Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

[Minaku]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Folks, please don't give Jinghles the power he had on alla. Pointing out the flaws in his reasoning for the 89073525th time proves nothing except that you continue to read his drivel. If you don't like him or his ideas, don't give them your attention.

If everyone actually stuck to this, his threads would get about 2 replies and sink to oblivion. And since he is here ONLY to incite and get attention, if he's ignored he will soon leave and find someone else's leg to hump. If you are arguing with him, you're giving him exactly what he came here for. That's all I have to say about Jinghles and I won't be posting on his threads again. I hope you all will join me.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Well, here's my MNK tanking story. (That's what was asked for, right?)

MNK31, and I tanked from Qufim to second jungle, when allowed. That amounted to "occasional", but I did tank and looked for opportunities to tank. Thanks to the nature of pick-up parties at those levels, I had a lot of (short) parties and slightly more than a handful of opportunity to tank.

Successful? Yes. No. Kinda. (And, no, it doesn't apply to Lv.50, where Jingy's at.)

It's been a while, but this is what I can remember, I always carried the best defense armor I had (think bone +1 and beetle +1, etc.) along with attack gear, and had VIT rings along with DEX and STR rings. I brought meat and boiled crab. I had many bits and pieces of gear with higher defense clogging my inventory--just so I can DD and tank.

Sometimes I main tanked, sometimes I back-up tanked, and sometimes I stole hate while eating DD food on purpose because whatever it was we were fighting, it was beating up the tank or mages. >_>; (I had offensive and defense gears on macros, so I wasn't crazy.)

Often things would go well when tanking; holding hate on mandies wasn't hard in the first jungle, but I didn't have RNG's or DRG's poking at them, I think. Sometimes things are hard, and I gritted my teeth as critters run toward the back line, hoping my boost or provoke timer was coming right up.

Then, there were IT goblins. If there was a combination of equipment which would allow me to tank them w/out being a complete MP sponge, I didn't find it in my inventory.

The lack of defensive equipment became noticeable starting in the late 20's, from the amount of damage I've taken. (Compared to my experience on WAR31, PLD29, and even NIN41.) Having taken four jobs tanking at least part-time to low 20's and beyond, I can say with some confidence that PLD is best suited for the job at those levels, with WAR second, NIN third, and MNK fourth after mid 20's.

Really, there's a huge difference at late 20's between PLD tank and MNK tank; my number one concern on PLD is balancing defense and taking enough damage so I can cure to hold hate, while my tanking-MNK was desperately trying to figure out how to stop being an MP sponge--and on gob's, how to stay alive.

Perhaps if staying at T-VT mobs were an option, my MNK could have made a better tank in the late 20's; pick-up parties has many downfalls, and not being able to choose one's preys is one of them.

Then again, it wouldn't have been able to match the versatility of my PLD anyway--I can change to less defensive (i.e. more offensive) equipment if hate is a problem due to low damage and not curing enough--that choice to lower defense just couldn't be possible with a tanking MNK.

On DD food and equipment, though, my MNK did decent damage and was a blast to play (though I do enjoy tanking a lot). Unfortunately, no gear or food I carried--DD, defense, or otherwise--made Looking for Party time pass any faster. So, I kept all my MNK stuff, and hope to return to it someday. When I have time. When there are 48 hours in a day. ^_^; (So I can spend 8hr/day waiting for party. T_T )

==========

Around late 30's, I was invited to a mixed JP/NA Gustav Tunnel party on my WHM. (I was the 'NA', along with the BLM, I think.)

To my surprise, we had no tank. o_O;

Two WHM's, two MNK's, a BLM, plus misc. others, but no tank! No, wait, one of the MNK kept voking, and the other would voke when MNK#1 is low on HP. We did have tanks.

Well, but not very good tanks. We couldn't get pass chain#2, and stayed at chain#1 mostly, even though a few weeks before on my THF with a NIN tank and MNK as DD, we were making chain#4's easy at the same level. The two WHM run out MP very fast; we both used Benediction to save the party, and I think we each died once. And, I was exhausted from non-stop curing. (The healing magic skill up was nice, though.)

Maybe the MNK's weren't geared right; I know the main tanking MNK was eating meat mithkabob instead of defense food. Whatever it was, that MNK tanking party didn’t work well, and the tank(s) were to blame.

