Does ATK cap out?

[METDeath]

Mith, yeah i've noticed that my damage flat out caps at a certain point while farming, I think there may be a maximum damage cap for the level of the monster, but i'm not sure, i haven't reached the point on my mnk where i can do more than 100 damage per fist yet... right now, i can do a SA and crit 99, no higher, but then my thf sub is underlevled and i farm with str rings on, so that could be affecting it, i'll be leveling thf again pretty soon, so i'll try to remember to come back here and post if my damage goes up with increased str and dex from a fully leveled thf sub

[Mithrael]

I think there may be a maximum damage cap for the level of the monster, but i'm not sure, i haven't reached the point on my mnk where i can do more than 100 damage per fist yet...

No, I think it's really your maximum damage. It's the same for me on a lv.-1 Tiny Mandragora, a lv.30 Tiger, and a lv.39 Garnet quadav. I can land a hit for up to, and no more than 222. The formula says 219, which is why I think there is a rounding error, but 3 is a pretty small amount of error in a big number like that. With my Barbarian's Scythe, it was dead on. One possible explanation is that the formula may change a little at lv.61, like all of the other formulas in the game. I'll try to poke around a bit more, but in 8 hours of farming yesterday, I only hit 222 once, so i'm still willing to think that there is just a rounding error in the formula somewhere.

I understand you may be skeptical, and encourage people to be. If you find something to be untrue, please share your results. As I've said several times already, this is NOT my mathematical work, but I have spent a lot of time confirming it... Thus far, it has not been wrong for me on Scythe, Greatsword, Dagger, Axe, Greataxe, or Sword. I spent probably 4-5 hours testing each... My MNK isn't high enough level to really confirm that it holds true to Hand-to-hand weapons, since DRK has no skill in h2h. If you want to test it, go farm for 6 hours E.Sarutabartua and see if you can ever exceed the Damage Cap. You should be able to reach damage cap on tahrongi Dhalmels, but I don't know if you could on Bubu Dhalmels at your level, I honestly don't remember what level I started hitting mine.

The damage range includes my STR, ATK, and weapon's damage rating, but max damage doesn't?

Actually, it makes perfect sense, if you think about the design of the game. If you're a game designer, and you want to make sure that a character at a certain level cannot exceed a certain damage limit, there are 2 ways to do it. Limit it by level, or limit it by equipment.

Now, you can argue the level bit all day long, but if you actually go out and test it you'll see that this just isn't the case. Your maximum damage does not increase as you go up in level and continue to use the same weapon, even if your skill in weapon and all other equipment changes.

Note: This is not necessary true for hand-to-hand weapons, since gaining hand-to-hand skill increases your weapon power, even without changing equipment. If you were to roll over into the next damage level, your max damage would increase.

So knowing now that you need to limit it some other way, what is the fairest way? Well, STR seems to be out since a Taru would always be limited so far behind an Elvaan (14 points by lv.59). Attack is a possiblility since the difference in attack amongst races is halved, but it's still not equial. Besides, the only incentive the developers have for limiting such things is to prevent people from becoming too powerful. It's far too easy dump everything you have and only put on STR+ equipment, or to do the same for Attack. Too many pieces of equipment offer stat boosts to limit it this way, since you can wear equipment from any previous level. Limiting it by weapon guarantess that you canoot reach a certain potential until that weapon becomes available to you, and then everyone with the same job has the same potential. If you think objectively about the game for a bit, you'll realise that this fits the Square philosophy of game development very much. Everyone has the same potential, regardless of race, but some races have an easier time reaching the potential.

It's very suspicious when you go from lv.59 to 61, gain 7 points of strength and a bunch of attack, yet your maximum damage on Too Weak mobs doesn't change at all. It's not something I can show you, you'll have to find it for yourself. Due to the random component of damage mitigation, I may hit my "Maximum" damage once an hour while farming. That's probably out of 400 scythe swings. It'd be hard for me to provide "proof." Best way is for you to figure out what the formula says your max should be, eat a mithkabob, and go bang on stuff for a few hours and see if you ever drastically exceed what you should.

if I were using a weapon that had a 26 text damage, upgrading to 27 would not only increase my average damage but would increase the ceiling for SATA damage by 36(ish).

Increasing your weapon to another multiple of 9 will always increase your base damage, which is NOT multiplied by rate at all, (and sneak attack and trick attack have absolutely no effect on base damage,) by 3. AFAIK, there is no 'cieling' for SATA damage, see below.

