Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

[Ridgual]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

I think we can all agree that it doesnt really matter what race you are, every job is manageable with the proper equip and items. As far as labeling people as cookie cutters based on their job/race combo, well that label cannot be applied to one's gaming style. I am a galka dark knight, but to tell you the truth, along with Tdh, i dont see that many galka drks out there. And, I plan on becoming a galka white mage when my dark knight path is done. So my playing styles vary i guess.

[shisnos]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

I'm at level 46 MNK and I'm a Taru.. it doesn't matter what race you are as long as you can do your job in a party. So, don't hate.

[UnnamedGalka]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Yes, it is true that Taru are not built with MNK in mind, as they have the lowest base STR, HP and MND of all the races.

But really, these racial disadvantages are only noticeable very early on in the low levels. Once you gain levels and start collecting better equipment, the hardships that your race imposes begin to diminish significantly.

By the time you reach the endgame, race plays a very minor factor as far as effectiveness goes.

So an Elvaan's Chi Blast inflicts 50 more points of damage on Kirin than yours. Whoopdy-freakin-doo

[Icemage]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

HP (and to a lesser extent, MP) are really the only limiting factors at end-game for any job, and even those can be mitigated by good gear and/or merits.

Taru PLD and NIN have to struggle a lot harder to get enough HP to handle end-game activities - it can be done, but takes much better gear and merits overall to perform as well as higher-HP tanks.

Galka mages suffer in the other direction - they can get over 1000MP at level 75 with some work, but again, takes a lot more energy for them than a Taru mage who might start with nearly 900MP in the tank unmodified, and have to work a lot harder with equip macros to swap in more useful non-MP gears once they deplete their tank.

Melee jobs - meh, hardly matters. A handful of stat points here or there doesn't make much difference at end-game for melees in the long run. Gear and playstyle are much larger impact here, though it should be conceded that Taru Monks never quite catch up to equally equipped monks of other races due to base deficiency in STR, HP, VIT, and MND. You can make up for them with gear to an extent, but I don't think the currently available gear will let a Taru MNK hit equivalent stats to an equally well equipped Elvaan MNK. As long as the Taru MNK has good gear though, they'll be more than adequate for anything that needs lots of bashing in.

Overall, all races "can" perform well at all jobs. The main differences are the minimum threshhold of skill/gear at which you become adequate.


Icemage

[locus]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Melee jobs - meh, hardly matters. A handful of stat points here or there doesn't make much difference at end-game for melees in the long run.

Dear Icemage:

Please play a Samurai to level 75.

Thank you.

[Icemage]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Dear Icemage:

Please play a Samurai to level 75.

Thank you.

Are you referring to the noticeable WS damage increase that samurai get from higher STR (particularly combined with Sneak Attack)? I don't deny that there is a measurable difference, but in the grand scheme of things when doing end-game activities, the numerical difference in melee damage becomes less important than the tactical play involved, as long as people are at least at "adequate" gear quality (maybe my definition of what is adequate at level 75 or end-game differs from most, though).

The numbers matter, but I'd much rather have a Taru SAM who has reasonably good gear and makes good decisions than a completely pimped out Elvaan SAM who can't complete a skillchain consistently. The former might not get me there as fast, but the latter is likely to get me killed, which is much worse.

Assuming the same skill level, of course you'd want to have the person with the most damage, but race is the one thing you cannot change in FFXI (short of levelling another character... which some people do), but if that difference in damage or MP is going to make or break your effort in a given activity, you've got bigger problems than having Taru melees or Galka mages.


Icemage

[Puerilis]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Skill > Job > Level > Gear > Race

If I know someone seeking even if their job isn't something the Party needs, If I know they are a good player I'll invite them, As long as it wont hinder my party too much to do so. And most of the time I'm rewarded for such actions.

But down in the down, Gear Vs Race. GEAR is more important. I can testify to this.

When I was leveling Ninja on my Elvaan, I was Duoing with another Elvaan. Same Exact level, *Matter of fact, we were leveling on the same kill*

I had somewhat minimum for Nin Gear, mostly all AGI and Evasion Gear Minus Leeping/Emp Pin. She was Completely Decked out with stuff I could never hope to afford (at the time).

Her shadows would last her atleast 10 attack turns against Goblin Smithies, give or take 2 or 3 for double attacks. While mine would last me 2 attack turns. Basically, I would voke just so she could recast Ut. Then she would revoke, or the Thf would SATA it back to her. Depending on the situation.

