Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

[Omni]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

that's not the purpose of this thread, not whether or not its good or whatever. just trying to see the results and possible successes of a mnk tanking.

anyone try gearing to be a full tank?

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

In my experience, a MNK with Black Belt ends up tanking regardless of his sub job or his intention to do so. ^^ I'd even bet a MNK/NIN with black belt and good gears could tank without voke no problem and keep hate the entire fight unless someone wanted to take it from him.

[arkaine23]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

What about mnk/blu? Cocoon sure would take def up a notch and is cheap on mp, likewise pollen is a cheap cure, and healing breeze might generate hate if everyone in the party has lost some hp from say an AOE or something... Cocoon is better than defender and it wouldn't lower your attack either. There's Head Butt for stun if it can land at 1/2 level blue magic (should because its a physical blue spell), and a warcry ability. I think a THF and a a refresher would be required of course, and this would be more towards the higher levels where DD monks can pull hate without trying and significat +enmity gear is available.

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

^^

i am presently exploring the journal feature this forums has and will be try and put up some background information about my ffxi career

whereas i do not like to edit my posts, i will also be editing my OP to include the post#'s of where i replied in this thread ... i think post#'s are a great feature, i've never seen that in any forums i've visited before ^^


it is nice to see ppl replying to this thread, this shows me there is interest in exploring mnk tanking by visitors of this site, but i do not want to see this thread growing out of control with replies that are too off topic

please try and follow this loose guideline if you can when replying ^^


perhaps i jumped the gun a bit making this thread without having any record of my own personal experiences ...

... my postings in these mnk forums will be mostly on the topic(s) of mnk tanking


thank your everyone for your interest and taking the time out to reply ^^


jingy

[Kenki]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Mnk tanking has 3 biggest weaknesses that should be overcome before taking it seriously:

#1 MP drain and MP conservation. Even if with Counterstance or full defence, Mnk will soak a lot of MP while tanking. From a healer point of view, it's always good to have a moment or 2 when you can rest during a battle. That is.. a tank should stay alive long enough until the mage can rest 1 tick (10sec) and cure him if needed. For Mnk with counterstance, he might take a very powerful TP attack or critical hit and die before the healer can reacts. This means the healer must stand for the rest of the fight. This means reliance on rdm and brd (or cor) are critical. In PT that drains a lot of MP, it will be hard to keep the exp chain going.

#2 Keeping hate is also a problem. Let's face it, provoke alone can't maintain a high level of hate after lv40. Warriors are the evidence since they have trouble keeping hate with only provoke after lv40... not until lv55s where their attack power increased high enough to offset the lost in emnity. The same thing can be said to mnk. Drk, Mnk, Rng, Drg, Sam are all powerful DD after lv50. Keeping hate from these guys are extremely hard. If a Mnk tank can't pull out similar damage or maybe close to these DD then keeping hate will be a problem. Since much of the emnity would be lost to damage taken... keeping hate would be troublesome. Also, there is a balance between the tank and the healer too. If you take too much damage tanking then the healer will get attacked.

#3 Finally, the most important point is "Why would you tank?". If a PT having problem finding a tank then using War or dual War or mnk will be fine. But what if there's a tank around? Well, wouldn't it be wiser to select him to tank and let the Mnk be a DD? So, in the end, how many of us think that spending several weeks leveling guard skill and several million gils for tanking gear would be worth if a mnk can only get to tank when there is no other tank?

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

has any mnk tank reading been able to overcome the things that kenki has listed?

i believe i have ... has anyone else? ^^


jingy

[Fathands]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

has any mnk tank reading been able to overcome the things that kenki has listed?

i believe i have ... has anyone else? ^^

Cool, what gear do you use to reduce mp drain? What food do you use? And what is your opinion on using defender?

[Nunnehi]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Jingy, while I apprecieate the uh... attempt at an inoccuous OP, the fact that you reply to the pleople in a holier-than-though seeming tone (not saying you are intending to - but thats what it looks like!), and not responding to people who atually want details only leads my to believe the people that you seem to troll for. If you want to prove you aren't a troll like they said, then just ignore them, don't adress the mods, and reply to the people who aren't snipping back at you.

And SO... I ask again; rather than make broad sweeping statements of hearsay, can I have conrete examples of why MNK tanking is worth anything compared to PLD or NIN? I'm not asking for a list of pros and cons or anything like that other posters have provided - everyone who isn't just outright biased can list pros and cons.

I'm asking for specific examples where it is worth my time to choose MNK of PLD or NIN. Or even better, specific examples of why I should choose YOU as a MNK over other MNK, PLD, or NIN. What can you, and MNKs in general, tank that PLD and NIN can't?

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Er... above post was me... Didn't realize my roomate had logged in and saved her info ><

[neighbortaru]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

has any mnk tank reading been able to overcome the things that kenki has listed?

i believe i have ... has anyone else? ^^

can you prove it or are you just boasting?

