gloves gloves gloves....

[LordBiGGs]

i have some questions on what gloves to use. i'm a hume mnk so being a hume i have those great damage dealing rse gloves (+3str +3 dex). so my question is should i use these or the kote. i'm guessing kote is better when you can first equip them, but then the rse or AF gloves will be better. i'm used to paladin where vit is more important than def because i already have like 500 defense so another +10 is nothing. but i'm not sure at which point str will become more important than attack.

[Ungerpurr]

Without getting into the damage formulae, I can tell you without a doubt that kote are the best gloves you can have through at LEAST the mid-50s. I have tried enkelados' bracelets (+7 str), and they can't compare to kote.

Also, keep in mind the ATK -> Damage Done curve is the opposite shape of the DEF -> Damage Taken curve. Attack gets more effective, not less, as you get more of it (until you reach the vertical part of the curve).

Defense Curve:

.||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |
..|||||||||||||||||||||||||||| \/
....||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Damage Taken
.....|||||||||||||||||||||||||| |
........|||||||||||||||||||||||| \/
............|||||||||||||||||||||
......................||||||||||||||
........................................|

-> More Defense ->

If each dot represents a certain amount of defense, and each lower line of dots represents reducing damage intake by say, 20% compared to the previous line, you can see that you need far more dots for each line as time progresses. As you reach the bottom of the curve, +vit is more effective, as it moves *the entire curve* down, rather than just progressing farther along the curve.

Attack Curve:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||.
||||||||||||||||||||||||||.. /\
||||||||||||||||||||||||..... |
|||||||||||||||||||||......... Damage Done
||||||||||||||||................ /\
|||||||||.......................... |
|.....................................

-> More Attack ->

In this case, each dot represents a certain amount of attack, and each higher line 20% more damage done than the one before it. What you see here is that you actually need LESS increase in attack as you get higher up the curve to get MORE effect. In this curve, +str is the most effective at the lower parts of the curve, when your ATK is greatly lower than a monster's defense.

The question is, can you get yourself into the upper parts of the curve with enough +ATK? If you can never get into the upper parts of the curve against xp mobs, then yes, +STR is probably a better bet (as is evidenced by +STR sometimes outperforming +ATK vs. things like crabs). However, if you're already fighting something that you're in the upper parts of the curve against (say something with lower defense, like bats, or mandragoras), swithing from +STR gloves back to kote will likely yield more damage.

At level 61, the average monk has around +40 ATK worth of gear available to them (kote, spike earrings x2, amemit mantle). Is this enough +ATK to get into the upper half of the curve? Theoretically, using damage formula, we should be able to figure out what a particular mob's str, vit, ATK, and DEF values are, using a parser and analyzing the distribution of hits. However, this is much more difficult in FFXI than in other games, such as EverQuest, since you attack (and are attacked) far fewer times in a given frame of time in FFXI than in EQ.

Short answer: get kote, you'll love 'em.

[Funguwari]

Originally posted by Ungerpurr
Without getting into the damage formulae, I can tell you without a doubt that kote are the best gloves you can have through at LEAST the mid-50s. I have tried enkelados' bracelets (+7 str), and they can't compare to kote.

Also, keep in mind the ATK -> Damage Done curve is the opposite shape of the DEF -> Damage Taken curve. Attack gets more effective, not less, as you get more of it (until you reach the vertical part of the curve).

Defense Curve:

.||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |
..|||||||||||||||||||||||||||| \/
....||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Damage Taken
.....|||||||||||||||||||||||||| |
........|||||||||||||||||||||||| \/
............|||||||||||||||||||||
......................||||||||||||||
........................................|

-> More Defense ->

If each dot represents a certain amount of defense, and each lower line of dots represents reducing damage intake by say, 20% compared to the previous line, you can see that you need far more dots for each line as time progresses. As you reach the bottom of the curve, +vit is more effective, as it moves *the entire curve* down, rather than just progressing farther along the curve.

Attack Curve:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||.
||||||||||||||||||||||||||.. /\
||||||||||||||||||||||||..... |
|||||||||||||||||||||......... Damage Done
||||||||||||||||................ /\
|||||||||.......................... |
|.....................................

-> More Attack ->

In this case, each dot represents a certain amount of attack, and each higher line 20% more damage done than the one before it. What you see here is that you actually need LESS increase in attack as you get higher up the curve to get MORE effect. In this curve, +str is the most effective at the lower parts of the curve, when your ATK is greatly lower than a monster's defense.

