Monk and Opo Opo Crown

[Beener]

yar this monk in my LS got opo crown before any of our bards, says it enhances the effect of meat chiefkabobs

sounds like he's full o shit, anyone hear anything about this?

[Sharma]

I thought it was a Universal effect on all foods?

[Whatguy]

I heard it has a universal effect on all foods, meaning it enhances the potency of all food effects.

[Redlimit]

MNK may not get a lot of beneficial headgear, but there is always a better alternative to wearing Opo-opo Crown in an EXP PT situation.

Even if the Meat is enhanced, you still get -7 CHR from the Crown(which has been proven to affect all of a MNK's WS besides Shoulder Tackle).

Its just not worth using unless you are going to benefit from the +7 CHR or +50 MP by using a Pamana.

[Halato]

"(which has been proven to affect all of a MNK's WS besides Shoulder Tackle)."

You are kidding right? I'm a galka and I've never been outdamaged on any weaponskill by a taru or hume, and they are high charisma races.

Proven? By a friend of a friend's uncle who knows a JP translator? /boggle

People come up with a new use for charisma every week.

[tdh]

Originally posted by Halato
People come up with a new use for charisma every week.

Thanks Halato, I was just about to ask about this. If that were true, maybe I should actually buy Absorb-CHR and give it a try...

[Halato]

I know my post sounded angry, but it wasn't the intent... So far I have heard, on boards:

-CHR effects ALL Bard songs, and this is not true. It effects DEBUFF and SLEEP bard songs.

-CHR effects Charm success and duration. I assume this is true.

-CHR effects Emnity. I tested this with a hume PLD friend of mine. He had 26 more CHR than me and every single test which ever of us voked first got the mob. (meaning, second voke won't turn the mob without damage.)

-CHR effects your resistance to being charmed by mobs. (Seems to make sense)

-CHR effects how much NPC pay you for loot (lol!)

-CHR effects some weaponskills (I'd agree it could effect some.)

I just don't believe CHR effects monk weaponskills since we get no growth in that stat. I've read that VIT effects dragon kick and Asuran, which I would believe because Monk's get huge VIT growth, and so much of our job gear gives VIT.

The two jobs in this game that have CHR growth have clear reasons why.

Of course, I'm also a galka so I *want* to believe VIT effects those two skills. If there really is proof I'd love to see it- I have an open mind about these types of things... But it's outlandish enough that I'm not going to take someone's word for it.

[Redlimit]

Note that its not a "OMG LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE" change in the damage in relation to CHR, but it is still affected by it.

Try it sometime. In the endgame, MNK (and a lot of other jobs) have access to a lot of gear that adds CHR. Good examples of this are Panzer Mask and Koening Knuckles. Both of these together give +7 CHR. Your WS damage from that alone will go up by about 5%-8%.

NOTE: This is not to say that you should go out and load up on CHR. In fact that is counter-productive because most CHR items share equipment slots with items that give us Attack or STR, so while you are raising your CHR, your STR and Attack will suffer and your WS may actually end up losing power.

The reason why Panzer Mask and Koening Knuckles are safe is the weapon and head slots don't generally give boosts to STR or Attack.

This is more of a 'oh I never knew that' kind of discovery, more than a 'lets see if I can use this to an extreme advantage' one.

[Halato]

Panzer mask and Koenig knucks are both Beastmaster useable. That's why I think they have +CHR.

-Panzer Mask is +5 CHR and 2% haste and has a tiger skin model... stinks of BST to me. Monks use it because we love haste gear, and it looks cool.

-Koenig Knucks, while less than optimal for a BST of that level, are the highest damage H2H weapon they can wield (+19). I've never seen a monk toting these around.

I'm not trying to poke holes in your arguement, I just haven't seen any practical reason yet as to why CHR would increase monk weaponskills. H2H is a complicated enough weapon as it is without throwing in a strange stat, too. H2H does break a lot of rules other weapons have to follow, and that is on CHR's side... But... I just don't see it.

[iglak]

The two jobs in this game that have CHR growth have clear reasons why.

what about PLD and WHM? both have a lot of equipment that gives them CHR, and both have relatively high CHR stats.

and SMN has as much CHR as BRD, and DRG has as much CHR as PLD and WHM. (according to this stat calculator)

and why would only 2 jobs need CHR? that's stupid, there is no reason to make CHR useful for only 2 jobs.

someone else mentioned that CHR has a huge effect on Dragon Kick's damage, although i don't know if that's true.

and actually, MNKs only have only averagely high STR, despite the job's need for as much STR as possible to deal the most damage per hit.

I just haven't seen any practical reason yet as to why CHR would increase monk weaponskills.

have you experimented with that?
(i haven't, i need more gil >_<

[Redlimit]

I did experiment with it. I got curious about it when I read an interview with some of the FFXI designers (it was on a JP gaming news website...I'll see if I can track it down but it is several months old), and he said that some WS were affected by CHR.

Now as you know, WS have corresponding elements to them (well, I mean everything in the game does, but thats besides the point). It is also beleived that different stats affect WS as well.
Open up your WS menu to see the different types of WS. They will be indicated with different coloured squares.

Take H2H for example. All of them have a gray square beside them except for Shoulder Tackle (which is purple). This means they are all affected by the same thing.

I tested with all of my Attack and STR items off - doing WS on many types of mobs, then doing the same WS on them with some CHR equipment. The difference isn't huge, but it is noticeable. With about +10ish CHR you can get up to 10% more damage sometimes (WS damage is almost nearly random at best, and many of MNK's are multi hit).

