I was told Monks become desirable at 60+, and yet its not true so far.

[JayblahX]

Yeah, its me again. Kind of frustrated, and venting my frustrations here. Its a long post, and I normally don't like making topics like this. Making topcs like this undermine the class for readers who might want to try Monk out. I certainly don't want to hurt our Monkly reputation the way the DRG-forum as killed the reputation of DRGs. Thank you to anyone willing to read further.

Basically, its like this:

I equipped myself as well as I could and put every ounce of pride and power behind my Monk. He's turned out to be quite a force, and I've even been told by many of my peers that I am amongst the fastest levelers they have seen.

I took my Monk to 61 almost entirely through my own efforts, as I put together virtually every party up to that point.

At 60, I began to hope that maybe I'd start getting invites, and lo and behold, a point came where I was offerred a static party.

At first, I didn't jump at the offer simply because I made it to 61 quickly on my own, I figured I could do my own thing and make it to 75. Then, I just decided to go with it.

The static is set up as follows:
Ranger
Monk
Bard
Red Mage
Black Mage
Warrior (/NIN)

Virtually everyone in the static is a good player. We all have respectable gear for our characters. The Ranger even happens to be in one of the dominant HNM LSes on our server. As you can tell by our setup, the party is very very strong. Our first time together, at Valley of Sorrows, we were getting not just Chain 5, but Chain 6 consistently. This is not just because of the Ranger mind you, but through all of us. I know for a fact that I pull my own weight because I can pull aggro off the Warrior/Ninja (and therefore the RNG) at times. I'm not saying I outdamage the RNG (not at all, considering Barrage and Sidewinder). I'm saying I pull my own weight. This first grouping was on Friday.

Well, now we shift to Saturday. Our BRD makes a camp choice blunder and things go bad. We end up wasting a lot of time between a poor camp, and a few deaths. People are agitated. Our BLM and BRD happen to also be somewhat assholish, as they lash out when frustrated. It turns out as the most expendable member of the party (after all, I'm just a melee), I end up becoming a scapegoat of sorts. This despite what I consider myself to be a non-vocal non-whiny member of this fledgling static party. Go figure, bratty Mages. Who'd have thunk it?

So now its Sunday. I'm told by the member I'm "closest" too (the WAR/NIN, who began this static party with intention of me being in it) that there's "some shit going down." Apparently, the BRD (and to an extent the BLM, but mostly the BRD) want me out of the static. The BRD even issues an ultimatum to the WAR/NIN saying if they don't replace me with a DRK, he will leave and will take the RNG with her. Now a brief note: I have no idea where the BRD gets off speaking for the RNG, but he did it anyway. As of this point, I don't know how the RNG feels. As far as know, the RNG doesn't even know the BRD until our first grouping. Hell, most of the static doesn't even like the BRD (even the static leader thinks the BRD has "issues.") but because he's an oh-so-important BRD, you can assume we endure it. I do know the RNG is disappointed with our skillchain (Howling Fists > Sidewinder). I bring this up because the main reason the BRD wants me out is because "MNKs and RNGs aren't compatible." I just don't get it. RNG and MNK can make powerful LVL 3 skillchains. Not only that, but our party was consistantly getting Chain 5s on any target we decided to fight. If we are already raking in the XP at such blistering speed, with both myself, the BLM, and the RNG outputting such good damage, why does it matter if our skillchain currently isn't ideal? In 4 levels, the LVL 3 skillchain goodness begins. I just don't get it. I sacrificed my time for this set (I play more than they do, so I could've been level 63 by now if I applied my time over the weekend) and now am being strongarmed into leaving. The WAR/NIN is in a tough spot because he can lose me, or lose the "valuable" members of the static (BRD and RNG). The reason the RNG is valuable is because as mentioned, he's a bigtime player on Ragnarok (HNM LS), so they obviously don't want to tick him off, as its an oppurtunity for them.

This is why I say I'm being scapegoated. The static had a bad day on Saturday, mostly because of the foolish camp chosen by the BRD, and I'm the target of their frustration because I'm expendable. The excuse is lousy: Poor skillchain. I already outlined that our killrate is so fast, what does it matter? In 4 levels, RNG and MNK become a great team, so I just don't get it.

I logged off frustrated last night when all this began to unwind on me. I'm pretty certain I'll log in today and find out that I've been ejected from the static. All in all, this has been a huge disappointment to me.

