Announcement

**Montana** · 08-16-2004, 03:29 PM

I know fighting crabs suck for MNk's so i Boyhada you can fight crawlers instead.. you can SC with induration so the BLM still can MB Frezee..

**Brennon** · 08-16-2004, 06:04 PM

I hear ya, Kama, it has been rough. I've had two *really* great parties since lvl 50, and the rest i've just forced myself to stay with, even if it sucked. Exp is exp, i figure.

I'm not sure where a good place for lvl 55 to level on bones is, i went to garlaige from 52-almost54 and it was great, but that's probably slower now. . . maybe we can try to take a 2mnk party to . . . somewhere. . . this weekend if you're up for it. How about it? ^^

**Redlimit** · 08-16-2004, 06:37 PM

45-60 is a no mans land for just about every melee damage dealer, not just MNK. We feel the squeeze a bit more with lack of good skillchain in popular EXP areas, but invites drop drastically in this range for over 1/2 of the jobs in the game.

60 marks the key turnaround for MNK though. Take what EXP you can get, it all adds up. At 60 you become argueably the best renkei opener and trick partner available. There is a smooth progression up to 65 and Dragon Kick, where level 3 action starts to set in, and you will likely see your first true bone parties.

70-75 is a breeze as MNK. EXP in Tomb (and even in other places than tomb) is made simple with a good MNK, able to form light and dark chains as required with a large newfound compatibilty with many WS's.

**JayblahX** · 08-17-2004, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Montana
I know fighting crabs suck for MNk's so i Boyhada you can fight crawlers instead.. you can SC with induration so the BLM still can MB Frezee..

This is complete misinformation and typically a lingering stigma that Monks have been unable to shake due to noob-gimped geared Monks in Valkurm and Qufim. The crab stigma is too old, and I've been disproving it to myself in-game time after time.

Fighting crabs suck only for Monks who neglect STR and ATK. As a Galka who focuses heavily on both, I can confidently say I've never been outdamaged on crabs excluding a Sidewinder'ing / Barraging RNG and of course, good BLMs.

Anyway...

-----

Also, about the level range, I strongly stress Monks to make parties at this level. You simply are among the least desired melees at this stretch because not only are invites slow for all classes, but you can't make the Distortion renkei most efficient parties look for.

Learn to make your parties at this level range if you really want to earn XP at a respectable pace. Logging in and sitting with your thumb up your arse for 2-3 hours dreaming about an invite is a waste of your time. I've been making parties since level 10 through level 75 and achieved my final level at a very respectable pace, particularly for a melee job.

I just wish we got more starters or enders before howling fist. Because even though I love MNK if I was starting a party I sure wouldn't invite one at this level.

Keep in mind this is exactly what PT leaders are thinking when they see a Monk on seek. It may sound "cruel," but when you as a Monk lead a party, you in essense force people to group with you. Its a win-win situation: You get a PT, and lazy people (90% of the population) get to relax while you build an intelligent party that can work well despite a shoddy renkei.

Make your parties, Monks.

**specialk** · 08-17-2004, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by JayblahX

This is complete misinformation and typically a lingering stigma that Monks have been unable to shake due to noob-gimped geared Monks in Valkurm and Qufim. The crab stigma is too old, and I've been disproving it to myself in-game time after time.

Fighting crabs suck only for Monks who neglect STR and ATK. As a Galka who focuses heavily on both, I can confidently say I've never been outdamaged on crabs excluding a Sidewinder'ing / Barraging RNG and of course, good BLMs.

Anyway...

i am sick of hearing this as well. more and more i hear 'monks are only good against bones...'. completely untrue. i've taken JayBlahX's route as well and have gone nuts with +str and have never had a problem with crabs, beetles, ants etc.

with a competent brd in the group i began wearing my brown belt more, only wearing life belt with no +acc buffs. the dmg dealt is insane.

anyone who has never played as or with a properly equipped mnk should never comment on what type of dmg they do - they simply have no idea and are either making shit up or puking up the same shit that somebody else made up.

