Relic Armor is doody O_o?

[IpwnzuLoL!!!111]

Alright, so this has been brought up in a little while, and I just wanted to hear some thoughts on it. I looked up the stats for the MNK relic armor on Mystertour, and they add up like this:

(Defensive Stuff)
HP+23%
VIT+5
AGI+4
Guard+15
Regen Healing+6
Chakra+
Counterstance+
(not counting DEF bonuses)


(Offensive Stuff)
STR+5
DEX+4
ATT+16
Kick Attacks +5
Subtle Blow+ 15
Enmity-3
(Well, the last two are really more defensive, but at least they're useful although you're not tanking)

And all I can say is "WTF".

It looks like a crappy piece of tank armor or something. The offensive abilities are terrible... No enhancements for Boost, Focus, or Chi Blast? The STR and DEX are laughable, and the ATT on the gloves isn't even as good as the Ochiudo's. The body and feet are a total joke (but then they're not fantastic on AF either). I would consider wearing the other pieces solely for the Subtle Blow effect during certain fights, but everything else... I mean, who can't do better than that by lvl 70?

Alright, I'm done.

[IpwnzuLoL!!!111]

http://mysterytour.web.infoseek.co.j.../us/index.html

And there's the site in case anyone still hasn't seen it.

[Redlimit]

Most MNK in the position to obtain any of their Artifact 2 Set usually take a few pieces (+Subtle Blow, etc) and stick with the Raeatsu set for the rest.

The Cursed set for MNK is the real thing you want. The entire Bamboo Set (Shura Set) has absolutely obscene stats and very high +Attack and +Accuracy.

The main problem is, even on Ragnarok I don't think anyone even has any of the Bamboo/Shura set. Only one Cursed Gi has been put up at the Jeuno AH (and no one bought it), and none of the other gear has made an appearance.

The Mithra Ballista Commander for Windrurst is wearing the Bamboo/Shura set - too bad you can't examine NPCs...

One of the best things about MNK is that their first AF set is so strong that you can keep using it for a very long time. Most of the pieces also have effects that you would want for temporary boosts as well, like equipping Temple Cyclas for a few seconds to use the upgraded Chakra effect.

[Mikeb]

The Artifact 2 set looks like it would be nice for soloing/ballista/HNM fights etc...(stuff where you're not in an EXP party). If you want strait up +Attack +Str stuff then cursed armour prolly better...

[Dano]

imo, melees other than Drk, pld, nin HAS no place in HNM fights, and i mean HNM fights like Fafnir.

then again, the AF2 aint that promising i would take the leg piece for +5 kick attack thou, But i would also just go on a hunt for the Cactus HNM that droped the dunes boots that adds +30 on kick attacks, so yea.. AF2 looks crappy

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

Originally posted by Dano
imo, melees other than Drk, pld, nin HAS no place in HNM fights, and i mean HNM fights like Fafnir.

And why not MNK, or WAR, may I ask?

[Dano]

as you know mnk swings very frequently this tends to give alot of tp to the NM, even with the new subtle blow trait it's still the same, a mnk hitting for crap dmg and giving tp to the monster or a blm nuking for good dmg and giving minimum tp to the monster, which would you choose ? same case as for wars, i will also choose a mage spaming dia frost gravity over a war spamming breaks, in HNM fights melee are kept to the minimum. Last night some shellmates of mine got invited to a fafnir hunt (sadly, i didnt had the chance to go coz i'm a mnk!), they got ass rape by frail spike, 1200 AE, it's a 1 shoot.

[Redlimit]

BTW - Boosted Chi Blasts are your friend with +MND gear for HNM. You can easily crest 700 damage, and sometimes do over 1000 with a lot of +MND gear.

Thats available once every 3 minutes, so thats not too bad considering how long the battles last. On the off chance you do have TP, Dragon Kick still does good damage even to HNM.