==========

So, what's my story for MNK tanking?

It can be done before Lv.25, but gets hard and becomes dangerous for party if dangerous mobs can aggro the puller or wander near camp. At high Lv.30's, it sure doesn't look very easy on flies and bats--certainly don't put two random MNK's together and tell them to co-tank when a properly prepared tank isn't around--two WHM's plus a BLM who back-up heals had trouble keeping the party alive.

It very well may be that a MNK can tank from Lv.30 to Lv.50, but it's beyond my ability to put together the right equipment mix, the right party, and the right camps to make it happen and make it work right. /salute to those who can.


Edit: Spelling, sentence fragements in my head which didn't make it to the keyboard, etc. <_<;

[Omni]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

close this already. op doesnt post anything detailed. just a lot of double spaced one liners about how this means to him or how can you question this yadda yadda. replys are starting to go in circles as someone already pointed out. how many times do we have to hear how pld and nin tank and why they tank and how it affects the pt.

ive tried as well as many others to give suggestions but the op doesnt want to try it out. go with full tank mentality. best def gear at ur level. tacos, vit equip and defender. tell us how it goes. its that simple. since op just wants to dance around the questions and act aloof, while no one else wants to try it, where is this going?

edit: your journal doesnt say anything. just lists a buncha equip you played around with. what did you use to tank? dont tell me that whole list, cuz compound eye circlet and battle gloves IS not tanking gear at 50.

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

^^

when you get a pickup pt on your mage job ... do you ask the tank the same questions you are asking me? ... i would think the answer to that would be no, you can only join the pt and take your chances

once you join the party ... you go through your mage routine

if you are a whm, it's a wait and see if you will pull hate from curing the tank when necessary

if you are a blm, then you nuke to the point where you get hate ... once you find that thresh hold, you nuke accordingly

no whm has ever died in my pt when i was main tanking with mnk/war from the whm pulling hate from curing me

no blm has ever died in my pt when i was main tanking with mnk/war from the blm pulling hate from nuking ... there was only one instance where i challenged a skeptical blm i had in my party in quicksands to get hate from me ... this blm had to empty his entire MP pool before he got hate .. and that hate was shortlived ... did this blm say 'wow, you hold hate well' ... of course he didn't ... he said 'see i pulled hate from you' ... if it takes a blm all his MP to pull hate from me ... i think i'm doing a good job controlling hate

can i control hate when sata is not on me when i main tank .... i am confident that i can ... with my setup and my combat skills and my food choice ... i WELCOME thf's to sata onto someone else, but the thf's that i've pt-ed with are skeptical ... even when they reluctantly try it my way and see that i do indeed either hold hate or can get hate back shortly after ~meh

Jinghles, if you're truly trying to look for methods to refine your tanking technique, then you shouldn't be seeing all these criticisms and questions as off-topic, but rather as an opportunity for inspection and change. How else are you going to improve something without having someone point at a piece of it and saying, "What's that for? Why?"

The best way to learn something thoroughly is to try and teach it.

you are right ... but what i'm finding is happening is that the teacher is blamed for the student not learning

i am accused of saying the same answer over and over ... this is because the same question is asked of me over and over

perhaps a faq journal entry is in order and i'll just refer ppl who asks the same question over to the faq

i believe my gear list tells volumes on how i tank ... if you have specific question about my gear ... ask me specific questions

i've went back about 10 pages in this mnk forums and i've not seen a topic that has elicited so much replies

can anyone explain this phenomenon?

are the repliers in this thread truly interested in mnk tanking? ... if you are replier that is sincerely interested in mnk tanking ... please tell me so ... i feel i am alone in exploring mnk tanking ... i am constantly put on the defense ... defending my style of mnk tanking instead of discussing and comparing my success with other successful mnk tanks

i cannot be the only successful mnk tank pre lvl 70 in the game ... all you other mnk tanks out there ... i ask you for your support ... once again ^^

i do not STATIC mnk tank .. i pickup mnk tank ... i am laying it all out there for all to see ~~




jingy

[neighbortaru]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

you are right ... but what i'm finding is happening is that the teacher is blamed for the student not learning