I wish I could change things, but I can't. Can I be angry about it? I guess. But what will it accomplish? I can legitimately feel betrayed (mostly due to the WAR/NIN who I actually was fond of), but he's busy sorting this mess out, I can understand him just wanting to save his own ass in the static. I guess in the end, people are truly selfish and do what benefits them. I guess I'll just grin and bear it, and continue doing what I've been doing on my own.

Thanks for listening.

[Fourinkmaaya]

sounds like the bard has been fed bullshit from elvaan drks from san d'oria
"and this time i did sata guillotine for 5000dmg!!! i only use zerk/lr/se for ws, it's the bestest! i pwn"

[Jifan]

The bard is a clown. Why the hell would someone want to bust a PT that consistently gets chain 5? Moronic bard. As for wanting a DRK to replace you... rofl. The bard knows nothing.

[JayblahX]

That's what I don't understand Jifan, and that's why I'm so annoyed by all of this... drama.

It doesn't make sense.

As I said, I know the RNG (probably the most dominant/prominant member of the static by virtue of being a bigtime HNM LS member) was not happy with the skillchain. I know this for sure because he expressed his dislike of it on his Live Journal and yet in that same entry, he also expressed how thrilled he was with the static. He felt we were very capable, and we sure gave him a good impression.

I don't know why they are running with the skillchain as an excuse to replace me. I know for a fact I didn't do anything wrong when it comes to other things. I'm so quiet in the party that there's really nothing to hold against me personality-wise in-game.

My biggest opponent seems to be the BRD. The BLM is neutral but also made a snide remark about the skillchain sucking, since bursting Water off the Reverbation renkei isn't "efficient" for the targets we fought. I guess the BLM doesn't care if I stay or go, because he's not going anywhere. He just wants the static to proceed. The RNG, I haven't heard anything from his side of the story, but I can assume the worst because as I said, he doesn't like our skillchain. Again, in 4 levels, RNG and MNK become very compatible LVL 3 chainers, and yet they just can't get past a Reverbation chain of Howling Fist > Sidewinder? Ugh.

The WAR reassures me he's trying to salvage my position in the party, but I don't get that impression from him. I think he's also just saving his own tail and I can't fault him. After me, he's the most expendable.

Its just... disappointing. At this point, the party's comraderie is probably damaged even if I do say. I mean, if I get to stay, I'll be grouping with people who tried to kick me to the curb.

So disappointed. That's really all I can say.

[Xephoid]

the story is...

Unfortunately, you can't really second guess anybody with just 1 side of the story.

Personally, I would think the set up MNK + RNG isn't a bad one.

The only problem I can see is that later on, you can't really go on a bone party with this set up (unless the ranger use guns). But that would be the same problem with a DRK/THF replaceing the MNK.

Anothing thing is, this set up forces the MNK to sub /THF. And MNKs hate subbing THF, because it's just so much more gimped compared to /WAR sub (with double attack kicking in left and right, and berserk, these 2 adds a good 30-50% damage over /THF sub). But if you can live with being a MNK/THF until 75, then again it's not much of a problem.

Honestly speaking, yes, DRK/THF would work a better with a RNG between 60-65.

But if you want a really good party that will last you until 75. Kick the ranger and get a DRK/THF, and keep yourself as MNK/WAR. LOL. :D

60-62 raptor in valley of sorrows, doing howing fist > sickle moon for powerful distortion SC.
62-64 cockatrice in cape terrigan, same distortion skillchain. Or lab of onzozo for toramas, but distortion doesn't work so well on them.
65-67 Boyada tree on Processionaries, doing dragon kick > cross reaper for distortion.
67-69 Gustave tunnel on Doom guards/warlocks, since you got a war, go with mitral axe > SATA dragon kick, or better yet, spinning axe > raging fist for fusion > spinning slash for light.
70-75 King ramp's tomb, same bone fighting goodness.

[JayblahX]

What I described is in fact the entire story in a nutshell. I'd like to see anyone from the static say otherwise. I'll even mention to the WAR when I log on, to this thread. I doubt he'll be able to dispute its validity.

Also, I was fully aware and intending to sub /THF for the benefit of my party. I dislike subbing /THF, but its a party game, and you do what benefits the party, not yourself. That's what I always held myself too, atleast.

