MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

[Cixoe]

Ok well I am just wandering what hand-to-hand weapons are the best for a mnk? Right now I am using Knuckles, they seem good to be, but I honestly think that Casti is the best. But, I dont know, I was just thinking about this a moment ago.

[Jarre]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

There is a guide on wiki for weapons and armour for mnk which selects the OP's advice on which H2H weapons to get at each level for best results.

[Aeolus]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

Once your 38 get Mythril Knuckles +1, they are pretty amazing still until lv50 when you get Cross-Counters. Never used them myself as I was poor back then but they work until lv73, get Tact Knights Hooks+1/2 at 52 if you cant afford the CC's. Also another alt is Spartan Cesti at 58, High Dmg and a long delay. Personally I would go for the Hooks or CC's though. At 73 you want to spam KS30's until you get yourself Destroyers. Unlock the latent and keep till you get Relic, if you ever do :p.

More specifically to your question before about which type of H2H are the best.

lv1-58 Knuckles or Hooks, much better damage for weapon skills and the delays not that bad.

58-75 if your using Spartan Cesti as they are one of the only 2 cesti type that have high dmg.

If your not using the Spartan Cesti at 58 carry on with Hooks until lv73 when you get Destroyers, the other High Dmg cesti.

Hope that made sense :/

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

There is no such thing as a best weapon type for any weapon family. Sometimes a particular set of cesti will be best, at some other level a particular pair of knuckles will be best, etc.

The best way to evaluate a weapon is simply to do the math yourself. Figure out your base DMG, figure out your base Delay, then add the weapon's DMG and Delay and figure out the DMG/Delay ratio. Your base DMG is 3 + (H2H Skill * 0.11). Don't round that. Your base Delay is 480 without Martial Arts, 400 with Martial Arts I, and subtract 20 Delay for every successive level of Martial Arts. But that's your total Delay, you want your Delay per hand. So after you add the weapon's Delay, divide your total Delay by 2.

In cases where the weapons lack additional stats, or when the additional stats are very similar, this'll usually tell you the better weapon. If one weapon has considerable +stats and the other doesn't, you'll have to make a judgment call - for example, if one weapon has +10 Attack and the other doesn't, the one with +10 Attack could be better even if its DMG/Delay is slightly lower.

Example: Lv.20 MNK, capped H2H
Base DMG: 3 + (63 * 0.11) = 3 + 6 = 9
Base Delay: 380 (Martial Arts II)

Platoon Cesti:
DMG: 9 + 4 = 13
Delay: 380 + 48 = 428 (219 per hand)
DMG/Delay: 13/(219/60) = 13*60/219 = 3.56

Cougar Baghnakhs:
DMG: 9 + 6 = 15
Delay: 380 + 51 = 431 (215.5 per hand)
DMG: Delay: 15*60/215.5 = 4.18

In this case, though Cougar Baghnakhs are slower, it has high enough DMG to still perform better over time. Though Platoon Cesti has 2 Accuracy, that'll only increase your hit rate by 1%, while Cougar Baghnakhs have 17% more DMG/sec than Platoon Cesti (math: 4.18/3.56 = 1.1741...)

Do the math yourself and you'll be much better off than blinding following anyone's advice or guides. Advice and guides aren't bad, in fact, they're often good, but there are always mistakes in them.

lv1-58 Knuckles or Hooks, much better damage for weapon skills and the delays not that bad.

Picking a weapon for DMG is a bad idea. 1 or 2 extra DMG has a very negligible effect on your WS and you'll probably lose more damage over time from normal hits than what you'll gain from extra WS damage.

[Aeolus]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

Well considering the Dmg on Hooks/Knuckles lv1-58 is a great deal larger than any of the cesti I think if you spend the time working it out for all the weapons it'll be the same sort of result you made an example of. Of course, I could have just blown my foot off saying that.