The question is, can you get yourself into the upper parts of the curve with enough +ATK? If you can never get into the upper parts of the curve against xp mobs, then yes, +STR is probably a better bet (as is evidenced by +STR sometimes outperforming +ATK vs. things like crabs). However, if you're already fighting something that you're in the upper parts of the curve against (say something with lower defense, like bats, or mandragoras), swithing from +STR gloves back to kote will likely yield more damage.

At level 61, the average monk has around +40 ATK worth of gear available to them (kote, spike earrings x2, amemit mantle). Is this enough +ATK to get into the upper half of the curve? Theoretically, using damage formula, we should be able to figure out what a particular mob's str, vit, ATK, and DEF values are, using a parser and analyzing the distribution of hits. However, this is much more difficult in FFXI than in other games, such as EverQuest, since you attack (and are attacked) far fewer times in a given frame of time in FFXI than in EQ.

Short answer: get kote, you'll love 'em.

THAT is the reason why I love chatting on these forums, everyone has a good, honest opinion. They give wonderful answers that have wonderful explanations and not just saying, "the kote is better kkthnxbye".

Anyway, back on topic:

According to this: http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/...iew.asp?Id=209

2 STR = 1 Attack, 2 DEX = 1 Accuracy. So that means Hume RSE gloves will give you a 1.5+ in both Attack and Accuracy, which isn't bad at all! But... the Kote... much, much better, that's 20+ Attack. When I put Attack+ gear rather than STR+... I can see more of a difference.

According to that article... (these #'s are a EXAMPLE to try to prove a point): if your MNK default does let's say... 50-60 DMG per fist, put some STR+ and your MNK will now hit from 50-65 (but you can still be hitting for 50 DMG and you can sometime rarely see that 65!), now take off that STR+ and go back to default, which is 50-60 DMG, and put Attack+ now. Now you'll be hitting for 55-60... see? The overall damage output is higher w/STR+, but you can still be hitting for the lower part of the "equation".

What you really want to do is this: Get the Kote, you'll see a immediate difference. And equip some STR+ on the side. That will raise your overall damage and the Kote will help ALOT to hit in the higher part of the "equation".

Hope this helps.

[Halato]

All I can say is that after multiple attempts at using the kote and the AF gloves I have yet to see a noticable difference at level 61. Perhaps it's just the randomized values of battle, but I found myself switching to the AF gloves to boost for chi blast and then not bothering to switch them back.

If Pallas's Bracelets were a bit cheaper I'd buy them, because frankly I think str is the biggest damage determinant for a monk. The cost for those bracelets is a real limiting factor though because then I have to spend more on accuracy.

The pretty standard set up around level 61 is:

sniper ring
sun ring
lifebelt
kote/AF

But I really think this would be much more damaging (although slightly less accurate):

sniper ring
sniper ring
brown belt
Pallas's Bracelet

I know this only slightly applies to the original post because you are level 61, and I can tell you that from the levels of 34-55 kotes are the way to go. Absolutely nothing else you do can effect your damage as well as the kotes.

The problem at level 61 is that your attack is soooooo much higher at that level and +20 really becomes about 5% bonus to attack instead of the +10% or so.

Add in that and the fact that my weaponskill damage is higher with AF and chi blast more effective... I just prefer the AF for now.

[Thark601]

because frankly I think str is the biggest damage determinant for a monk. [/B][/QUOTE]

thank you

+19 str and i'm elvaan.... just one snipers ring and +11 dex... I wear AF gloves, and i don't plan on getting kote.....

What I have noticed is that with the combination of both high STR and high DEX i generally outdamage the monks that go all ATK... of course at my lvl i can get away with only +9 acc from my jugitsu gi, and 1 snipers ring, but i may need to buy a 2nd snipers soon

never heard of Pallas's Bracelets Halato
I'll have to look them up

[Halato]

Pallas's Bracelets aren't for everyone.

+9 str, -5 agil, -5 dex, level 60

That really intimadates some people. If I can ever get a hold of a peacock charm or spectacles, I'm certainly going to be wearing it.

If you look at several different gear combinations, I think the ones with Pallas's always comes out on top... unfortunately, most *really* great combos would require some of the costlier accuracy gear like spectacles or peacock charm.

