+Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

[Omni]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

my mnk is 45 and the only acc piece i use is the 4acc on jiujitsu gi and tilt belt if things get tough. everyother gear slot is dedicated to str or atk.

mnk just naturally has good acc. and with sushi + focus... its pretty much all good. at higher lvls when you might try to hunt things that are IT++, you might want to get some things as backup just in case you are missing too much.

[Karinya]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

+Acc is overrated and overpriced for all jobs, if you're below 50, eating sushi or both. It's not that +acc won't help you, but that something else will help you more (usually attack). Five hits for 10 are not better than three hits for 20 and two misses.

When you're severely overhunting or lower level than the rest of the party (or worse, both), acc is more tempting - but sacrificing atk is even worse than if you were fighting monsters of a reasonable level, and will drop your damage (both normal hit and WS) to truly worthless levels. It's a double bind without a real solution other than "wait until you're higher level to fight those mobs".

[D34ThWi5h]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

I Just about gave up on this site but decided to pop back into this thread, and thank you for the Alternatives on Fairy generally +acc gear is expesive but I am going to look into life belt / venerer Rings later today. Thanks for the advice and look I even used periods. Oh and last thanks for giving me a real answer instead of just talking about me not puncuating my sentances.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

yr all Beng Total Priks to Me

Just curious, but do you understand why people react to your writing that way?

* * *

As for "i never have problems hitting i miss every now and again", how do you know that? Did you use a parser? It's very easy to fall into the mental trap of "I don't want to spend the effort to get those items, so I'll look for evidence that I don't need them."

People tend to see what they are looking for, rather than the truth.

[Omni]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

i think the question is answered, no need to keep kicking the can.

[D34ThWi5h]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

I thought i brought a stop to the flaming but apparently not.

[pearlsea]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

+Acc is overrated and overpriced for all jobs, if you're below 50, eating sushi or both. It's not that +acc won't help you, but that something else will help you more (usually attack). Five hits for 10 are not better than three hits for 20 and two misses.
When you're severely overhunting or lower level than the rest of the party (or worse, both), acc is more tempting - but sacrificing atk is even worse than if you were fighting monsters of a reasonable level, and will drop your damage (both normal hit and WS) to truly worthless levels. It's a double bind without a real solution other than "wait until you're higher level to fight those mobs".

I personally would go for the 5 hits for 50 damage total then 3 hits for 60 damage total because you get more TP which lets you WS more often which gives you more damage over time. Also personally i recommend getting every accuracy piece you can personaly afford below level 50 because there generally is a lack of it and the lower levels are known for whiffing a lot.

[Dryhus]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

As Itazura said, I highly recommend getting a parser. You see some surprising facts once you calculate all the numbers at the end of the fight. "Okay...so add his damage to the wyvern's and...wtf the DRG outdamaged me??" I wouldn't be surprised if you came up with that result if you skimp on Acc gear. Then you notice he had 85% Acc and you had 60% Acc. Maybe each of your hits packed more of a punch, but it's hard to make up for that kind of Acc deficit.

[Celeal]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

IMHO, the goal is to connect the hits, and to make sure each hit deals as much of damage as possible.

Either sushi + STR/ATK gear, or attack food + ACC gear works, depends on the situation. The question is how much acc, str and atk in gear is needed for either setup?

I had partied with DD that pwned the mob using sushi, but I also had partied with other DD that failed using sushi. Same for attack food.

There are some type of mobs that have higher evasion, there are also type of mobs that have higher defense. The level gap between the mob and the DD have an impact as well.

In the end, a DD wants ACC+, STR+ and ATK+ gear. Sushi build trend to focus a little of ACC+ gear and a lot of STR+/ATK+ gear. Meat build usually focus heavily on ACC+ gear, and some STR+/ATK+ gear.

There is a different between sushi with zero ACC+ gear, and sushi with ACC+ (or ACC minus) gear. Similar relation with meat and ATK+ gear.

The high end STR+/ATK+ gear, like O.Kote, Brown Belt... can be as expensive as the high end ACC+ gear.

