Dodge does... nothing?

[Wiseman40]

When I first started playing a monk a read a guide that said that dodge boosted your evasion by a not-noticable difference.
Indeed it isn't noticable, but I had thought until recently that there was a difference, but that it was simply far too difficult to calculate through appearance alone.

I was slightly upset to see today that dodge doesn't actually change your evasion value.

Although the effect of dodge is 'evasion up', my evasion does not change.


The only thing I can think that may be going on is that it's raising your cap... which would be pointless...

Does anyone know exactly what's happening here?

[Caspian]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

It won't show on your evasion skill, just like +evasion gear doesn't change your skill in the menu. So calculating dodge isn't something that can be easily done (if at all).

[Jarre]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

When fighting worms at lvl 20 in Quafim, it did make a difference to me as a tank (mainly because I kept hate very well with boost, provoke (war sub) and dodge. as each gets more hate)

[aegina]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

there are a LOT of abilities in this game that make such a small change it's hard to see a difference...

[Alauna]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

Here's a trick to try. Go find some EP or DC mobs. (worms are perfect, so i can run away if need be, and they dont hit very hard.)

attack, but dont kill, (if you can) and let them swing at you 10, 15, maybe 20 times without Dodge on.

Then, repeat (hopefully on the same mob, or atleast same "check" (high def, low eva, whatever)) with Dodge on.

If all goes well, you should see some results (albiet not major-massive-oobr results). For better results, do this 20-50 times.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

Here's a trick to try. Go find some EP or DC mobs. (worms are perfect, so i can run away if need be, and they dont hit very hard.)

attack, but dont kill, (if you can) and let them swing at you 10, 15, maybe 20 times without Dodge on.

Then, repeat (hopefully on the same mob, or atleast same "check" (high def, low eva, whatever)) with Dodge on.

If all goes well, you should see some results (albiet not major-massive-oobr results). For better results, do this 20-50 times.

Yep that would do it. I'm nowhere near interested enough to go through that much trouble though. I think I'll just assume it helps.

[Tsikuro]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

The thing with all of these studies, is that none of them are accurate at all.
Even if you do it 1000 times.
There is a dice roll behind every action, and even after 1000 times of doing the same thing, luck plays such a large factor in all of this that any conclusion is rendered obsolete.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

Random number generator ftw, then?

Dodge helps out, but not a huge amount. I've noticed a change to my evasion rate when using it both as a Monk and as a Warrior while tanking/farming. It won't save your ass, but it may help keep you alive a bit longer at times.

[Aeni]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

Dodge helps out a lot in counterstance. Or that's what a 75 MNK friend who was fully merited to cap said to me. All I know is anything (+eva) will help with counterstance. w

[Mithrael]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

+evasion hurts counterstance ><

the check goes something like this:

1.) evade
2.) shadows from blink
3.) counter, parry
4.) shield block, guard

You can't counter on an evade, you can't counter while you have shadows up. This is exactly why guard is so difficult to skillup.

[Karinya]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

The thing with all of these studies, is that none of them are accurate at all.
Even if you do it 1000 times.
There is a dice roll behind every action, and even after 1000 times of doing the same thing, luck plays such a large factor in all of this that any conclusion is rendered obsolete.

This is why some very smart people invented statistics... the most misunderstood branch of mathematics in the world, but it's actually very useful if you know what you're doing with it.

It's possible that you would be unable to show any significant effect even with a sample size of 1000, but you don't have any basis for saying that without looking at the data.

Of course you can still be hit while Dodge is on - if it were perfect, it'd be Perfect Dodge. But that doesn't mean that it's useless. You can still be hit while wearing an emperor hairpin, but that doesn't stop NINs from trying to get them. If it turns out that the effect of Dodge is no greater than an emperor hairpin - well, at least you don't have to pay millions of gil for it.

[kuu]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

+evasion hurts counterstance ><

the check goes something like this:

1.) evade
2.) shadows from blink
3.) counter, parry
4.) shield block, guard

You can't counter on an evade, you can't counter while you have shadows up. This is exactly why guard is so difficult to skillup.

I think that's changed, or was never really the case.

You can parry with shadows up, and shield did I believe(not sure on new shield system).

Counter though seems to be on a lower level then shadows.

[Armando]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

I don't think you can shield with shadows up after the patch. I believe that Counter can only occur on a hit that would only have been completely successul (not parried, shielded, evaded, blinked, guarded, or anticipated with Third Eye.) It would make sense given the nature of the ability, how it's worked in previous games (you couldn't counter without being hit) and from personal experience, the one time I used PLD/MNK in 30-cap Ballista, I hardly Countered at all but I did shield very frequently. I haven't actually done any hardcore testing but I'm inclined to think that's how it works.

I *think* that the priority is:
Evade > Parry > Shadow absorbs attack > Shield/Guard (Lol...can you do both if you fight with your main hand bare and your sub hand shielded?) > Counter > Fully successful hit.

As far as Dodge goes, it's far from useless. From personal experience I did notice improvements when I used it solo against DC mobs, and the one time I did Ballista 30 against a MNK he became noticeably harder to hit with Dodge up too. It's not something tremendous but it's there, and it helps. Considering others have found Focus to be Accuracy +20, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how much Evasion Dodge gives (after all, they both last 2 minutes, don't they?)

[Taskmage]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

The way Counter works in FFXI is more akin to Hamedo in FF:T. If a melee attack was attempted on you, it would be canceled and you would return one of your own.

If shield does take priority over Counter then {That's too bad.} It doesn't really make sense to have the less effective damage prevention take priority. Could it be that you blocked more than countered as pld/mnk simply because your shield skill was very high and the proc rate of your counter very low? If that were the case it'd be difficult to tell which is taking precedence over which.

[little ninja]

Re: Dodge does... nothing?

The thing with all of these studies, is that none of them are accurate at all.
Even if you do it 1000 times.
There is a dice roll behind every action, and even after 1000 times of doing the same thing, luck plays such a large factor in all of this that any conclusion is rendered obsolete.

im shocked to see that others are posting the same thing ive been saying for 3 years now.. there is nothing like a lvl 32 mob hitting a 75ninja even when he has parry capped an eva capped. this only makes me believe that everything in this game is based on a random factor..