MHHMM MHMH
HHHHH HMHHM MMMM
MHHMH MHMHH PHPMM H
HMMHH HMHHC MHMMP MHHP
HHHMH HMHHP HHHMH MHX
HPMMM M
HMHMH PHPHH MHHHH H
MMMMM HHHMM MMMMM MHHMM
M

Summary:
Total attack rounds: 711
Landed Hits: 373
Misses: 286
Mob's Crits: 19/373 (5.09%)
Parries: 39
Counters: 13/386 (3.37%)

The difference is as clear as night and day. It seems the base Counter rate is 10%. I was expecting 2% counter rate (because of the 20% hit rate floor) on the second test, but it could be that Signet is giving me a hit rate bonus because of the 18-20 level difference. I'll have to come back later with some more Blinding Potions and see if my hit rate is ~30% on them instead of the expected 20%. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that Counter does depend on hit rate.

Flawed test its not pretty clear from your test. I already know it to be true, but your testing is flawed. You don't show where you eliminated all other possible variables.

Also what wiki "team" are you on. I see an account on ffxiclopedia with the same name, is that you? Thats just a joe average member on ffxiclopedia. 1st impression of you reading your threads here is you want to pass yourself off as some kind of authority. I ran into your threads here by google search for something unrelated.

[Ameroth]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

I'll let Armando defend him/herself but who the hell are you and why should any of us care what you're ranting on about?

[nanatsu]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

Flawed test its not pretty clear from your test. I already know it to be true, but your testing is flawed. You don't show where you eliminated all other possible variables.

Also what wiki "team" are you on. I see an account on ffxiclopedia with the same name, is that you? Thats just a joe average member on ffxiclopedia. 1st impression of you reading your threads here is you want to pass yourself off as some kind of authority. I ran into your threads here by google search for something unrelated.

It's more like we consider him to be an intelligent and well informed player. I've never heard Armando try to pass himself off as anything but a guy who likes to know stuff and do tests. So your comment is unwarranted.

[Truece]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

Flawed test its not pretty clear from your test. I already know it to be true, but your testing is flawed. You don't show where you eliminated all other possible variables.

Also what wiki "team" are you on. I see an account on ffxiclopedia with the same name, is that you? Thats just a joe average member on ffxiclopedia. 1st impression of you reading your threads here is you want to pass yourself off as some kind of authority. I ran into your threads here by google search for something unrelated.

lol @ your first post ever, on ffxionline, flaming Armando.

Although, I can see from the plentiful arguments which you presented how Armando's testing is flawed...

[MrMageo]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

The bridge is a 1 time poster, so I wouldnt worry what he has to say. (unless its a sock puppet). Good test armando thanks for the info, was looking to level mnk next and knowing ths is for sure it will greatly help.

As for signet I am under the assumption it gives boosts to, ACC,DEF,EVA,ATK in low man settings solo-3 ppl as I have yet to acctually go out and test with more than 4.

[nanatsu]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

lol @ your first post ever, on ffxionline, flaming Armando.

Although, I can see from the plentiful arguments which you presented how Armando's testing is flawed...

Whether the test was flawed or not, that's a pretty presumptuous way to go about pointing it out, considering it's his first post and no one knows who the *beep* this guy is. I'd dare say it's troll worthy.

[Truece]

Re: [TEST] Counter Data

Whether the test was flawed or not, that's a pretty presumptuous way to go about pointing it out, considering it's his first post and no one knows who the *beep* this guy is. I'd dare say it's troll worthy.

I guess I need to add some /sarcasm tags. Maybe Mhurron can show me how they work?