ACC+ is only part of the problem that a Monk needs to deal with. At the end, ACC+, STR+, ATK+, and food choice togather determine the actual number of ACC+, STR+ and ATK+ is desired.

[Karinya]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

I personally would go for the 5 hits for 50 damage total then 3 hits for 60 damage total because you get more TP which lets you WS more often which gives you more damage over time.

No, it doesn't. Every commonly used DD WS's damage is greatly affected by Attack. Just like with the normal hits, you get more WS but they're weaker, so your total WS damage is lower even though you are doing more WS per 10 minutes.

Furthermore, even for main job THFs WS are 1/3 or less of your total damage (and the damage of THF WS comes mostly from SATA, which is another gear priority entirely). For most DDs it's more like 1/5.

Also personally i recommend getting every accuracy piece you can personaly afford below level 50 because there generally is a lack of it and the lower levels are known for whiffing a lot.

And if you put on every accuracy piece you can find, the lower levels are STILL known for whiffing a lot (in addition to hitting for crap when you do connect). This is because pickup parties in the lower levels overhunt like madmen. You can't fix a level problem with gear.

It *is* a good idea to balance some accuracy with some attack. It is *not* a good idea to load up as much accuracy as you can get and forget your attack. You will still miss monsters that are a lot of levels above you, and when you do hit, you'll hit weak.

[Karinya]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

As Itazura said, I highly recommend getting a parser. You see some surprising facts once you calculate all the numbers at the end of the fight. "Okay...so add his damage to the wyvern's and...wtf the DRG outdamaged me??" I wouldn't be surprised if you came up with that result if you skimp on Acc gear. Then you notice he had 85% Acc and you had 60% Acc. Maybe each of your hits packed more of a punch, but it's hard to make up for that kind of Acc deficit.

No, it isn't. 60% vs 85% is less than 50% more hits per minute (assuming equal delay weapons; otherwise it's a bit more complicated but works out similarly in the end). If you are hitting for 50% more per hit (which you almost always will with an attack focused setup vs an accuracy focused setup), then you are doing more total damage.

Nearly every party I've had as DRG I've seen
Sushieater hits the Worker Crawler for 10 points of damage.
Sushieater scores a critical hit! The Worker Crawler takes 21 points of damage.
Karinya hits the Worker Crawler for 46 points of damage.

It's *impossible* to make up for that kind of Atk deficit unless the meat eater's acc falls to something ridiculously low like 30%. (Which I have not seen, even on 200+ exp beetles with undispelled rhino guard on.) You can't hit more than 100% of the time, and the closer you get, the less benefit you get from additional accuracy.

I recommend YOU get a parser, and pay less attention to the accuracy column and more to the total damage dealt column.

[Mhurron]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

No, it doesn't.

5x50=250
3x60=180

Ya, I think it gives more damage, not counting the extra TP you'd get from 5 hits over 3. Like with all things, lots of smaller parts usually are worth more then a few big ones.

[pearlsea]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

No, it doesn't. Every commonly used DD WS's damage is greatly affected by Attack. Just like with the normal hits, you get more WS but they're weaker, so your total WS damage is lower even though you are doing more WS per 10 minutes.
Furthermore, even for main job THFs WS are 1/3 or less of your total damage (and the damage of THF WS comes mostly from SATA, which is another gear priority entirely). For most DDs it's more like 1/5.

Every commonly used DD WS is also multi hit, therefore if you miss hits you loose damage, and missing 2 hits of a 5 hit WS is alot more hurtful then missing 2 out of 5 melee swings. And if you are like any normal melee DD you would switch gears for WS anyways so i dont know why this is even a factor.

And if you put on every accuracy piece you can find, the lower levels are STILL known for whiffing a lot (in addition to hitting for crap when you do connect). This is because pickup parties in the lower levels overhunt like madmen. You can't fix a level problem with gear.
It *is* a good idea to balance some accuracy with some attack. It is *not* a good idea to load up as much accuracy as you can get and forget your attack. You will still miss monsters that are a lot of levels above you, and when you do hit, you'll hit weak.

