MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

I don't blame you; that's a hell of a lot of detail. I really appreciate all the hard work. Things are much clearer now, and I'm going to have to take a better look at all this sometime when I'm less distracted.

You're welcome. Don't get me wrong, I don't really mind doing this for someone every now and then. I just stay away from it when I don't have to.

Correct. I believe in general, HtH = half the benefit of actual bludgeoning or "impact" type?

In general, yes. There's probably exceptions (mobs with uniform resistances to everything, like elementals?) But for most things, yeah.

Except both would only have 3% Haste. Swinging 3% faster should equal the same impact on DPS regardless of weapon delay. i.e. Given 2 weapons with identical DPS but vastly differing delays, Haste should affect both equally.

Correct. 3% Haste affects both weapons equally because both are getting 3% shaved off, as you said. Haste's exponential growth applies when you're stacking on more Haste, not anything else (it should be noted that Dual Wield also grows exponentially, but mathematically it's its own factor.)

I don't have anything to tell you about this, except that I think, once again, it'd favor both instances equally.

Also correct. Purple Belt would add 1 more fSTR to both weapons. Technically this would favor Lynx Baghnakhs since it's slightly faster, but if we're just adding 1 fSTR, the difference will be so small it can be ignored. At the end of it all I'll still end up rounding it to 11% DPS advantage. If we were talking about 4-5 extra fSTR, it'd be worth taking into consideration.

And yeah, my bad about that. I always forget about MNK's color belts for some reason.

[Malacite]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

Correct. 3% Haste affects both weapons equally because both are getting 3% shaved off, as you said. Haste's exponential growth applies when you're stacking on more Haste, not anything else (it should be noted that Dual Wield also grows exponentially, but mathematically it's its own factor.)

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that speeding up the frequency of attack rounds for a lower delay weapon is more noticable. Also pretty sure purple is 4 haste not 3

Though that makes me curious as to what 70% haste would do to something like Hornet Needle as opposed to the psycho 90% that's only possible with the Apocalypse.

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that speeding up the frequency of attack rounds for a lower delay weapon is more noticable. Also pretty sure purple is 4 haste not 3

That's funny, most people will say (and I agree) that it's more noticeable on slower weapons. It's easier to notice 1.26 secs being shaved off of your Great Axe's attack round than it is to notice 0.375 secs being shaved off of your Hornetneedle's attack rounds when someone casts Haste on you.

Though that makes me curious as to what 70% haste would do to something like Hornet Needle as opposed to the psycho 90% that's only possible with the Apocalypse.

In terms of pure speed Hornetneedle still comes out slightly ahead (0.75 secs vs 0.855 secs), though obviously in terms of damage, it's no contest.

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

@ TOMATO KAI

No offense taken, though I don't know what the ....

... Goddamn, only took me about 2 hours. You see, this is why I prefer sticking to blunt posts and making educated assumptions (i.e. an 11% difference in DPS is too big for +2 Acc and +3 Attack to overcome,) even if it comes off as confrontational and has a certain degree of uncertainty.

What a polite and amazingly informative post! Thank you tremendously much, this explains alot more of your logic than seemingly arbitrary numbers to attach on to weapons so you can say one is better than a given other. Honestly, I wish more people would post like this.

Edit; shortened for less eye-bleeding.

I do have a quick question though. I'm not entirely sure how your ACC numbers work... I understand the damage differences and everything - and I'm not questioning if the acc bonus on Rep. Knuckles is enough to sway any argument... I just don't really see any reference to the numbers themselves.

[Armando]

Re: MNK Hand-To-Hand Question

The formula for hit rate is:
75 + (Acc - Eva)*0.5 + (Level Difference * 2)

That is, a when your Accuracy = mob's Evasion, your hit rate is 75%. Every Acc point adds 0.5 to your hit rate, every Evasion point subtracts 0.5. For every level the mob is higher than you, your hit rate gets penalized by 2.

What a polite and amazingly informative post! Thank you tremendously much, this explains alot more of your logic than seemingly arbitrary numbers to attach on to weapons so you can say one is better than a given other. Honestly, I wish more people would post like this.

I leave out most of the math and formulas out of my posts because most people A) already know the formulas, B) know where to find them if they don't, C) assume I'm doing the math right, and D) are mostly interested in the final results, not the calculations in between. Plus, posts become massive when the math is included, and people don't want to read walls of text.

If you want to know, though, all you have to do is ask. I don't really mind.