**KamaAina** · 08-17-2004, 01:39 PM

Come on guys... sure MNKs aren't terrible agianst bones what I am sure he meant was we can't start distortion and our one lvl 2 renkei that we can do good (fusion) sucks vs these. And don't give me that you are better vs. crabs and everything else and no one has ever outdamaged you unless it was a nuke happy blm or rng.

Can't you just say MNK's aren't that bad vs. crabs?

Back to the topic I do make a lot of my own parties. But I don't like doing this because I don't like making bad parties, or even mediocre ones. So unless I see a good Nin seeking (someone to SC in my place since I can't) I just don't start party. That or if I can find a bard and good pld tank, and just rely on raw dmg. But I am not going to build a crappy party with a MNK, a DRK, a WHM a BLM, a RDM, and a PLD fighting robber crabs, where everyone leaves hating my guts for putting toegether such a horrible party.

Oh and I would love to do that this weekend, I am trying to get to 57 so I can slip into my scorpion harness right now, (well.. if I can get it price is going up by like half a million per sale right now.. /sigh)

**JayblahX** · 08-17-2004, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by KamaAina
And don't give me that you are better vs. crabs and everything else and no one has ever outdamaged you unless it was a nuke happy blm or rng.

Can't you just say MNK's aren't that bad vs. crabs?

Why would I bother lying to you to fit your inaccurate perception? I've experienced everything I needed to in the XP grind, and I know exactly what I am and was capable of. I know full well what the Monks sore-points are (you seem to forget I've been through all the level grind you are experiencing) such as lack of optimal skill-chaining for their early life.

Sorry, but I'm not dumbing down my experiences to suit you.

Nonetheless...

Regarding your fear of being hated if you make a bad party: It happens, though most rational people won't fault a Monk of all things for a bad party. I've made amazing parties, but there are nights when no one but scrubs are seeking, or you invite a crappy member unknowingly. No one is perfect, and much of the time, it takes only one rotten player to fuck up a party. I feel the same way you do in this regard, as I feel responsible for a party's downfall if I made it. The truth is, on your road to 75, you'll experience terrible parties, and great ones regardless if you are the leader or not. So then, why not make all your parties just to minimize the possibility that the party is trash?

KamaAina, you seem smart, and surely know what makes a party work and what doesn't at this stage of the game I would assume. Its only logical if something is bothering you, such as your lack of invites, you do what you can to correct it, right?

So correct it! All melee characters, not just Monks, should learn to become party leaders if they want to break the mold of sitting around with seek on for hours.

Yes, it can be hard work.
Yes, it requires patience.
Yes, it can be frustrating.

But in the end, you are leveling while other melees who sat around like slackers are being outleveled by you, then you can't help but smirk and appreciate your efforts. And it all stops at 75, when you get your buffer and truly begin to experience the best parts of the game without the stress of needing to level.

**Montana** · 08-17-2004, 02:45 PM

(this is gonna be hard to explain in english!) each weapons have different styles like Polearm, dagger and arrows are piercing.. i dont remember name of what Hand-To-Hand is.. but grappling is bad vs crabs just like piercing suck vs skeletions.. its not about n00b MNK's in Valkurm.. its about how the game was made... and when i ws with a MNK in boyhada i did notice damaging difference beetwen crawlers and crabs...

**Brennon** · 08-17-2004, 02:57 PM

Logging in and sitting with your thumb up your arse for 2-3 hours dreaming about an invite is a waste of your time.

I wholeheartedly agree. I usually farm, or craft, or someother such thing when seeking party. Anyone not intelligent to use /sea 54-56 inv all isn't someone I'd want to PT with anyway, most likely.

And I do try to make parties as much as possible, which recently hasn't happened much, since everytime I see who's searching in my level range, its about 4 Dragoons, 17,000 Dark Knights, 2 or 3 other Monks, *maybe* a red mage/white mage, or black mage, a a thf or two. When i see a Ninja, no thief is present. When i see a Paladin, no mages are present. So, i just go farm and wait for people to find me, and when I *do* get an invite, i gladly go and try my best to impress the hell out of them.