That is because the "teacher" is not teaching anything but instead talking so he can hear his own voice. I said it before (and others have echoed it after me), you provide very little detail or description on how you have "sucessfully" monk tanked.

i am accused of saying the same answer over and over ... this is because the same question is asked of me over and over

and it's because you never answer the question. you eloquently sidestep the answer each and every time.

perhaps a faq journal entry is in order and i'll just refer ppl who asks the same question over to the faq

i believe my gear list tells volumes on how i tank ... if you have specific question about my gear ... ask me specific questions

i've went back about 10 pages in this mnk forums and i've not seen a topic that has elicited so much replies

can anyone explain this phenomenon?

that is because we are trying to get a straight answer from you.

are the repliers in this thread truly interested in mnk tanking? ... if you are replier that is sincerely interested in mnk tanking ... please tell me so ... i feel i am alone in exploring mnk tanking ... i am constantly put on the defense ... defending my style of mnk tanking instead of discussing and comparing my success with other successful mnk tanks

i cannot be the only successful mnk tank pre lvl 70 in the game ... all you other mnk tanks out there ... i ask you for your support ... once again ^^

i do not STATIC mnk tank .. i pickup mnk tank ... i am laying it all out there for all to see ~~

I am more interested in how YOU have sucessfully tanked as a monk. I thought that was the purpose of this thread. Unfortunately, you do not seem to be able, or do not wish, to provide detailed descriptions of what you did.

Stop blowing smoke (vaguely answering questions and directing readers to your worthless journal) and show us the goods (detailed descriptions of how you main tanked fights - break it down to mob type, levels, party setup, macros, gear swaps, xp, chains, etc).

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

^^

when you get a pickup pt on your mage job ... do you ask the tank the same questions you are asking me? ... i would think the answer to that would be no, you can only join the pt and take your chances

once you join the party ... you go through your mage routine

if you are a whm, it's a wait and see if you will pull hate from curing the tank when necessary

I ask "Do you have a PLD or a NIN tank?" So I can adjust accordingly. The only time the answer is "MNK," is when I'm in a bones party. Which is nothing like the standard XP parties you are in at 50 and tanking.

When I first started dealing with PLD instead of WAR tanks, and when I first started dealing with NIN tanks instead of PLD... Yes, I asked these same questions. So I think its fair to ask them here.

That being said, I'm going to bow out from the conversation.

[Taskmage]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

with my setup and my combat skills and my food choice

Details you still have not provided. What is your "setup?" What combat skills are you referring to? Capped guard? This is a joke as other monks have mentioned. Your food? What food? You refuse to give concrete answers to any of these questions.

defending my style of mnk tanking instead of discussing and comparing my success with other successful mnk tanks

You have defended nothing. You have only answered questions with more questions without giving a shred of detail as to what your alleged method of tanking with monk entails.

Your equipment listed in your journal is a mishmash, listing everything from Happy Egg to level 14 str rings to Galka RSE, the latter in particular make no sense. Even if you add up all the best defense, evasion, vitality, and enmity of all the equipment listed, you still have less damage mitigation and hate control than a paladin, a ninja, or even a warrior. You claim this list speaks volumes for your method. That list speaks of madness and delusion.

As much as I would love to lock this thread, it doesn't constitute a violation of the boards rules in any way, so there's no way I could justify it. I would only suggest that those who wish to see this conversation die follow sevenpointflaw's example and simply stop replying to it so it can slide off the page into oblivion. I will certainly endeavor to.

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

asking me to provide detailed information on 50 lvls of mnk tanking is very unreasonable

it is not within my power to do it to your satisfaction


i label myself as a 'teacher' .. because i am doing what all the repliers in this thread so far has said cannot be done


if you want to mnk tank .. and have not met with satisfaction using your 'methods' ... and have not tried my 'methods' ... then it would behoove you to try my method if you want to mnk tank

if you want to mnk tank ... and have tried my methods ... and gotten different results than i have ... then you have a legitimate discussion with me

but

if you do not want to be a mnk tank ... and have not tried my methods or seen it tried ... why are you even reading this thread and replying to it???