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

i am not intentionally being condescending or boastful in any of my posts, but many people feel that i am because they want to believe i am

if someone asks me if i can tank as a mnk, and i answer "yes, i can" ... am i being boastful?

aren't my posts in this thread as simple as that? ... the only difference is that no one directly asked me, i started this discussion

if by me initiating this discussion by sharing my experiences is considered boastful? ... then anyone who posts 'new discoveries' in the game are being being boastful ... i don't believe this is so


my own journey tanking to 50 basically two times is a testiment to myself that i am indeed able to tank as a mnk to lvl 50

i understand that most people are skeptical and demand proof ... i am not trying to convert you ... if in the course of what i hope are good discussions in this thread you are converted .. then so be it

i feel my OP was very specific and unambiguous

i am confident of my mnk tanking abilities

i am looking for discussion with other mnk tanks to improve my skill, not to discuss why you think i cannot tank

if i'm successfully tanking in game, there is nothing you can say to me that will change that


two questions that i can see that has been asked of me directly i was hoping to answer in my journal posts ... that will take some time .. so i'll answer them briefly

* how did i raise my guard skill? ... at one point i deleveled from about 50-36 to cap guard ... then i skilled up on EM-T for my guard ... this is the brief answer i'll try and have a more detailed log in my journal

* xp/hr ... as all pickup pt's go, you have good parties and bad ones ... pt's i make myself, i have found to be seldom 'bad' ones

... two parties that i main tanked, sticks out in my mind

... one was in CN secret room ... the place was overcamped ... but my puller was superb ... mob kills rarely took longer than 2x vokes ...

... the other pt that was noteable was in basement garliage ... seekers were very limited but i was able to gather 4x jp ... i tanked bats and beetles in the basement for chains

since i don't parse, i'd guess that both pickup pts i'd say were 4k+/hr range


the only thing that will convince me that i can't mnk tank is when i fail as a tank in a good pt ... that has not happened yet

perhaps i didn't chose the best title for this thread ... i am looking to discuss mnk tanking with mnk tanks ... NOT to prove to people that i can tank

discussing mnk tanking if you don't tank, does not bring insight

discussing guard with mnks that don't lvl guard, does not bring insight

etc ...


if you are going to bring your opinions into this thread, please at least have some specific personal experience with the topic



jingy

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Ever hear of a skill up party Jingy, deleveling from 50-36 seems abit drastic. Thats how most people i know have done it. And on the whole monk tanking, im fine with it, if theres no tanks up (which in my experience this has happend alot lately).
More the time I think that a monk can tank. Just not as effectively as war, pld, nin. Heck i think back when the game first started rdm was even an acceptable tank going /war. (but dont quote me on it cause ive only heard it)

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Guys.. read this lj.

http://genomeffxi.livejournal.com/

tanking can be done, but I don't think Jinghles is the man to preach it.

I've had a friend from Shirt Ninjas Travel Agency on Phoenix explain his Monk tanking style as well... however, it requires not only a vastly different party setup to normal, it also requires the Monk tanking to be vastly more on the ball with what's happening, gear swap more than a decent Thf or Red Mage...

*and*...

It also requires the party to up their game to the same levels as well...

Yes - Monk tanking can be done. But - the majority of White Mages aren't happy putting that much work in (see the favouritism for Ninja over Paladin as tanks - because they need to do less work). It requires the party to be in a state of attention, not just *one* player. No autoattack and macro occasionally while watching a film.

I look at what Ayasu (STNA Monk - Phoenix) does - and think very cool... but if I were playing a support class and *knew* I could get easy rides from the regular tanks, or work my socks off for *exactly* the same exp an hour... I'm sorry - I'd probably pick the easy ride too. >< I guess that's why I keep playing Thief though... I know I can't ever get complacent about my role in a party.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

Well, Jingy, the reason I'm asking for details is because I'm a WHM who is starting to see more and more MNK tanks for various reasons. I have little experience with playing MNK, so I don't know what thier needs are, nor - obviosuly - do I have much experience keeping them alive as tanks. PLD and NIN all have thier little tricks they do, and what they want WHM to do, and what they expect from other party members.

I guess I'll just ask someone else in the MNK forums since apparently I won't actually get information from you on MNK tanking.

[Jinghles]

Re: Jingy on mnk tanking ... guard/counter/etc...

well seven

i'm not sure how to answer your 'how to cure a mnk tank question' without sounding patronizing

by lvl 68 you should have a good feel yourself on how to cure your tank

when i pt as a main healer on my mage jobs, pt member have complimented me on my performance so lemme list how i would cure the tank in my pt:

* regen at every opportunity

* never overcure ... ie, don't use cureII to heal 30HP

* use the lowest MP cure to keep the tank safe from being one~shotted

* a good tank, i am not struggling to cure him

* a bad tank, drains my MP too quickly, i pull hate, i have to use bigger cures


personally, when i tank on my mnk, once the pt gets into a groove, i rarely even look at my HP bar ... the damage/cure/mp cycle/dyanmic balances out nicely in a good party


what i've brought to my pt's when i've mnk tanked is very good hate control ... i don't remember one mage death in any of my parties due to my loss of hate control, so i must be doing something correct with my tanking strategy

because i control hate so well, my DD in the pt can hit as hard as they want

remember, i am talking about a 'good party' ... any tank will perform better in a good party

but it's rare that a good tank can save a bad party

i hear ppl say that mnk tanking works only situationally, i dun quite understand that ... a nin or a pld will also struggle in a bad party, would they not?

i believe my mnk can hold hate better than any nin my lvl ... again, holding hate better means maximizing DD's damage output meaning shorter fights

i believe i can hold hate better than any pld my lvl ... again shorter fights

i don't parse, but my strategy uses +acc, theoretically i hit more often for damage than pld's or nin's my lvl ... my trop punches don't give wow numbers but in any given minute, i feel i do as much if not more damage than a tank my same lvl

many have advised that post lvl 50 the game changes, i am very aware of that and i will surely look for this when i get higher lvl

if you reply with comments from higher lvl experiences, i simply cannot debate that with you ... i am only lvl 50

i'll try and update my journal today ^^



jingy