I think for myself personally, I've got another disadvantage (though perhaps only a slight one) in that I took a few months off from leveling monk, and alot of the people i used to PT with quite regularly, and knew what *I* was capable of are all well past lvl 60. . . .Which, i guess is fine, really, because I've gotten some good help with my AF now ^^

Kama, I was looking through different zones, at the mobs in then, and the only zones i found that had bones that would even be close to are level range are Gustav and Toraimarai Canal, and they're probably a level or two too high for us yet. (i think those bones i was looking at go up to lvl 67 in both zones.) Maybe I overlooked some somewhere . . . and maybe the fallen mages/fallen majors in garlaige will still be good exp. It was still good exp with lvl 54's in the PT, but maybe one more level will kill it, i dunno. Anway, send me a /tell and we'll try to come up with something.

**KamaAina** · 08-17-2004, 02:59 PM

What Montana said its not that Monks suck vs. crabs. It is that we are stronger vs. other types.

I know you have expierienced this grind im going through (so have I with my RNG and I partied with MNKs some who were very good).

I think when you play a job that you love its easy to think wow this is so great, MNKs are the best ever. lol thats how I think, in fact in my opinion I do more damage with my monk then I did with my RNG (my opinion).

But a well equiped and good DRK is just as good and in some situations better then a MNK, same with RNG.

Im just saying lets not go everywhere saying that we do more damage then everything else in the game and every damage dealer should just be monks cause what is that going to accomplish besides having some DRK come in here agian and tell us how much DRK > MNK.

MNKs are not bad vs. crabs at all if you the attack to counter their defense.

Monk is a great job, the reason I like it is because coming from RNG/WAR I did great damage probably as much if not more then any other job, but as soon as I did I got smacked around. I have a very fun time playing monk, I get to use all these great abilities, and instead of getting smacked around I use counterstance and my +8 counter and smack it right back. It is a lot more fun for me then RNG, and I enjoy playing it. I don't have to say that it is the best job in the game, I just have to say that I like it and this is why.

Now no one could get mad at that, I am not saying Monk is better then RNG. Monks are great, DRKs are great, even DRGs can be great =P it depends more on the player then the job I think.

But at this level monks are really limited by skillchain choices, and this hurts our invites and how good we are in parties. The best parties at this level (aside from having a NIN as tank, or fighting bones) will have another job. Just like the best bone parties will have monks^^.

You would have to level up another job and get to expierience these parties to see what I am saying. Most of the parties I have been in as monk so far stunk, we hardly got chain 5, and 6 .. well just forget about that. As a RNG it seemed like everygroup I got was chain 5's and 6's rolling through xp, great skillchains, even when the other member's maybe weren't that great we still did good.

I think this is the way that MNK will be post 60 I just think that 50-60 sadly isn't exactly our place to shine.

**Ungerpurr** · 08-17-2004, 08:39 PM

I honestly don't know why people have such a hardon for distortion vs. crabs. More often than not I see distortion get half-resisted on them because they are strong to the water half. Also, why MB Freeze when you can MB Burst (level 56)? Distortion is, no-doubt, really nice starting at the mid-30s (when thieves' WS damage trumps everyone else, hardcore) and throughout the 40s (where they still have an advantage, and you take it home against crawlers, beetles, flies, etc.).

But crabs...yes, they're weak to ice, but they're strong vs. water, reducing your Distortion SC damage. Also, as anyone can tell you, ancient magics are less efficient than normal nukes...as well as the fact that a blm without ice staff at 51 / AF gloves at 54 is going to be getting resisted quite often with Freeze, even ON a MB.

