Ouchido's Kote VS Temple Gloves

[Redlimit]

Please note this is not a contest of money, as Temple Gloves are "free" and Kote are not. I have had a pair of Ouchido's Kote since mid 40's.

Ok so I hit 54 today and decided to do some testing between AF and Kote. On average, with the AF gloves equipped, I would do more damage. Here are some tests I ran (equipped with Tactician Magician Hooks and not using Meat Mithkabobs):

-Rolanberry Hornets-
Average Damage AF: 92
Average Damage Kote: 85

-Saromugue Tabar Beaks-
Average Damage AF: 82
Average Damage Kote: 75

Not to mention the additional power to Boost from AF makes your WS's hit a little bit harder (although its hard to practially judge this carefully).

Note that I realize that with a higher constant attack from Kote my accuracy will be slightly better, but if each hit landing does more damage, then your overall damage output is higher (this is similar to the "higher damage or lower delay" thing with MNK h2h weapons - you allways want the higher damage).

So.....I'm confused. The AF seem to be at least on par (if not better) than the Kote.....
I was wondering if any other MNK have ever bothered to check and see what their damage was like with AF and Kote?

Maybe the +4 STR is a big thing for h2h....does STR play a large role in h2h damage? Moreso than Attack?

:confused:

[DJplaeskool]

run the numbers while fighting tote or tougher enemies...you should see the difference...

I noticed an average increase of over 10 damage per hit after I got my kote while fighting Spartois in Ranperre's tomb...

[breal777]

My AF gloves have been in MH ever since I got Kotes, you notice the huge boost in your attack when you use them.

[Lone Dragon]

I'll be damned if I'm paying for that thing and since getting a drop is pretty much impossible, screw it.

[sourjirou]

heres a post on the subject of str and attack. should clear stuff up.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=32467

[Zane]

I just bought Kote today, was always satisfied with AF but just felt spendy today.

I made a change to boost macro and plan on giving it a shot,

/equip hands "Temple Gloves"
/ja "Boost" <me>
/wait 1
/equip hands "Ochiudo's Kote"
/wait 13
/echo - Boost Ready -

The char. model blink out is kinda of annoying, the boost animation is skipped but you get the boost effect with AF enhancment and the equipment swap is done properly.

It seems to work ok so far, i formerly used a 2 boost macro so will be some more button pressing but should maximize efficiency.


edit- ok this macro sucks. its too clunky and unlocks the target from the equipment change. i went back to my normal boost macro. i just pretty much leave kote on while im experimenting with it.

[sourjirou]

ochiudo kotes isnt better than temple gloves at all. the attack boost from the kotes is mainly meant for weapon skills and maximum potential. the str boost increases the min amount of dmg.when u r fightin IT mobs u will hit the majority of the time ur minimum dmg only when u use a weapon skill does the maximum potential dmg matter.i use the temple gloves through out most of the fight then when i have 100% TP switch to the ochiudo kotes, then boost+beserk+focus and do the weapon skill for max damage, then i switch back to the temple gloves

[breal777]

Originally posted by sourjirou
ochiudo kotes isnt better than temple gloves at all. the attack boost from the kotes is mainly meant for weapon skills and maximum potential. the str boost increases the min amount of dmg.when u r fightin IT mobs u will hit the majority of the time ur minimum dmg only when u use a weapon skill does the maximum potential dmg matter.i use the temple gloves through out most of the fight then when i have 100% TP switch to the ochiudo kotes, then boost+beserk+focus and do the weapon skill for max damage, then i switch back to the temple gloves

That is your opinion, I have noticed that I attack for quite a bit more with Kotes opposed to AF, I have switched around before and the damage from my AF just makes me want to cry as compared to when I have on my Kotes, hitting for 5-20 damage less with AF on.

[Redlimit]

I was finding the exact opposite last night. Against Robber Crabs in Boyhada, I was consistently doing 5 to 10 more damage with Temple Gloves. I fought with AF on for about an hour, and Kote for an hour.

[Lone Dragon]

Attack simply raises your potential damage.
Since crabs are strong against H2H, your potential is much lower.
It's better to raise your base damage in cases like that, so Str would be better.
I would assume that since H2H is the most powerful against bones, added attack would result in higher damage since your potential is much higher.

This would be a valid argument if the kotes were relatively easy to get.
Since they are not, it's kind of pointless to say which one is better in most situations since most people will have the temple gloves for a while.

I'm sure as hell not gunna buy those things,
and those JPs have the thing camped 24/7,
and though the pop rate of the monster is better than most,
the drop rate is asinine, my friend spent 16 hours just trying to get the Fuma Kyahan (22 if you count the time we tried to get it together). ;[

So pardon me, but this is a stupid argument.

I'll be fine with a pair of Spike Earrings, Sun Rings, and that Brown Belt I want so badly (I gotta pimp out Str for those damn crabs anyway ~_~; )

[Ungerpurr]

The way damage is calculated is that strength is a subtractive comparison (attacker's STR - defender's VIT), whereas ATK is a divisive comparison (attacker's ATK / defender's DEF).

When fighting something with low-ish defense (virtually everything except beetles, crabs, ghosts, pugils, etc.), the +20 ATK from the kote may be a significant fraction of the mob's defensive value. When fighting higher defense monsters, the strength may give a larger effect.

For example:

Suppose a particular mob has 100 DEF and you have 200 ATK, and your average hit is 60, equipping kote essentially adds 10% damage, meaning you hit for 6 more damage per hit on average.

Now suppose a particular mob has 200 DEF and you have 200 ATK, so now your average hit is 30, equipping kote still adds 10% damage, meaning you hit for *3* more damage per hit on average.

In either case, the +4 str from the AF gloves means you hit for 4 more damage on average. It's a linear progression (str) vs. a logarithmic one (atk). Paladins run into a related issue with their gear, namely at DEF vs. VIT. Versus a mob with sufficiently high ATK value, adding 20 defense may not be as effective as adding 4-6 VIT.

Also, there is a hard-coded max hit given your current strength and weapon damage. For instance, I can go smack tiny mandragoras for 80-90 damage per hit in sarutabaruta, but when I crit, I only hit for 108 (every time). I can then go to shakrami maze, and hit for 50-70 damage per hit, and still crit for 108 (almost every time). For the original poster, if you included crits in your parse, I'm not sure if there's a multiplicative modifier on your str for crits, meaning that the difference between crits is what offset your average damage by more than the +4 str on the temple gloves.

Increasing your attack value doesn't increase your max damage, it only increases your average damage. An easy way to test this would be to grab a weapon that isn't capped (for example, grab a staff, and level it up to 40 skill or so...enough that you cap your crits on level 1 mobs, but not your regular hits). Then, cap the weapon skill (or at least get it significantly higher, like to the 60s or so), and go beat on the same level 1 mobs. Your average damage per hit will increase, but your crits should stay the same.

[ffguy]

This is kinda off topic, but where is the monster that drops the Kote? Sorry for that lol :sweat:

[Lone Dragon]

Mee Deggi the Punisher, Castle Oztroja.
Take the northern tunnel from the big room, he spawns on the island.
Since he has a near exact 2 hour timer (spawns about 2 ours after the last kill),
after a spawn most of them run over to Quu Domi the Gallant (same timer),
who is through the southern tunnel from the big room on a similar island.

So if you go to one of the rooms and no ones in the area,
you probably missed the boat by a few minutes and you should probably go to the other room.

[Ipwnzuall!!!111]

And, to answer the question more briefly:

It depends on the mob.