I was leveling /THF subjob in my spare time. Like I said, I was putting in my time, and making sacrifices for the benefit of the party, and I get this nonsense sprung on me.

Bone party is not an issue for me. I'll go wherever the static would've taken me. I do just fine damage even on non-bones.

And the RNG being kicked out is the farthest thing from anyone's mind. I've already explained why, I hope.

[Thark601]

so far my set party experience has not worked out whatsoever...

i'm a strong damage dealer, i have as good of gear as anyone who's playing there first job to 75...
and i know how to do my job...

set pt #1 mainly ls members, 1 quits, other was just lvling a lowbie job (50 lowbie job lol) so he could lvl with his cousin...
his cousin quits the game, he no longer wants to continue the set, it breaks

set pt #2 well this is sorta half a set... mnk, pld, whm, pickup the rest, works out really well cause all we gotta do is find a refresher and damage, it's nice but they lvl too slow... only lvl on weekends only get 1-2 lvls a week max... and sometimes they don't lvl at all... it's about as fast as setting around jeuno seeking pickup pts, but i still do it when i'm not ahead of them in lvl

set pt #3 also another ls pt, close to my lvl, once again i'm a prime damage dealer, but theres a thf in the pt and he won't let me be a part of it because "thf > mnk don't renkei well"

so in conclusion all set's have done for me is been a huge huge waste of time... i'll continue to lvl with #2 when i get a chance because i really like the ppl, and it's fun partys, but i just wish i could lvl faster...

[Xephoid]

if the ranger is the immobile piece

Then, i can see why they want to replace the MNK. They are thinking in term of selfishness and for the long term.

Of the top 3 damage dealers. MNK, RNG, and DRK. And if you are stuck with a ranger for sure, then DRK and Ranger are the best bet. Reason as follows.

(1) hate keeping
(2) skill chain compatability
(3) total damage

Let me explain:

(1) hate keeping. With a ranger blasting away, you need someone with trick attack. DRK/THF's SATA ws is somewhat stronger than MNKs, especially with bard to pump up the accaurcy, SATA guillotine/sicklemoon/spinningslash is just stronger than howlingfist and dragon kick. Peels the hate right off the the ranger and backonto the tank.

(2) these 2 will always have good leve 2 skillchain, and good Light chain at their disposal. Guillotine > sidewinder for fragmentation, sidewinder > sicklemoon for distortion, and arching arrow/heavy shot > spinning slash for kicker light chain. While MNK can't do the 2 former SC, and light chain isn't as strong since SATA dragon kick is weaker than spinningslash (average) on anything not bone based.

(3) MNK/THF isn't any stronger than DRK/THF on anything that's not bone type. Without /WAR sub, means no double attack and no berserk. Leaving them doing similiar normal damage but DRK/THF pulls ahead when time to do skill chain and can boost with souleater. MNK/THF is really only good on bones. On anything else, DRK/THF is at least equal if not higher total damage wise.

Since you said that RNG is a fixed member, then if you follow this logic through then yes, DRK/THF would fit into the set party better. Although a MNK/THF wouldn't be that bad either. And if the RNG is a bow user, they probably already resigned to the fact that they won't be doing bone parties, but going to kufdal tunnel and ro'meave instead. And if they do go to ro'maeve that's DRK's specialty against arcane type monster, so all the more reason to take a DRK into the party.

Selfish? yes. Illogical? No. I wouldn't boot a static party member over a skill chain. But I guess if they are exp whores, then yeah, they are figureing it correctly. Sad really.

[JayblahX]

Selfish? yes. Illogical? No. I wouldn't boot a static party member over a skill chain. But I guess if they are exp whores, then yeah, they are figureing it correctly. Sad really.

I think you are right. Its the BRD who behaves this way. As I said, I can't speak for the RNG, as I haven't heard from him yet, but I do know he wants to level fast (and who doesn't?) but otherwise is a pretty relaxed guy. I somehow doubt he's pushing for my removal, but maybe I'm just too optimistic.

I guess its a matter of selfishness. Even then Xephoid, it still doesn't make sense. Its very hard to top constant, nonstop Chain-5s. We literally just chain all night, our party is that efficient. Even without an ideal skillchain, we are capable of pulling in so much XP, and yet the BRD is still strong-arming me out.