Again, it is NOT worth your time to pimp out CHR instead of STR or Attack. I wouldn't even worry about it during leveling up at all, since 99% of the CHR equip you have access to as a MNK is 70+.

[Monkor]

There was a monk on Midgard who did tests with +CHR. He said the damage wasn't up that much, but he didn't have as many resists on the light chain when he had CHR gear.

[Halato]

"what about PLD and WHM? both have a lot of equipment that gives them CHR, and both have relatively high CHR stats.

PLD and WHM both have high CHR because it helps protect from being charmed. The are both 1) jobs that cripple a PT when charmed. and 2) the jobs most likely to have the hate to get charmed. PLD, besides being a parties main tank, also has "Resist Sleep" Job Trait making them very hard to handle when charmed. Whms... I'm sure you see the danger there.

"and SMN has as much CHR as BRD, and DRG has as much CHR as PLD and WHM. (according to this stat calculator)"

I think this is because they are pet jobs. I know a DRG can be charmed... But I'm not sure how it effects their pets. And... would you want to eat a summoners 2 hour? I used to think getting charmed by mobs was like winning the lottery, but last week I saw 2 people get charmed: An LS PLD fighting Pallas, and a Monk in Dynamis-Bastok. If you like to do EF's, you see it a lot there, too, if you aren't careful.

"and why would only 2 jobs need CHR? that's stupid, there is no reason to make CHR useful for only 2 jobs."

All jobs can use CHR in the way listed above. Agil is a largely useless stat to most jobs except ranger, ninja, and thief. You can make cases for other jobs (PLD because it effects some defensive skills) but other stats always yeild more in the end. In PLD's case, VIT. Can monks use AGI for it's defensive abilities? Sure. Does it make sense? No.

Anyways, my damage variance on Dragon Kick is anywhere from 250 (if I whiff a kick) to 1000 on IT mobs right now, I just don't see how you can say anything effects skill chain damage by 10% without a very, very, very long series of tests.

Like I said, I'm not exactly refuting your findings, I'm just saying, I'm not going to wear the crap that is Koenig's Knucks without anyone doing real tests on the effects of CHR. I'm not going to test it because I haven't personally seen any information that makes it seem plausible to me. I could be totally wrong, it wouldn't be the first time... But the whole reason I started argueing is because, like I said above, on Internet forums, I see a new use for CHR every week. I just seldom agree with them ^^

For all I know, CHR is largely a ballancer stat. You know, empty filler for jobs that extra firepower or should have very limited damage from the main player. (like pet jobs and DEF oriented job).

[Redlimit]

You were given two people who have tested CHR. I tested it for the better part of 4 days, and you are telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about?

Forgive me if I sound upset but you have been presented what is otherwise irrefutable proof that CHR helps with both H2H WS damage and renkei resists.

I also said that it is NOT worth your time to worry about getting CHR gear for this purpose alone. I wore Panzer Mask because it gave 2% Haste, and Koening Knuckles for the good mix of +DMG/+Delay/+Acc....the fact that there is CHR on both of these items is a BONUS. In order to get a very noticable difference you would have to wear gear that raises CHR but it would be in the place of equipment that was giving you STR and Attack (among other things), and this is counter-productive.

On a side note - I did a fair bit of dynamis and if you were in range of the NM's AOE charm, you were getting charmed 99% of the time even if you were a BRD pimped out on CHR gear. Dynamis mobs are massively higher in level than you, so resists based off of stats are going to be extremely rare.

[Halato]

Ok, I can tell you are getting a little heated up about it, and I can understand why. However... I like debating, so if you are going to get upset as I present arguements, it's best you don't read any further.

"You were given two people who have tested CHR. I tested it for the better part of 4 days, and you are telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about?"

No, I'm given you, and a friend of someone. I also know someone who's brother's friend's stomache exploded from drinking Coke and eating Zots. I can easily test that +MND effects chi blast due to the nature of the attack. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, you seem like an intelligent fellow. You aren't explaining yourself very well about this and why you believe it effects your skill and renkei damage, though.

"Forgive me if I sound upset but you have been presented what is otherwise irrefutable proof that CHR helps with both H2H WS damage and renkei resists."

It's ok to sound upset, I'm disagreeing with you and I'm being persistent about it. I know that's frustrating.

But be honest, you aren't giving me irrefutable proof- as a matter of fact, you aren't giving any proof at all. You are saying, "I say it is so, I tested it, why don't you believe me?" And I'm saying, "Please show me the proof."

-The fact that some high level non-specific monk gear has +CHR on it does not indicate it helps monks. Many AFs, which actually are job specific, have seemingly random bonuses on them, such as a warriors full AF suit granting a whopping +1 to INT. Furthermore, no other pieces of the eastern armor sets have +CHR on them. No Monk only H2H weapons (the ones geared for damage) have +CHR on them.

-You telling me you tested is not the same as saying what type of mob, what level mob, what weaponskill, what party configuration, what skill chain used, what job opened the skill chain, how much TP, any debuffs on the mob, any change in the day's Element or many other things that can effect the number of variables.

-No parsed logs.

I just can't understand how you can quantify a 10% increase in damage from CHR given the fact that my normal damage variance on a weaponskill is well over 10% anyway.

I'm sure this post will just fuel the fire, so flame me if you want... But I think as a Monk we have to question and evaluate things. It took a long time to show people that the job wasn't gimp, and we went against the grain, leveled it anyway. I think it's great you are experimenting with stats to see what bonuses they may grant... I mean, someone figured out Chi Blast was Mind based, and I'd be having the same conversation with that person that I'm having with you.