right now from what i've read ... ppl are telling me that mnks can't tank .. or can tank situationally

i would like to start my own discussion on the rigors of mnk tanking on this forums

my comments and points of view are based on my own in game experiences

i cannot provide any documented 'proof' other than my own hearsay or the hearsay of people that have partied with me who choose to respond

i am galka

i am presently a 50mnk

my guard is 129 base ( that's capped for lvl42 )


i am a career main mnk tank, and my mnk reached lvl50 by main tanking


i realize that mnk tanks are very very rare in this game, as i have seen ... and mnk tanks are never taken seriously ... but i do know they exist ... they just don't voice themselves often

i welcome any and all mnk tanks in this forums to speak freely on their experiences in this thread ... if nothing else, i for one will appreciate you sharing your practical views


if anyone has any particular questions on guard or mnk tanking ... don't hesitate to ask

my OP specifically told you what i have to say is hearsay, i've even asked the board moderators if my OP was a reasonable topic for discussion

yet the majority of the repliers continue to engage in asking me for documentation that i feel is unreasonable and that i can never ultimately be able to provide

bottom line

i main tanked to 50mnk in pickup pt's

i am looking to discuss mnk tanking with other mnk tanks, but i will entertain questions from interested mnk tanks in how i achieved this



jingy

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

You keep telling people to try your methods, you never told anyone what your methods are... what are they?

(I know people have asked this a million times, I'm just asking you bluntly, there is nothing else to reply to in this post so you can't run away by answering the rest and leaving that question alone.)

[neighbortaru]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

asking me to provide detailed information on 50 lvls of mnk tanking is very unreasonable

it is not within my power to do it to your satisfaction

That's a horrible excuse. You know very well that you can describe your current setup.

[Caspian]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

I have to agree with neighbor. How is asking if you used defender, what type mobs you fought, or what your preffered pt setup was unreasonable?
Do your blm's MB the sc? And do you participate in the sc?
Oh and one other thing. Have fun at 55....Slugwinder, Rampage....enjoy.

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

I have to agree with neighbor. How is asking if you used defender, what type mobs you fought, or what your preffered pt setup was unreasonable?
Do your blm's MB the sc? And do you participate in the sc?
Oh and one other thing. Have fun at 55....Slugwinder, Rampage....enjoy.

i do not use defender

what mobs did i fight? ... to the best of my recollection

32-35 garlaige citadel 1st floor

36-48 crawler's nest

49-50 garlaige citadel basement

i basically xp pt where i normally would with any other job i play

what party setups did i have? ... i make pt's from what's available, all i've ever needed was at least 1x mage willing to main cure, either BLM SMN RDM or WHM

i've main tanked with nin, pld, war's in my pt

if the pt could coordinate an SC, then the pt would SC

if the pt cannot coordinate an SC ... i would try and make an SC on the fly when i see someone else use a WS

MB is not up to me ... it's upto the blm ... i would always try and help coordinate the MB

i've had pt's of up to 3x blm's ... all MBing

i've had pt's where i've participated in:

fusion
liquifaction
scission
detonation
fragmentation
induration

i mnk/war tank like any other mnk/war, the only difference i can see is the gear i choose to tank with




@lvl 50 mnk this is how i would gear up for an xp pt:

main
Tropical Punches +1 10 Dmg: +2 Accuracy: 12

ammo
Happy Egg 1 Dmg: 1 Dly: 777 VIT: 1 HP: 1%

head
Cache-nez 1 Def: 2 Enmity: 2

neck
Agile Gorget 40 Def: 3 AGI: 2 Evasion: 1

body
Wool Doublet +1 42 Def: 28 Evasion: 5

hands
Battle Gloves 14 Def: 4 Accuracy: 3 Evasion: 3

waist
Life Belt 48 Accuracy: 10

legs
Aikido Koshita 50 Def: 20 Counter: 2

feet
Elder's Sandals 29 Def: 5 MP: 12 AGI: 3 INT: 2

back
Nomad's Mantle 24 Def: 2 AGI: 1 Evasion: 3

earrings
Drone Earring 35 AGI: 3 Vs. Wind: 6
Nemesis Earring 39 Enmity: 1

rings
Mermaid's Ring 43 Vs. Water: 3 Enmity: 2
Kampfer Ring 50 Latent Effect: Counterattack: 2


counterstance 100% active

dorado sushi

provoke when i can

boost when i can

i would participate in opening or closing a SC if the pt can set it up

i would solo my WS if i'm not part of the SC

i usually space out my JA's so there is timers overlap ... and i try to time using my JA's to other ppl's WS's


enlighten me as to why my gear list would be considered a mish mosh?

the gear in my gear list is the gear i used tanking to 50


as for the comment on high lvl WS/SC damage from the DD's ... i look forward to the high lvls when the DD get stronger ... that would mean faster kills for the pt

[Lmnop]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

First things first.