Base Damage:
24 + 3 * int(26/9) = 24 + 3 * 2 = 30
24 + 3 * int(27/9) = 24 + 3 * 3 = 33

We know that Trick Attack makes it an automatic critical (ONLY a critical if subbed), so rate gets in the way much less.

Trick Attack does not induce a critical, Sneak Attack does. I'm guessing that's what you meant... I'm not sure what you mean by rate gets in the way less. You are guaranteed with Sneak Attack to always reach a rate of at least 1. That's why you sneak attack a mob way above your level and do some damage, while you may never actually hit it or do damage otherwise.

Further, adding DEX & AGI can easily reach maximum damage since it has the same effect as adding STR for normal attacks. In the end, it's only the dmg limit and the multiplyer that could possibly screw THF over. Getting your weapon to the next multiple of 9 would help tremendously, assuming the math's correct.

As far as anyone has found, there is no potential limit to damage with sneak attack and trick attack. DEX and AGI allow you to exceed your maximum damage, which is the only reason thief is so poweferul. If you were limited to the maximum damage, you would not be very desirable. Maximum damage on Daggers isn't very hot, and your SATA damage will generally triple the Max Damage :/

Anyway, DEX and AGI have nothing close to the same effect. STR increases static damage. The amount of damage contributed by STR does not change over the course of the battle unless your STR or the enemy's VIT changes.

DEX and AGI are multiplied by a randomly varying rate, they contribute dynamic damage. Because they are multiplied by some number greater than 1 (assuming you are capable of hitting the enemy for greater than 0), they will always contribute more damage to SATA than STR.

Easy example:
STR+20=20dmg added
DEX+20*1.1=22dmg added.

Even beyond that though, all of your DEX and AGI are added, not just the portion that exceeds the mob's stats. So if you're wearing DEX+20 and already have DEX of 80, then it's:
27(your dagger from above example)+100*1.2=152dmg added
The 1.2 is even assuming that you'd normally be hitting the enemy for 0, which is hopefully the case. Realistically, the 1.2 should be more like 2 or 2.5, since you're attack should be high enough to at least give you a Rate of 1 without the critical.

One other thing I've deduced that affects THF directly, is that it isn't worth wasting a ring on DEX or AGI unless you really need it. If you can get bonuses for them in your armor, go for it. Otherwise, use the ring slots for +STR. It directly increases your damage the same as DEX & AGI for SATA, but it also increases your damage over time. THF benefits from better average damage than better possible damage, just like MNK.

By higher levels, really pimped out thieves carry two sets of equipment. One for melee accuracy (for TP gain, since THF provides nearly all of their damage through SATA+Weapon Skill), and one for sneak attack and trick attack. STR cannot contribute, no matter how many times you hit, the amount of damage that DEX and AGI can when you SATA.

I havent been here in ages but i did come across something a long time ago i thought i'd throw in:
Q11312

Q Why ins't my attack strength any higher after equipping a weapon?
A Your attack strength depends on the skill level you have attained with the weapon you are using. The "DMG" value in the equipment list window represents the weapon's basic damage level. This is the value you can expect when your attack power is equivalent to your opponent's defense power.

Nice find, thanks for sharing. Basically, you can only expect your weapon to perform well when your skill is high enough (so that your attack is high enough) that your rate can equal 1. Then DMG*1=DMG.

[Balodoth]

Retraction

OK, I was misinterpreting a small bit of information. I went through and more or less translated the website for my personal perusal. I was basing everything off the Max Base DMG formula: 24 + 3 * round down(weapon's DMG / 9). The main reason I did this was because of the line saying "Thieves Backstub/Deceive attack bonus can NOT affect Base Damage Maximum." What exactly does that mean? The part about SATA is under the Combat DMG portion of the equation, but that line refers to the Base DMG portion.

Secondly, I have no understanding of asian languages, and don't really know what else is on that site. Are there other insights I'm not privy to? For instance, I was under the impression that the SATA multiplier was given to the completed damage formula. You're saying that the multiplier is applied to the DEX & AGI only with normal damage added in? If yours is the case, with no cap on damage through DEX & AGI, then equipment providing those is supreme. If the multiplier applies to the whole, as in my scenario, then STR has the same effect and also increases damage in normal attacks. Do you have further nuggets of wisdom for me?

In case you didn't notice already, THF is the job I'm focusing on currently. Which leads me to my next question. How does SA and TA interact? If their multipliers apply only to their respective stats with the results being added, then +AGI is useless unless you are farming. If the results are multiplied then +AGI is imperative as it increases the less-damage-doing TA and therefore further amplifies the higher multiplier for SA. From what I've pieced together so far, it seems that SA and TA simply add together. I would then use only +DEX since it helps my accuracy. Has anyone out there done tests yet to see the difference between +10 DEX vs. +10 AGI vs. +5 DEX & +5 AGI? And throwing +STR in the mix would help. The more I think about it the more I believe THF is an excellent job for testing the formula.

Quick point, the critical remark is from the fact that TA has a lower multiplier than SA--closer to being a critical hit--and also that many who sub THF say that TA is reduced to being only a critical hit damagewise. Somewhat misleading, I know, but I was throwing things out anyway without fully understanding it. Forgive me?

[Mithrael]

"Thieves Backstub/Deceive attack bonus can NOT affect Base Damage Maximum."

Ok, so there are 2 parts of the equation...
A.) base + b.) weapon * rate

You base doesn't change with sneak attack or trick attack, it's the same no matter what against the same monster, unless your STR changes (you eat food or food wears off mid battle, etc.) or the enemy's VIT changes (DRK absorbs VIT, or mages casts the elemental enfeeble that lowers VIT). Sneak attack, trick attack, or normal criticals, do not in any way change your base damage. It is static.

The reason he mentions it is that Sneak Attack and Trick Attack enhance your weapon in terms of the equation (assuming he's correct about that). when you engage sneak attack, the equation looks like this

Sneak Attack:
base + (weapon + dex) * (rate + 1) <~~ The +1 is because of the critical

Trick Attack:
base + (weapon + agi) * rate

Sneak Attack + Trick Attack:
base + (weapon + dex + agi) * (rate + 1) <~~ Again, the +1 is from the critical

I'm sure there is eventually a cap to how much DEX and AGI can help you, a lot of people say there is, but in reality, once you have dex+120, adding an additional DEX+1 isn't going to yield a huge change just becasue you've only changes about .5% of your weapon damage for sneak attack... So if there is a cap is really hard to say. Since a .5% increase in damage is going to be pretty impossible to see due to the random component.

Ok, so basic example:

You are a lv.50 Mithra THF/NIN, for simplicity, you're nude except for a weapon.
STR:43
DEX:65
AGI:59
Weapon: Corsair's Knife, DMG:21

Maximum Base DMG is: 24 + 3 * int(21/9) = 30

So 5 different damage equations:

Regular Hit:
43 - [enemy's VIT] + 21 * Rate

Critical Hit:
43 - [Enemy's VIT] + 21 * (Rate + 1)

Sneak Attack:
43- [Enemy's VIT] + (21 + 65) * (Rate + 1)

Trick Attack:
43 - [Enemy's VIT] + (21 + 59) * Rate

Sneak Attack and Trick Attack:
43 - [Enemy's VIT] + (21 + 65 + 59) * (Rate + 1)


Ok, so if you think about it, a really well equipped mithra thief at lv.60 has DEX~100 and AGI~90. So 100+90+21=211, and 1 is about .5% of 211. Adding 1 DEX or AGI onto a number that high makes almost no difference to your output, so you're effective capped. STR is so insiginificant in the whole thing, because at most, STR can only provide 30 points of damage. Again, when you're Sneak+Trick hits for 800DMG, 30DMG is only 5%, not a significant gain. Most likely, it's not possibly to boost strength without losing DEX, causing the whole scale to go down anyway, so STR just isn't that important to THF. Accuracy is the way to go if you have an open slot.

For instance, I was under the impression that the SATA multiplier was given to the completed damage formula.

While not technically true, practically it is. Since STR is so unimportant to a thief, you may as well leave the whole STR-VIT part off of the equation. I say it's unimportant because dagger damage is horrible and THF STR is really pretty low, even if you're elvaan. You'd have to pump your STR to about 50 above your base stat to come anywhere near the damage cap contributed by STR, and even then you're only adding 30DMG.

How does SA and TA interact? If their multipliers apply only to their respective stats with the results being added, then +AGI is useless unless you are farming.

Actually, it's more useless while you're farming since you can't use Trick Attack if there isn't anyone between you and the mob, right?

I would then use only +DEX since it helps my accuracy. Has anyone out there done tests yet to see the difference between +10 DEX vs. +10 AGI vs. +5 DEX & +5 AGI?

As long as you only use 1-hit weapon skills, they should be the same. The problem is that Sneak Attack is only effective for the first hit of a multi-hit weapon skill (Dancing Edge). Trick Attack is effective for all hits. Again, this is extraordinarily difficult to test. Since Sneak and Trick can only be used once per minute, your testing time increases about 6-fold. To truly test this, I'd guess you'd need a lv.50+ THF with really good equipment and about 10-12 hours of nothing but Sneak and Trick attacking Dhalmels in Tahrongi... I for one, am not really willing to spend this kind of time on it I'm sure someone is though. Anything else is just too easily brushed off as being a part of the random components.

Quick point, the critical remark is from the fact that TA has a lower multiplier than SA--closer to being a critical hit--and also that many who sub THF say that TA is reduced to being only a critical hit damagewise.

Trick Attack has no "Multiplier" according to this author. It has the same effect as sneak attack, without the critical. As far as subjobs go, Sneak Attack induces only a critical and DEX is not at all figured into the mix.

It is also my understanding (though my THF isn't up to lv.30 yet -.-) that Trick Attack has no additional damage effect for subjobs. It simply transfers the hate of a normal hit or normal weapon skill. So Trick Attack for a sub shouldn't really look anything like a critical hit.

[fyrewyre]

Either im missing something or i haven't read enough, but what is the difference between attack and str? i know that 1str=1dmg however when i level a weapon by 1 point my attack goes up, can anyone help with the relation between these attributes? im sure im not the only one thats begging SE to add in a expanded chart or more attributes on the equipment tab (or even make the help feature more 'help'full).

[Balodoth]

In summation

For anyone just joining the conversating, here is a recap. For more detailed information, read the thread from the beginning. It's only a few pages so far anyway.

Your damage range is essentially equivalent to this formula.

(Your STR - Mob's VIT) + { [3 + Round down (Combat Skill / 10) + Weapon's Printed Damage] * [ (Your ATK / Mob's DEF) ^ 3 + random ranging -.5 -> .5]}

The first part, your STR vs. the mob's VIT can end up as a negative. Whatever it is though, adding one STR boosts each and every attack by one damage.

The second part (the first set of [ ]) has to do with your skill with that weapon and what the damage is. The main difference is that increasing those CAN increase damage--it all depends on the last part (the second set of [ ]). Your ATK divided by the mob's defense ends up with a decimal. Whether it's more or less than one, taking it to the third power amplifies the difference. If your ATK is 125% of the mob's DEF, you will multiply the second part of the equation by 1.95 (before the random is considered). If your ATK is 85% of the mob's DEF, you'll multiply the second part of the equation by .61. Between the two examples, there is only a 40% difference in ATK, yet there is a 1.34 difference in multiplier, a 69% difference in damage you'll be dealing.

Where STR is involved, the difference is linear. More STR equals more damage. Where ATK is involved, anything to change its value has an exponential effect, good or bad. Boosting ATK, therefore, has the ability to return far more damage than boosting STR. STR increases average damage where ATK increases damage range.

As a rule of thumb, if your job attacks relatively quickly for less damage than most melee, then you would benefit more from STR as the extra damage is PER hit and can add up rather quickly. This applies to MNK and NIN also, who have higher delays but attack twice, in reality having a lower average delay per hit. If you attack more slowly, adding ATK is ideal. STR will have less hits to add up and be worthwhile. Moreover, higher delay weapons have higher printed damage values, which increase the results of the second part of the equation. Increasing ATK will ensure that the highest possible multiplier is used.

[Spider-Dan]

I didn't see this mentioned in the thread (I probably just missed it; the thread is very thorough), but ranged attack modifier is always +0.5. You will consistently hit for the same damage against the same types of TWTBW mobs.

[laicram]

Re: In summation

Originally posted by Balodoth
For anyone just joining the conversating, here is a recap. For more detailed information, read the thread from the beginning. It's only a few pages so far anyway.

Your damage range is essentially equivalent to this formula.

(Your STR - Mob's VIT) + { [3 + Round down (Combat Skill / 10) + Weapon's Printed Damage] * [ (Your ATK / Mob's DEF) ^ 3 + random ranging -.5 -> .5]}

The first part, your STR vs. the mob's VIT can end up as a negative. Whatever it is though, adding one STR boosts each and every attack by one damage.

The second part (the first set of [ ]) has to do with your skill with that weapon and what the damage is. The main difference is that increasing those CAN increase damage--it all depends on the last part (the second set of [ ]). Your ATK divided by the mob's defense ends up with a decimal. Whether it's more or less than one, taking it to the third power amplifies the difference. If your ATK is 125% of the mob's DEF, you will multiply the second part of the equation by 1.95 (before the random is considered). If your ATK is 85% of the mob's DEF, you'll multiply the second part of the equation by .61. Between the two examples, there is only a 40% difference in ATK, yet there is a 1.34 difference in multiplier, a 69% difference in damage you'll be dealing.

Where STR is involved, the difference is linear. More STR equals more damage. Where ATK is involved, anything to change its value has an exponential effect, good or bad. Boosting ATK, therefore, has the ability to return far more damage than boosting STR. STR increases average damage where ATK increases damage range.

As a rule of thumb, if your job attacks relatively quickly for less damage than most melee, then you would benefit more from STR as the extra damage is PER hit and can add up rather quickly. This applies to MNK and NIN also, who have higher delays but attack twice, in reality having a lower average delay per hit. If you attack more slowly, adding ATK is ideal. STR will have less hits to add up and be worthwhile. Moreover, higher delay weapons have higher printed damage values, which increase the results of the second part of the equation. Increasing ATK will ensure that the highest possible multiplier is used.

Hey great post. Can someone apply inverted thinking and tell me when is higher vit is better than higher defense and vice versa?


Edit: In an attempt to answer my own question, when forced to decide between vit equip and def equip...

Theory one:
Tanks with naturally high vit should go def+ to make the higest possible multiplier. Tanks with low vit should go vit+ to make the higest multiplier.

Theory two:
Exp mobs generally have a slow, high damage attack. Therefore, everyone should go def+ instead of vit+ to lower the damage range.

[Balodoth]

Tanking

Well, I haven't seen any research to show enemies use the same formula when attacking us, but it would make sense. That being the case, you can simply reread the summation and look at it from the other side of things.

When more STR means more damage per hit, then more VIT would mean less damage per hit, but only one damage per point. Likewise, more ATK means a larger range for damage. Conversely more DEF means a smaller range for damage.

As always the benefits are somewhat convoluted. If you are taking a lot of hits, then you may want VIT. If you take less hits, but more damage on each one, then you would want DEF. Since DEF is a natural part of equipment, it isn't as integral. Remember, in my summation I show an example of an ATK/DEF ratio only 40% off to show the difference is amplified by the equation to a 69% difference in damage. A single point of DEF won't have a noticeable effect on damage. But when it adds up. . . If you move all your equipment to the +1 version, you get 5 or more DEF out of the deal.

Of course, the same is true for VIT. A single point won't make a noticeable dent. You'll need parsers to accurately study its effects. Over the course of the day, you could very well save a Cure's worth of HP or more. You really just have to take into account, what you'll be fighting.

As an example, were I fighting an Orc with a dagger, I would go for VIT, as it has faster attacks and a smaller damage range. I'll take one less damage on each and every attack, which adds up quickly. Now, if I go fight an Orc with a spear, I'd prefer DEF since it has slower attacks and a larger damge range. Lowering that damage range will save me more damage than VIT since it has less time to add up.

Luckily for you, there's seldom a requirement to choose between extra DEF and VIT. And don't forget, approx 3 VIT adds one DEF.
;-)

[Lyen]

The Japanese version of the webpage has info on how he got the equations. I don't read hiragana very well, but I can read Kanji. He didn't use a damage parser. He did it with fighting very clever selection of monsters, confirming the max dmg, min dmg, and how often max dmg and min dmg occurs which is easy to eyeball.

http://www.moonlight.gr.jp/~el/ffxi/ab_calc.html

One note. The equation for rate is NOT exponential. It is, the author guesses, cubic. So a 25% increase in attack = (1.25)^3 = 100% increase (doubling) of the center rate.

What this means is a high defense monster, (center rate 0.5) after mithkabob becomes normal defense (center rate 1.0) after beserk becomes low defense (center rate 2.0). Anyone who has ever played melee and bothered checking monsters before and after beserk, food can attest to this. Before anyone jumps to the conclusion it is easy to max out attack, realize that this is a nearly 120 pt increase in attack at level 65. But it's not impossible either!

Also if you start off with center rate even lower, say 0.3, the final value is closer to 1.2. i.e. the higher your base attack is, the more benefit you get from both beserk and mithkabobs.

The conclusion is the same one any decent dmg dealing melee will tell you. You want the mob to check at "low defense" or your melee dmg is crap. The equation just tells you exactly what that means, and that once you get there your close to maxing out the benefit of +atk!

Finally I've seen the suggestion that the str and vit counter each other as far as "melee resistance". It could be that str and vit affect the distribution of that +0.5 to -0.5 value to center rate. I.e. if you have high str, you have a better chance of getting +0.5 than -0.5, but this is somewhat speculation on my part.

[zjlang]

Is it possible that the "unknown" in the rate section of the damage equation would include the weapon skill level?

[bleegh]

1 weapon skill point = 1 point of attk

[Erasmus]

A few things we can gain from this formula

Offense
- On low defense exp mobs, +attack is better.
- On high defense exp mobs, +str is better.
- Any more than 26% more attack than the enemy has defense, is pointless. Each point of attack up until this point is worth more and more.
- Damage perround added by str is multiplied by the number of attacks. This means after 51mnk, 1 str can equal 2-5 more dmg per round assuming no misses. Same applies to all jobs.
- Mnk gets more out of str than any other job

Defense
- On high attack mobs, def is more important
- On low attack mobs, vit is more important ( especially farming)
- The first points of defense are most important. Each point of defense is worth less and less. However, every point of defense has at least some small effect even if its not noticeable.
- Once you have a little more defense than the mob has attack, the value of defense falls off pretty quickly.

Bottom line

The caps for damage were made to limit players dmg on low level mobs, and limit exp mobs damage on player. This keeps the blm or rng from getting 1 shotted every time.

Due to mobs stats scaling faster than player stats, its virtually impossible to even match the opposing stat of the mob. For example, your attack will never equal the mobs defense. If it did, you would do roughly double your dmg by using a meat kabob. Also, you will never have as much defense as the mob has attack. If you did then a fish kabob would halve the damage taken.

Because of this, getting as much +att as possible does more dmg on exp mobs than str. But str does more dmg on weaker mobs.

Also, having balancing defense and vit is important. If comparing +vit to +def, having +10 vit is better than +10 def. Vit will be more important than an equal amount of defense, as long as you have a very good base def. But I have no idea where that boundary is.

Its also important when comparing stats to note that 2 vit also adds 1 def, and 2 str also adds 1 attack.



EDIT: completely changed the post

[zjlang]

saying mnk gets more out of +str than other classes is wrong. any two hit/round class, like ninja, or the ever so popular war/nin see's an equal benefit. Saying that against high def mobs, str is more important, and low defense attack is more beneficial is not really a worthwhile rule. that rule doesnt take into account the ratio of stat sacrifced vs. stat gained. For monks, commonly its +4 str (AF) and +20 attack (ochiudo's kote). You're rules need more involved considerations than just on which con attack is better than strength.

[Balodoth]

Read the previous pages

There is some truth in this most recent discusssion, but the main points are missed. Let me paraphrase yet again. Remember beforehand that both have a ceiling.

A higher attack means a larger range for damage. The wider a delta between your attack and the monster's defense, the more pronounced the difference in damage possibility. Example: If your attack equals the monster's defense, then your center is one. Even after you multiply it three times, one is still one. If you have 105% attack of the monster's defense, your center is 1.16. 5% more attack is 16% higher range. However, 110% attack of the monster's defense makes your center 1.33. An additional 5% gives the 16% of the first and 1% besides, whereas another 5% makes the center 1.52, for a 2% gain over the previous 5%.

A higher strength means a linear damage gain. In other words, adding 5 to strength adds 5 to damage, and another 5 strength has the same effect as the first 5, and so on and so forth in contrast with attack. The damage gained from strength is much less than attack, but is designed to add up over time.

The conclusion you need to draw is this: Strength has the greatest benefit for classes that attack more often for less (THF, MNK, NIN). Attack has the greatest benefit for classes that make fewer but more powerful attacks (DRK, DRG, SAM). Assuming the formula holds true for monsters attacking us, then the following conclusions are logical. Defense is the best protection from slow attacking monsters that hit hard. Vitality is the best defense against monsters that hit frequently and chip away at my health (including taking several weak monsters at once).

Just remember, attack allows a 'possible' higher damage. It comes and goes. Strength provides a steadier baseline damage. Choose what is best for you, your job and the situation.

And Lyen. . . Cube means to the power of three. Cube -IS- exponential.