I mean, just how much can XP get better than what we already pull in? I highly doubt much at all. I'm not petty enough to make these people my enemies, or to harass them if I do get kicked. Yes, my respect will drop for some of them, but I doubt they care. I suppose I'll just lick my wounds and continue, what other choice do I have? I just think what's being done here is wrong.

Its just confusing and again, disappointing.

[Xephoid]

if you can pulling c5, then nobody should complain

C5 is all that an exp party can ask for. If you can do c5 on every chain, then you should be pulling in 4K an hour, provided the mages don't have too much down time between chains.

Any party that can rake in 4K an hour, crappy skill chain or godly SC matters not, I'm happy. Don't know what they can complain about. Most make shift party can't even break 3.5k an hour.

Really though, I don't really expect much difference between MNK+RNG or DRK+RNG. Maybe one get 4k, one get 4.5K. You have to be pretty annal to kick someone from a static party over 0.5K.

[JayblahX]

Yes, Xephoid, that's the point I've been wanting to get across. At its core, its simply a dumb reason.

I will be pointing out this thread to the static leader once I log in after work, and even if nothing changes, atleast the WAR/NIN will know how I feel.

Its easier to articulate my feelings on here than in short multiple /tells in game.

Well, I'm going to get back to work. Thanks all.

[Jaggywaggy]

Regardless of SC you're getting 5 chain xp.

1. That's good xp

2. You obviously don't need HQ SC to chain 5

3. At 65 or 66 or whatever, you will probably be chaining 6 due to massive boost in SC, this is what I'd argue to stay in. "If it's chain5 now without good SC, what'll you think will happen once we can SC well together? "

[Macht]

There are tons of charts and other stuff online that shows a MNK's DoT to be almost compairable to a RNG. When it gets to the Bone parties the charts show MNK and BLM surpassing both RNG and DRK in DoT. A RNG would have to use guns to be decent in that party. Before lv. 60 the charts show DRKs power to seem to be lacking were MNKs is quite strong. After lv. 60 the DRKs WS redeems their damage again, but it doesn't make it like something far superrior to MNKs at all.

Anyway as far as charts have shown a few pre 60's charts you can find on this forum. To me seems very silly to be blaming it on you, you've taken the effort to improve your abilities so as far as charts will show you should be able to match a DRKs damage over time. The thing I see people forgetting is the hate systems functionality. They see the DRK's 1 powerful hit being better then what a MNKs hit would do as being better to pull hate.

The thing is though that 1 powerful only is bringing DRK up to par to match the DoT. So the hate system after RNG gets aggro should be something like:

1. RNG
2. Tank
3. MNK
4. DRK
5. ......
6. ......

Once DRK uses that SATA with his WS then it just barely puts the hate he gets over the RNG. The MNK should be just as effective since his place in the Hate system will generally be around just under the Tank. The RNG and DRK only create spikes under the Tank in the hate system, so for brief moments they will be just under the Tank but the MNK will general be just under the Tank more consistently. So with that said the MNK doesn't require a hugely more powerful attack with SATA to pull hate away.

[Lilith]

Not many people know this but,for lvl 65 and above hunting stygian pugils before the cloister of tides in rancor den gives crazy exp, they hit harder than the P crawlers in boyahda and cockatrices in terrigan though.Getting theres a pain,but the exp is so good if you got a good pt of brd rng etc,you can chain on em all day.Made 24300 exp the other day there

[Xephoid]

the idea

Macht:

The idea is you want to strongest WS to put the hate onto the tank. Not how much hate you have on yourself. SATA dragon kick against an IT mob, a good one get you 800 + 800 light, totally 1600 hate onto the tank. Mean while, a DRK/THF with a good spinning slash will do 1000 + 1000 = 2000 hate dumped onto the tank. The difference might go away when fighting bones, but that's bones only.

MNK/WAR will out damage DRK/THF hands down DOT wise. That's plain to see. MNK h2h countes as 2 attacks, so you get crazy amounts of double attack kicking in, way more than the slow single swing scythe. And beserk adds 25% attack to them, so they adds a ton of damage to a MNK/WAR.

If you do a MNK/THF, you lose all that. Without double attack, they aren't swinging much faster than a DRK/THF with greatsword. No berserk, the 2 punches aren't powerful either. MNKs really don't like to sub /THF because /WAR sub benefit them way more than any other job.