I don't give a shit about Jinghle's reputation on Alla. I was never fond of alla and if you drag in that Alla-way of posting about the person instead of the topic, you won't find me a happy duck or... something.

I've spoken many times before about my time as war/mnk tank. It works very well but it's a pain to find members willing to facilitate such a tank in the 50s.

On Mnk tanking, mine is 38. I've tanked every mob that people exp off of between 20 and 38, with the exception of Goblin Smithies... Nevermind, I had to kill some of those that aggroed too. However, the mp sink and help from party was of a level that I don't think I successfully tanked them.

I tanked crabs and pugils on defense food from 20-24 (main tank in party) I tanked Mandies from 24-26 or 27 in 1st jungle and on to 30 in 2nd jungle (main tank again). Note my low level of entering 2nd jungle. Despite their hitting like 3 year-olds, they were high enough to give us 200 exp before chains. I don't think that's too bad for a MNK.

Hate should never be an issue for a MNK tank. Voke + Boost + incredible DD was enough. I swapped most of my attack gear out for Beetle but used Purple Belt and STR rings over Warrior's belt +1 and VIT rings. I used attack food for the mandies as I found I could mostly get away with it. As a MNK tank, I am an MP sink (over time). I attempt to nullify this by killing so damn fast that I don't get hit enough to warrant being a "waste."

I never main-tanked beyond 30, however I always end up inevitably tanking.

from 30-32, I chained furriers. Parser says I did 50% of the party damage. This means I ended up tank quite frequently but this is one of my more "meh" experiences.

Here's where the real fun starts:

In these levels, I started leveling with my brother's Dark Knight. We had a lot of ninjas in these levels. Every time we got near the end of a chain, my brother would pop Souleater to earn us a Chain #5 (which is always nice in CN when the pulls are few). What's funny about this is that if a Drk starts a fight with souleater, ninja um.... don't stand a chance. However, Monks do. Ideally, I'd have tp ready and I'd boost > WS > voke and to get started and he'd souleater. It was always funny because the ninjas is voking when he can and doing everything in his power but I just keep hate solid on me while my brother tears teh mob to shreds. It conjures the image of the short person trying to get an item out of the hands of a taller person holding said item above his head.

my conclusion: my experience of war/mnk tells me that life will only get harder. I feel that MNK was S-E's attempt at what war/nin is: a DD that inevitably gets hate, and has the built in protection mechanisms to make it work. Like a war/nin, it's capable of tanking but performs best in short-term fights. Just like a war/nin is kinda screwed after 6 shadows while a nin/war can keep going, a Mnk takes it hard when he can't cure his own HP back while a PLD keeps going.

i.e. get a party that kills rediculously fast and you shouldn't have too much trouble (with the right gear).

[Kenki]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

i mnk/war tank like any other mnk/war, the only difference i can see is the gear i choose to tank with

@lvl 50 mnk this is how i would gear up for an xp pt:

main
Tropical Punches +1 10 Dmg: +2 Accuracy: 12

ammo
Happy Egg 1 Dmg: 1 Dly: 777 VIT: 1 HP: 1%

head
Cache-nez 1 Def: 2 Enmity: 2

neck
Agile Gorget 40 Def: 3 AGI: 2 Evasion: 1

body
Wool Doublet +1 42 Def: 28 Evasion: 5

hands
Battle Gloves 14 Def: 4 Accuracy: 3 Evasion: 3

waist
Life Belt 48 Accuracy: 10

legs
Aikido Koshita 50 Def: 20 Counter: 2

feet
Elder's Sandals 29 Def: 5 MP: 12 AGI: 3 INT: 2

back
Nomad's Mantle 24 Def: 2 AGI: 1 Evasion: 3

earrings
Drone Earring 35 AGI: 3 Vs. Wind: 6
Nemesis Earring 39 Enmity: 1

rings
Mermaid's Ring 43 Vs. Water: 3 Enmity: 2
Kampfer Ring 50 Latent Effect: Counterattack: 2


counterstance 100% active

dorado sushi

provoke when i can

boost when i can

i would participate in opening or closing a SC if the pt can set it up

i would solo my WS if i'm not part of the SC

i usually space out my JA's so there is timers overlap ... and i try to time using my JA's to other ppl's WS's


enlighten me as to why my gear list would be considered a mish mosh?