I said get every piece of accuracy you can afford not only get accuracy and ignore your attack completely. There are only a few pieces of gear that give decent amounts of accuracy at low levels anyways, so get that and fill the rest of your slots with attack.

EDIT:

5x50=250
3x60=180
Ya, I think it gives more damage, not counting the extra TP you'd get from 5 hits over 3. Like with all things, lots of smaller parts usually are worth more then a few big ones.

I think you misunderstood, it was 5 hits for 10 damage for 50 damage total compared to 3 hits for 20 damage(totally exaggerated number) for 60 damage total.
Anyways theoretical numbers say nothing because lots of things effect damage overtime, but if you want to prove a setup is more effective then another please parce it or at least show a lot of screenshots.

[Lmnop]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

They both work, who cares?

I prefer meat + acc equipment, though I only get to use that layout on low IT (my acc gear is still a bit gimp).

I also have lots of attack gear and carry sushi with me. I like both, I don't mind (though when I do get to bust out attack food, my Rampages are more random, but I deal soooo much more DoT).

Then there's the whole bard thing. People are like OMFG minuetx2 + sushi (2x minuet is statistically more efficient than 2x madrigal), but they forget that if I'm already geared for acc gear + attack food + berserk, that 2x minuet just helps me even more. Bard in the party doesn't decrease my acc, afterall. >.> That was just a random tangent I was thinking of though. Everyone talks about food + gear or food + songs, never all 3.

It's a very tiny point but... hitting often but very weakly is also known as "feeding the mob tp."

If you're a mnk with all the expensive +acc gear and you're eating sushi, you're looking at your parser's acc column and not total damage. If you attack every 350 delay or 5.8 seconds (I don't know monk's delay, just a guestimate), that's ~20 swings/minute. If you miss twice, you have 90% acc. If you miss 4 times, that's 80%. if you hit for average 30/swing, you have potential of 600 dmg with 100% acc. Let's say you instead hit for 40 damage, but you miss a whomping 5 times. Tada! 600 damage. but the parser says you hit 15/20, or 75% accuracy. How about that... +25% acc and -25% damage is the same as +25% damage and -25% acc (not that you're likely to achieve 100% acc even in my example).

It's hard to compare Monkles and Waranges (I'm so dumb), but i've been in parties with blinged out monks hitting for 15-25 while I swing for 40-50. You can spend all the money in the world and still be retarded.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: +Acc On MNK Overrated and overpriced?

Everyone talks about food + gear or food + songs, never all 3.

Actually, results depend on food, gear, party (incl. BRD), and monster--it's not possible to fully separate any one element from the rest.

Often, you really can't say some attack gear is better than another accuracy gear in a slot without taking into account of what food you use, what's the party like, the monster you're trying to kill, AND what are the rest of your gear.

People keep writing up neat sounding little rules like "Accuracy owns all" or "Attack gear with sushi", but I think there are so many variables that there's no way to fully predict ahead of time what will work best. Bring sushi and meat, have different attack/accuracy gears to switch in, and keep an eye on the parser. Switch gears and food for 30 min stretches and see what results you'd get, and soon you'll have a better idea of which setups work can well for you.

The only neat little rule I truly believe in now is "Check your parser."

Of course, even if you can't use a parser or get someone else to parse your party for you, don't over look the obvious; /check the monster--if it says "high evasion", you need more accuracy; if it says "high defense", you need more attack. (If it says both, you're over hunting, or under geared, or both gimped and poking at the wrong mob. >_>; )

My personal preference on melee DD jobs (when I'm too lazy to run a parser) is target formonster to check as low evasion as priority over low defense, since when I'm out damaged on a DD job it's usually to a melee with better accuracy. YMMV.

That said, my MNK is only 31, so maybe you higher level MNK's just plain old out damage everyone else using either accuracy or attack build--for all I know, maybe some of you guys can walk up the mob wearing nothing but a Republic Subligar and just own. =b