Keep in mind we were Exactly the same in Race, Job, and Level. Using the Same Food (We were sharing) Yet she evaded more, and did more damage then me, And I was almost capped on everything.

[Jei]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Skill > Job > Level > Gear > Race

to add to this,
Good skill will lead to good gear No good players will use gimped or unapropriate gears.
but good gear doesn't lead to good skill.

[Omni]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Dear Icemage:

Please play a Samurai to level 75.

Thank you.

i love these sort of quick smart replies.

some people think that their job is so different or so special that it breaks the norm of melee or mages.

if you're so petty to boast about i did 35 more dmg on my fuidama-gekko than you did because i'm elvaan then you know what, heres a cookie for that 35 dmg because obviously dropping a tachi-gekko for 1060 vs a taru dropping one for 1025 means race matters oh so much.

here is a great example of a taru sam who i admit has the best gear possible for sam but if you read on, nodachi who is also an awesome sam in his own right has similiar gear as well. he is an elvaan sam and he admits that supastar's numbers are on par with his. par meaning = or if you want to take it liberally: pretty damn close. if you care to read about it here is a handy link for you: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sam...me.here._.html

so really, icemage doesnt need to level a sam to 75 to understand this.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Icemage and Omni are right. All others are wrong.

Edit:

Locus, or Iocus, however the name is spelt, come up with a better arguement if you want to talk about Icemage.

[Celenios]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Didn't really read much, but posting in response to OP.

You can't delegate people to those 3 types.

If somoneone wants to be the BEST SAM for example, Elvaan will be a better choice than Taru (Elvaan will simply have the better stats, HOWEVER neglible this difference maybe it does not change the fact Elvaan have a slight advantage over Taru). If both a Taru and ELvaan SAM put the same dedication into getting the best gear, food and knowing what to do, then Elvaan will always have that, however small, edge over Taru.

However, this does not mean that they're blindly following a guide and unable to make decisions for themselves.

Just to make it clear, I believe race should generally be the last detail to factor into gear/food choices.

Skill > Job > Level > Gear > Race

to add to this,
Good skill will lead to good gear No good players will use gimped or unapropriate gears.
but good gear doesn't lead to good skill.

[Murphie]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

I am a huge advocate for playing the race that you like the best. I've learned first hand that if you don't like your character model and race, you won't be happy in the long run. Yes, there are some races that are more naturally inclined towards certain jobs, but in the end, it's all about how you play, and someone who is dedicated to doing their best is going to succeed at any job, no matter what their race is.

[kenshin-san]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

There's not a whole lot of skill involved with playing Monk... Since Monks will all wear the same equipment the difference between race will always be there, but that doesn't mean you can't be effective! Taru Monks will still be a Monks, but the limitations will be in the race. Don't forget about meriting as well!

[Suichi]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

Any race can play any job, simple enough.

Albeit I've never taken heat for being a Taru Monk. Sure the difference is there. But it's not that great a difference.

And of course,

Skill > Job > Level > Gear > Race

[Dryhus]

Re: Flaming of Taru MNK and Others = WRONG

I doubt that many people pick a race and job combo from the beginning of the game simply because they want to be original or revolutionary. I think most people pick a race and job separately because they look/sound cool. Maybe they think Elvaan look slick but like doing magic damage a la BLM. Other people, like myself, research how appropriate a race/job combo is. I liked the Elvaan race and RDM job moderately, but I was willing to give and take and choose another race or job accordingly. As it turns out, Elvaan RDMs work decently, by sheer coincidence.

The fact of the matter is that people change jobs. You can't chastise them for that. I've played Elvaan BLM (and well, I might add) because I needed to level it as a sub for my RDM. I did enjoy it, and I'll probably take it much higher than 37 or 40.

In that vein, is it not feasible that a 75 Taru BLM gets burned out on magery and wants to try something else? Is he not allowed to level MNK? Is the 75 Galka MNK not allowed to level WHM to 37? Passing up a Galka WHM in the Dunes and then scoffing at the 75MNK/12WHM Galka's poor Chi Blasts isn't fair.

If this was a game that let you change your race without affecting other aspects of your character, then everyone would have a largely valid point in chastising Taru melees, Galka mages, Elvaan SMNs and BLMs, etc. Fortunately or unfortunately, you're stuck with whatever race choice you made from day one. That race is going to make it really easy for you to play some jobs, and it's going to make it a real challenge to play others. EVERYBODY will at least dip their toes in both ends of the spectrum. As for anybody who hasn't and won't try a job that is hard for their race to play....well, they're enough in the minority that they may as well be persecuted themselves.