the gear in my gear list is the gear i used tanking to 50


as for the comment on high lvl WS/SC damage from the DD's ... i look forward to the high lvls when the DD get stronger ... that would mean faster kills for the pt

Correction: Tropical Punch +1: Delay 0, Dmg +2, Acc +12 (you forgot to add the delay and the '10' is misleading)

Now, since you have listed your gear I will explain why you can not tank or rather should not tank if you are a rational person or if you have any idea how hard the healers will have to do to keep you alive:
+Counterstance means reducing your armor defend to 0 and all your def will be from Vit and job level. This means almost anytime you get hit, it's going to be a maximum damage taken. Your equipments no longer matter now, only the stat bonus they provide matters.
+Even with guard, you will still take a lot of damage and guarding is not a 100% sure skill.
+Counterstance can net you up to a 40~45% chance of countering, leaving you with at least a 55% chance of getting a very big hit.
+Counter can not block TP moves, this means your chance of getting one-shotted is very very high.

As a result, healers will have to stay on their toes to make sure that you HP will not drop too fast. There is a very high chance of you getting killed before a healer can cure you so they have to give up MP conservation and heal you. This also means that using Cure I, Cure II and even Cure III won't keep you alive.

My back up proof? At v50 I have +9counter gear; I don't tank but I tend to pull hate a lot. So you can view this as tanking when keep hate is not a problem. +9 counter means roughly +9% chance of countering, combine with counterstance I have roughly the same chance of blocking damage as you are (+7% counter neglects the guard skill bonus). Thus, I should tank as well as you should if not more (since I don't have to keep hate with JA, I already have more hate than anyone else in the PT). Result? After using this setup to counter the attacks a Whm told me: {Counterstance} {No, Thanks}. I did not know what the whm was thinking until I leveled up whm and see a similar situation. The Whm was right, tanking with Counterstance permanently is not a good idea unless you have a very large pool of MP reserve.

So, I can asure you that your method doesn't work or at least from a view point of someone who is responsible to keep people alive, it does not work. It is from personal experience, others experience as well as conventional logic.

Also, keeping hate with only +7 enmity is not something you can trust on. I have proof for this when I level up as a war/mnk tank. Warrior AF gives +15 enmity, by lv58 I have +7enmity from AF. Keeping hate was a big problem even then. I had more Hate grabbing abilities than mnk at lv58 (War Cry + Aggressor), I do not have counterstance but, as I said before, it does not work anyway. Tanking was not the best but it was possible to tank. You can even tank quite well given that you can get a Thf and target something lower than IT+. However, In a PT where all members are very good DD then you will have trouble. This is because they are geared for IT+ and performing on VTs meaning they would just overpowered. They would just keep hate as good as you are -> there is no point for you to tank right? If they are bad DD, bad equipments then it's not a problem.

If you continues to tank as the way you are, the most you can reach is the tanking ability of a Warrior which is by no way the optimal method. You can't say a good War/Mnk tank at lv50ish is as good as a good Nin or a good Pld. With, this I can conclude that your PT are not as good as you think they are. Rather, you are being delusioned by the fact that you can 'keep hate' (even this notion is questionable) and thought they were 'good' PTs but actually they were not. A back up with exp per hour would have been sufficient provided that you don't make up the numbers -_-;

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a side note, you seem to missed what I said about critics. What I mean is that, a person do not have to be a specialist at a field to have good knowledge about it. It is completely different between having an operation by a doctor or by someone with the knowledge of a doctor but is not a doctor. This has to do with practice rather than knowledge. You have made a very wrong example, this means you did not understand what I mean.