[Thark601]

i tried it for a lil while with the +8 str -4 dex -4 agi ones... and to be honest with you loosing that much dex really hurts... i'm happy with my af gloves tho, so i think i'll stick with them, gimped in terms af ATK? well +5 a peice from earings = 10, so untill 61 when i get a Amement +1 and have +25 attack i suppose i am a bit low... but the str is more important to me than a overpriced, status item

[Ramen]

STR seems to make a much bigger difference when fighting crabs, beetles, and hard shelled monsters, which seems to be what I've been fighting in nearly everly single XP PT since 50 ; ;

I've used Kote before (34-50), but sold them in favor of a sniper ring and Enkelados for this reason. We seem to be able to get ATK so easily through food, berserk, etc, but when fighting Crabs/Beetles you really dont wan't the mobs VIT being higher than your STR. This is the first part of the damage equation, and by far the most important IMO for monk. No silly random unknowns, 1 point of str will always be 1 point more damage (until a point that is hard to get to)

Currently using:
Sniper Ring
Sun Ring
Enkelados Bracelets
Life Belt

Can't wait until those Pallas Bracelets . Even with the DEX penalty from Enkelados, I am still 67+1 right now on dex because I am Mithra

[Ungerpurr]

Doing alright on kuftal crabs currently with kote. Granted, I group with bard, so that kinda throws everything off. ^^

My best RF so far against crabs was 424 (6-hitter). My best 5-hitter was somewhere around 380. My average 5-hitter is about 300. My average number of actual HITS per RF with +17 accuracy (and madrigal) at level 52/53 was around 3, usually doing 150-200 damage, which really isn't that bad, all things considered.

Next time I get into a group that I know will last for a while, I may try 20 fights with kote, 20 fights with enkelados's and see how they stack up.

[Thark601]

Unger the funny thing is that's pretty similar to my dmg output A. without brd B. using brown belt... meaning my Raging acc wasn't so good and i'd bet my average hits where slightly higher than yours as well due to my high STR

[Aneyeisuponyou]

I bought Pallas bracelets recently and I'd have to say .... I don't know if they are better .. they cost 600k on my server while kote cost 400k. I think it seems to help overall dmg, WS seem a little smaller. One thing though kote sorta help Acc since they can change the con of a mob from high def,normal,low def etc. Anyway I know it's not much help but that's what I've realized so far. Oh and just got spectacles too, definately a good combination it seems, hitting King's skele's so much better now worth the bank bustin 1.3mil I had to shell out.

[Orsin]

Originally posted by Funguwari
According to this: http://ffxi.crgaming.com/interviews/...iew.asp?Id=209

2 STR = 1 Attack, 2 DEX = 1 Accuracy. So that means Hume RSE gloves will give you a 1.5+ in both Attack and Accuracy, which isn't bad at all! But... the Kote... much, much better, that's 20+ Attack. When I put Attack+ gear rather than STR+... I can see more of a difference.

Hope this helps.

2 STR doesn't = 1 Attack
The two are totally different and their only similarity is that they both do something to raise Damage.

STR raises your your damage curve's maximum and mininum damage. So let's say that your normal damage curve is somewhere around... 40-50 Adding more strength will make both those numbers rise. Although I do not know the effectiveness of 1 STR, I know that even +4 STR will raise both a respectable ammount.

Attack, on the other hand will raise damage in between that damage curve. So if you were often hitting for 45 and added +20 attack, you would more often be hitting for 49-50. (You still might not always hit for 49-50 but you would do it far more often.

STR is more effective than Atk anyday...
and I would definitely pass up +20 attack for +4 STR. And I would because Monk's need to raise their damage as much as possible, and the best way to do this is +STR.

I am still going to get the Ochiudo's Kote anyway... but once I hit 54 you won't see me wearing it any more... I'm gonna sell it and use the money I get to buy two Sniper Rings and then wear a Brown Belt for that +5 Str

[Ungerpurr]

I've been considering trying Pallas's bracelets at level 60. I think they may be a good choice at that level; I'm not really sure, though. I didn't think enkelados's bracelets were good enough to make the switch. Also, on Titan, pallas' bracelets are only 150-200k, whereas kote are 350-400k, so it would put some cash in the bank for me.

[Skygto]

2 STR doesn't = 1 Attack

yes it does, equip anything that adds 2 str and you'll also get 1 attack.

[Thark601]

Originally posted by Skygto
2 STR doesn't = 1 Attack

yes it does, equip anything that adds 2 str and you'll also get 1 attack.

it's just like dex vs acc... acc gonna make you hit more but dex gonna make you critical

str not only adds to your attack, but also increases your overall damage