[Altruist]

Monk has chi blast, and all other melee have 1h swords for spirits, spirits is based upon total hp. Spirits doesn't miss, attack doesn't help spirits, any body who can equip a 1h sword, can get 300tp, and has hp does equally as well for non-tp hnm. Now if a galka monk could equip 1h swords, orz.

[Mikeb]

With full relic gear, Black belt and the new subtle blow trait, I imagine you won't be giving much (if any) TP to the mob...

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

And a lot of people hit on some of my thoughts...

A MNK isn't going to be wailing away for nothing on a HNM. He's either going to Chi Blast/ SNK+Dragon Kick. A WAR wouldn't be another worthless melee... how is a WAR outfitted to tank so much different from a PLD? They'd just soak up damage until they could use Spirits Within... and considering that they're either going to sub MNK or NIN and get Subtle Blow, it's really no more of an issue than any other tank giving the mob TP.

Also, that +Subtle Blow may be just that good on HNM. +15 on the Relic, and there's even more on some other pieces, so much that I have to wonder if you can be giving 0/1 TP per hit to a mob if you're fully decked out.

Anyway, a MNK beating on something with that high def is pointless, and of course a BLM is preferable, but if you're on a server where you need every warm body just to make a full alliance (you might not be), I'd be inclined to think that you'd at least have a chance to show them what you can do. Guess that doesn't soften the blow much, but :\ I think just about every job has a reasonable amount of usefulness in HNM (not sure about SAM though :\)

[Manatra]

Originally posted by Dano
as you know mnk swings very frequently this tends to give alot of tp to the NM, even with the new subtle blow trait it's still the same, a mnk hitting for crap dmg and giving tp to the monster or a blm nuking for good dmg and giving minimum tp to the monster, which would you choose ? same case as for wars, i will also choose a mage spaming dia frost gravity over a war spamming breaks, in HNM fights melee are kept to the minimum. Last night some shellmates of mine got invited to a fafnir hunt (sadly, i didnt had the chance to go coz i'm a mnk!), they got ass rape by frail spike, 1200 AE, it's a 1 shoot.

It's called don't hit Fafnir in the tail.

[Voyager]

The Monk type mobs also have Subtle blow now, and I can tell you, they give you next to no TP when they hit. I've routinely been given 1% TP even when both hits from a Yagodo Monk type hit me.

It is a major decrease.

Harry Voyager

[shinjaku]

Relic armor is doody O_o

Full relic with blk belt hmm can I hear +20 subtle blow and like +23%hp we monsters yes.
Nuff said.

[Rossb2k]

I have 3 pieces of both shura (body,legs,head) and AF2 (feet,legs,hands) and I can tell you for the most part AF2 isn't that great. They have their uses, but they aren't something that is going to increase the things you can do by any great amount. I've melee'd fafnir just a few days ago because we had no other melee that could do skillchains, and I can tell you monk performs really well. I used shura body and head, af2 gloves, fuma, 2 snipers, and byakko hiadate. I ate sole sushi and my accuracy rate with this gear was extremely good, with Focus i'd hit at least once almost every turn and didn't have trouble keeping up with rangers for TP. My damage was around 15-30 without berserk and 40-60 with, per fist.

I don't think my damage exceeded what I could do with chi blast but I certainly didn't have a hard time skillchaining, and it was fun to try something new while still being useful. As for Subtle Blow, I had +9, and Fafnir didn't seem any more spammy than usual. I don't consider that an issue. However if I stacked all Subtle Blow I'm sure my accuracy rates and damage output would go down signifigantly. Since Fafnir has auto-meditate and I had a decent amount of Subtle Blow anyway, I thought it was a nice balance of accuracy, damage, and +subtle blow.

Spike Flail isn't an issue either. Don't move around or attack his ass and it won't happen.

As for the original question, AF2 is decent at best. Melee gloves are the one piece I would definitly seek because they are arguably the best hand piece for monks. -4 attack than Ochiudo's, yes, but you get +subtle blow, +hp, and chakra enhance, without the -evasion of Ochiudo's. The other pieces are just toys that are nice to play around with, IMO.