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

2-3 extra DMG will at best get you around 4-6 extra damage per hit in your WS, if your attack is high. A faster weapon could get in an extra attack round on normal hits (or simply require an extra hit to reach 100 TP) and could make up the difference in a single punch. Plus, the Delay on many knuckles sucks pretty bad, enough to not justify the DMG increase on normal hits. I haven't looked at hooks yet but the same reasoning applies.

There's seldom an exception to the rule; it's almost always better to forget about DMG differences for WS.

[Celeal]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

In some situation, if hate is an issue, a slightly lower DPS weapon may be *easiler* or *an alternative* to fix the hate issue, other than changing armor/rings/... or switch subjob, or cancel Job Abilities, back facing the mob etc.

In idea situation, more damage output ftw =P

[Omni]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

Simple Guide for h2h progression.

1-32: Cesti +1/Bastokan Knuckles/Metal Knuckles +1
32-40: Impact Knuckles
40-50: Cross Counters or TM Hooks
52: TM Hooks +1/+2 (if no CC)
69: Avengers (TM Hooks +1/+2 are still fine if you cant get these)
72: Wagh Baghnakhs
73: Destroyers

You'll want to get yourself a pair of Destroyers when you reach 73 as they clearly are the premier h2h weapon for mnk endgame. For other weapons, the +6% crit only applies on the hand that it is equipped in (ie: dissector, senju, heart snatcher) for Destroyers it applies to both hands. So you can have a full 10% crit after you fully merit crit+.

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

I agree with everything on your list Omni, except that I'd add two entries... just to add to it.

lvl 10: Legionnaire's Knuckles
lvl 15: Republic Knuckles

[Malacite]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

In the early levels, you will want to stick with the highest damage possible since you don't have enough Martial Arts traits to really take advantage of some of the lower delay weapons.

This starts to change in the 50's though. T.M. Hooks +2 can last you right up to end game, where you'll have plenty of great choices;

Wagh Bagnaks, Vishnu's Cesti, and Destroyers are the top 3 end game weapons (unless you're crazy enough to attempt getting the Spharai)

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

I completely agree. Also, lower level mobs tend to have a huge amount of VIT (by comparison to player STR) for damage mitigation, and so the higher damage really helps in that regard.

Snippers just grind my gears

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

In the early levels, you will want to stick with the highest damage possible since you don't have enough Martial Arts traits to really take advantage of some of the lower delay weapons.

Not necessarily. MA1 takes your base Delay per hand down to 200. No matter how you slice it, tacking on an extra 48 from a +96 Delay weapon has a significant impact on your weapon's DPS. For instance, Lynx Baghnakhs beat Republic Knuckles, Metal Knuckles +1, and Claws because it has +6 DMG but a mere +30 Delay. At Lv.30 you'd need Claws +1 to get an actual upgrade. Likewise, Claws+1 out-DPS Impact Knuckles.

I completely agree. Also, lower level mobs tend to have a huge amount of VIT (by comparison to player STR) for damage mitigation, and so the higher damage really helps in that regard.

Snippers just grind my gears

False. Low level mobs have no subs, and therefore have below-average stats in comparison to a subbed player. People have a strong tendency to overhunt, ESPECIALLY when the target is crabs funnily enough.

[Malacite]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

I dunno, it's pretty damn hard to beat Republic Knuckles from 10-30 (at which point you should use Boreas Cesti if you can get them)

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

Look at it this way. Lynx Baghnakhs are a DMG:17 Delay:205 weapon vs Republic Knuckles's DMG:17 Delay: 228. That's a pretty wide difference. One's got a DPS of 4.97, the other has a DPS of 4.47. About an 11% difference in DPS.

Boreas Cesti doesn't look better than Lynx Baghnakhs seeing as they have the same DMG but the cesti have more Delay. Does the wind damage proc a lot or something?

[Malacite]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

It's 100% proc rate. Also, I found the extra accuracy and attack quite helpful. Yeah, it's only 1% hit rate and 3 attack but every little bit helps. Especially for those nice fat attack foods early on (Juicy Mutton FTW! +27% attack) You're absolutely right about the delay though.