What people need is an education on what monks can do...a well geared monk in the low 50s (snipers, life belt, jujitsu gi, etc.) can be simply devastating with raging fists, yes, even against crabs, doing in the 300-400 damage range (without bard), which is just about as much as the average thf. Put a monk together with a decently equipped samurai, ranger, or warrior, and you can throw out some nice Impaction chains, which will MB nicely with thunder 2 for around half the damage of a freeze MB, at less than 1/3 the MP cost. Granted, in a TP-starved PT, Freeze MB is a godsend, as it puts all the eggs in one basket (which is a good thing if the blm doesn't suck), but a well-geared monk coupled with a well-geared impaction starter (specifically samurai and ranger) will be easily tossing out a skillchain per fight, if not two.

People are just so enamored with distortion skillchains that they aren't willing to try anything else, it seems. But a good Impaction skillchain is just as good; you can get to 65 easily on impaction skillchains (although Dancing Edge definitely makes higher damage skillchains than Raging Fists - especially on birds).

I can't speak really for what happens between 60-65, I got so burnt out after leveling to 60 that I haven't tried xping for the past month (seeking for six hours without invite? (Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.)). I'd imagine that you can still get by decently with impaction, or try your hand at a rocking fusion skillchain with sneak/trick + howling fists. Imho the drk + rng combo really comes into play at 60, also, with guillotine -> sidewinder.

Anyway, the point is just that you shouldn't get bogged down on the fact that you can't participate in distortion at your level, as it's definitely not the end-all-be-all skillchain. Personally, I can't stand grouping with thieves. My gear is not built for me to be a trick buddy, or a voker to set up the trick on the tank. The one time I did play the distortion starter in a group, I ended up taking 600-1000 damage at the start of every fight because I had to voke at the start, and the thief absolutely blew chunks and wouldn't even ready his sneak/trick until I'd already taken two rounds of damage, THEN he'd enter attack mode...and 2/5 the time he'd miss his trick attack...

Don't get me wrong, a well-geared, well-played thf is a good thing to have, but thf is a VERY easy job to play poorly, and I'd rather not take my chances. Now, a well-geared war/nin + me doing distortion...that'd be a lot of fun, I think.

I hate being the trick voker.

**Biterman** · 08-18-2004, 12:13 AM

/sarcasm I am not a big fan of Mithra that arent what they are supposed to be, RNG or THF's. I mean, a Galka or Elvaan bigger VIT would help them tank better for 2 turns with a crappy THF, correct?

I'm not a big fan of taru tanks/melees, or galka mages. I don't see much point in bashing them. I simply wouldn't invite them.

Right Ungerpurr?

**AkumuX** · 08-18-2004, 09:54 AM

Biter, why are you stirring up the shit? You're completely off-topic, aiming to piss someone off, and quoting a quote that wasn't made in his/her last post.

So...please explain to me what you're doing here.

**KamaAina** · 08-18-2004, 11:55 AM

Well I hit 57 almost to 60 thank god. Got my scorpion Harness (but I am rethinking my choice of a subligar because... it looks a little too skimpy).

So I started a pretty group last night it was DRK, RNG, MNK, RDM, RDM, PLD. We got pretty good xp, I just sub'ed RNG for BLM and had them SC with DRK.

And your right distortion isn't everything Fragmentation ending with sidewinder is the best SC until lvl 3's in my opinion at least. But oh wait.. we can't start those either. We can start detonation with RNG.. whoopie lol. But we just had them sc and me solo RF. It was pretty good, the 2 RDM's made up for blm cause of 2 bursts.

I start parties a lot of times, but the only time I will start one is A. I see a tank, and a RDM seeking. B. I see a bard (lol). I am not going to wait around for hours trying to form a group and I dont expect others to do so either. If no one is seeking I have plenty of other things I can do while I wait, someone who has nothing to do while seeking come to me I will show you something. I don't even have my little tiarra yet, I was more concerned with getting my harness and now I want to get rid of this ugly thing on my face that makes it look like I have a beard.

And Gustav is a lil high for us bone pt's there start at 66~67 I think. Unless there are some other bones. Someday we should definatley kidnap some people and force them to do a bone party lol. BLM or someone with escape is a must though hehe.

Announcement

50-60 leveling monk is depressing

50-60 leveling monk is depressing

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment