federation kyahan vs Fuma kyahan

[Arkadya]

3% haste does not = 3% damage. 3% haste = one more attack than a monk not hasted every 33 combat rounds (depending on delay, that's with 431 delay which is a very typical delay). As for the math on attack, it's in another thread.

[Mikeb]

Yes, %haste is like +% damage. Say a car is going 100 kph, increase speed by 3 percent, you're going to get to your destination 3 percent quicker, or cover 3 percent more kilometres in the same period of time.

If you're hitting 3% quicker, thats 3 extra attacks every hundred attacks (assuming same weapon). Assuming everything is the same (except one has haste), over a very long period of time (so eliminate the luck factor) it's going to add up to around 3 percent damage.

[Arkadya]

No it doesn't. If weapon delay is a worthless statistic (and it pretty much is) then how does haste equate a 3% increase in damage. It's ~12 delay taken off. Would you pay 130k for the exact same weapon with 12 less delay? Is that weapon 3% better? Considering the other equipment options for your feet slot (RSE for some races, federation kyahan, even temple cyclas and I'm not a big fan of dex) all of which I'm 90% sure will yield more damage over time on average, I don't see why fuma kyahan has the price tage it has. I owned fuma, I used it a few days then switched back to federation (and have since switched to rse). The federation equalled 1-2 damage a hit, which I noticed a lot more than the 12 delay decrease.

Edit: The one thing I see everywhere, constantly, is that damage > delay. Due to how damage is calculated in this game, attacking faster will never yield more damage than hitting harder. Three attacks out of a hundred is not noticeable and it certainly won't equal any sort of meaningful damage increase. 1-2 damage on every hit you land will however.

[Mikeb]

I certainly don't notice much of a difference when I use 2 beetle earrings +1 (+6 ATK for both) I had the Federation Kyahan and it didn't seem to make a difference either. Weapon delay is not a worthless statistic - if 2 weapons are both +20 dmg, you'll take the one with the 30 delay over the 100 delay (although if the higher delay has ACC bonus thats something to consider as well). Next thing I'm gonna hear is that the WHM spell haste is worthless too

[Arkadya]

Of course I would pick the weapon with the lowest delay assuming everything else is equal. That's just common sense. But it's never come up with hth. It's all been pretty clear cut and continues to be so. I would put 1 damage roughly equivalent to about 35 delay if you wanted me to quantify my value of delay.

As for spell haste, I am not spending money on spell haste. I enjoy spell haste but it is not a deal breaker by any means. I get it all the time because the whm in my static has more mana than she knows what to do with, but if she was strapped, the last thing I want her doing is blowing 40 mana hasting me. Likewise, me having spell haste is not depriving me of precious attack, strength, or acc.

Last night we were partying in kuftal killing robber crabs. I had haste on and the bard, just for kicks, sung haste song. My delay was cut just about in half. It was fun for all of the 5 rounds it took me to notice I was doing 10 less damage a hit thanks to not having the attack song on. And I wouldn't even dream of passing up the accuracy song for some haste.

[Koy]

Haste+3% and delays from delay+30 to delay+70 or something may not be easily noticable, but it is there. You can time how long it takes you to attack with different haste and delay, or do math, but you will probably not notice it if you are just looking at it, but it is there and you do attack faster, and the faster attacks add up over time.

[Arkadya]

Yes it's there. Does it matter? No. As a strangely smart galka once said conerning brown belt and lifebelt, "I'd rather land more of my hits than miss faster." Same applies to damage, it's better to hit hard than it is to hit fast like a sissy. Also, a 3% increase in attack rate does not equal a 3% increase in damage. Swinging 3% more often is not a guarantee of damage.

All things considering, 3% haste equals roughly one extra attack every 1 and a half mobs. A good group kills 20-25 mobs an hour. So you'll see about 7-9 extra attacks in an hour. Now I don't know about you, but I've been parsing my fights lately. My hit rate is all over the map. Seems I have an acc of anywhere between 50-80%. I'd hardly call those 7-9 attacks reliable damage.

[modnar]

Just wanted to throw in my opinion/view.

Haste = more attacks. More Attacks = more chances of double hit(from WAR sub) with each fist (and a kick after that).

So 3% haste might not equal +3% damage, might be more (if double hit). Not sure, but might be worth thinking about.

And a side note: I add all the haste items and get the total haste. I think of 3% haste as a bonus to the other hastes from other sources. If all that haste equals 2+ attacks, then that might be worth it... not sure, only typing this.

[shoyo]

woo.. this is better than i expected. thanks guys

To nameless: if you want to know how i farm my money. basically is all inside the forums. There is no myth for fast money to me. It took me nearly 1month for all the equipment u see + all the gobbie bag quest n 3 mogsafe upgrade. n kote itself took me nearly weeks. (not a fast earner i suppose ) but 50/50 gobbie bag help a lots with my gil farming compare to 30/30

Back to topic:
Just like i said before i still stick with fuma in normal occasion n federation in ws. with federation equip in normal occassions i usually see around 1-3 dmg increase per hit. personally i would think 5 atk is about 1-3dmg increase(depends on mobs also)
with fuma.. it still too difficult for me to judge. i rem purple belt + fuma + haste spell give me roughly 4sec delay compare to w/o haste is like 5sec. with this if i can even get 1 more attack per mobs, i will stick to it. Since our delay will getting shorter n more attack per round we got as goes up in lv.(i wouldnt mind to hit 1more round for a chance of 5hit after lv51 >_<)
with my current lv49equipment (lifebelt instead of purple) i got roughly 5-6sec delay per interval.
seem to me that if your acc allow u to wear brown belt, haste willbe the ways to go. unless u got kung fu shoes maybe that's whole lots of different story :angel:

PS: i realise some peoples said changing equipment for ws is troublesome, which i personally doesnt agree. as long it set into my macros it wouldnt fail u everytime u press the button

This is my current macros setup for ws. open to all suggestion
/equip Feets "Federation Kyahan" <me>
/ja "Boost" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Ragging Fists" <t>
/wait 5
/equip Feets "Fuma Kyahan" <me>

[Wayne]

Just a general theory for this game. 3% haste by itself is of course nearly un-noticable. But this game is like that with everything, 3 att, 3 str 3 acc. You hardly notice small increments.

I mean basically you have to go all or nothing. All out attacker or all out nuker or all out defense.

So while haste boots by themselves wouldn't do much, someone who got all the +haste they could get would notice a significant change in attack speed.

Just as someone who focus' all their efforts into +att and +acc.

Just one mans take on a mmorpg.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by shoyo
woo.. this is better than i expected. thanks guys

To nameless: if you want to know how i farm my money. basically is all inside the forums. There is no myth for fast money to me. It took me nearly 1month for all the equipment u see + all the gobbie bag quest n 3 mogsafe upgrade. n kote itself took me nearly weeks. (not a fast earner i suppose ) but 50/50 gobbie bag help a lots with my gil farming compare to 30/30

k thanks

[Arkadya]

Originally posted by Wayne
Just a general theory for this game. 3% haste by itself is of course nearly un-noticable. But this game is like that with everything, 3 att, 3 str 3 acc. You hardly notice small increments.

I mean basically you have to go all or nothing. All out attacker or all out nuker or all out defense.

So while haste boots by themselves wouldn't do much, someone who got all the +haste they could get would notice a significant change in attack speed.

Just as someone who focus' all their efforts into +att and +acc.

Just one mans take on a mmorpg.

This I'll agree with, if you can get to 20% or more haste then by all means do so, it will make quite a difference. But fuma on it's own, and even fuma with brown belt, is nothing to write home about.

[Mikeb]

Originally posted by Arkadya


This I'll agree with, if you can get to 20% or more haste then by all means do so, it will make quite a difference. But fuma on it's own, and even fuma with brown belt, is nothing to write home about.

Neither is +4 attack...

[Arkadya]

Originally posted by Mikeb


Neither is +4 attack...

It is actually, assuming that you have ochiudo's kote and beetle earrings+1 like any good monk will have around the level you can start wearing haste gear.

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

K, here's the deal-- if you're really serious about this, then you absolutely must do some research on the effect of +% haste, otherwise it's all for naught.

I recall vividly reading that +% haste is only figured into weapon delay... that being said, it's total crap for MNK, who's weapon delay is a mere fraction of their total delay. Where I heard that from exactly, I don't recall, but it's set in my mind as fact, and as skeptical as I am I doubt that I would accept it as fact if I were not thoroughly convinced of its truthfulness. That said, I'm also skeptical enough to doubt my own brain...

I'm 99% sure that that thread/post is located on these forums, so I suggest you do a search on haste. Even IF it factors into total delay, I think I would go the +att route if I saw no noticeable difference in the speed of attacks (which of course you won't). It looks shiny and all but it doesn't add to my hard numbers (nor will it increase WS/Chi damage). Let me know if you find anything out about haste.