A good example of what I mean would be on how science articles and research projects are judged. You know that all of those are written then sent to various readers who did not perform in the projects/articles. They might know about those projects, they have a good knowledge on the field but they have never ever perform something those before. Still, given enough information and data, they can replicate those processes. Then finally, even before they replicate the projects/research they can give out various critics. This is the same thing here we are talking about. You are no 'teacher', you are only a mere 'researcher' asking for critics and opinions to refine your studies; you do not teach anyone, you are only sharing what you think and know; you are learning from everyone's respond (you haven't, yet).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Lmnop

(sorry a bit off topic here)

The reason that you can tank is because your PT was doing something very very wrong. A person in a PT doing over 50% of total damage means everyone else is not doing anything. If a PT has 3 DD (if the tank is nin then he's also a DD, pld is another story) then each of them should do about 30% of total damage or if he's the tank he can go a bit below. Anyone getting over 35% meaning someone else is slacking or that's how the PT works (not a standard PT). If there are people in the PT who can do as much damage as you are then you won't be a very good tank (example: Mnk tank vs Mnk DD? or War tank vs Mnk DD?).

You also point out the bigest wall a mnk tank face: MP sink. Short battles are good since you can kill before you actually taking any damage. This is true when you can attack and kill T~VTs so fast that they don't even have a chance to hit you (ever seen multiple VTs only last up 15s in exp PT? That's how people pulling over #400 chains). Once you get a party that kill faster than you can take damage you no longer need a tank, or rather a tank is a dead-weight to the PT. Bone PT, War PT, arrow burn and mana burn are extremely good examples (fast kills, no need for tanks).

However, most parties aren't like that. They come up with a static tank who soak damage (evasion or reduction), damage dealers who strategically pull hate in the purpose of having faster kills without risking of being MP sink, healers who conserve MP and keep the PT rolling. The art of the a DD in a PT comes from the fact that you can deal maximum damage without being hit or losing too much HP (nice huh?). Mostly you would see a patern: Store TP to 40% mob's HP (70% if the SC+MB+nuke is strong), perform a powerful SC, perform a powerful MB, chain nuke and go all out if the mob is not dead yet, puller pull out of the fight to look for next target while watching MP, [repeat]. In fact this is the method of allowing even a modest PT to earn great exp without having some elite members (super rich with +1 equipments).

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Now, since you have listed your gear I will explain why you can not tank or rather should not tank if you are a rational person or if you have any idea how hard the healers will have to do to keep you alive:

??? ... heh

i tanked with my listed gear twice to 50

i am not asking you if my gear choice will work ... i am telling you my gear choice worked for me

no xp mob that i have experienced tanking to lvl 50 has one shotted me



i believe +enmity works BEST with mnks and nin's ... martial arts trait and dual wield trait i believe really optimizes +enmity ... the reason being is that you are doing twice the #actions in the same amount of time as compared with a pld swinging his sword or a war swinging his axe

i've main tanked with my mnk with other mnks in my pt ... my gear setup of +enmity with my 0delay does keep the hate off these DD mnks with the uber DD gear, when i ask them to voke to test my hate control ... i still control the hate

i have found my gear setup to work ... and i'm still not sure exactly why, but no after the fact explanations on "why my gear setup won't work", will change the fact that i tanked with my gear to the point i am at now, lvl50

to say i am deluding myself in guaging my tanking efficiency is another possibility, i suppose, again that doesn't change the fact that i only main tanked to lvl 50


i am supposed to be taking all this damage as a mnk ... getting hit for lotsa damage is suppose to lose you hate

i am supposed to be putting out pitiful damage with my tropical punches ... supposedly, not doing enough damage weakens your hate control

but ... i don't die .. my melee DD don't get hate ... my mages don't get hate ... whatsupwitdat ?!


i believe my gear choices, my guard level, and my strategy to use counterstance, strenghtens my damage mitigation potential

i will counter more, guard more, evade more than any mnk geared for DD ... or any mnk geared to tank with a high defense



i have found that my strategy works best on IT-IT+ ... i cannot control hate on T mobs with my setup

i xp on IT-IT+


mnk tanking is an amazing rush ... you should try it if you get an opportunity ^^


dance like but~terfly ... STING like bee!



jingy