Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

[Effen]

You have wrote an entire piece of post without even giving me one point how a sam is better, or in your word, how you can "use" it better than a war sub? You are currently LV55, how does a sam sub play you "playing style"? What is your playing style? To try to do less damage? Let's take the 2 skills that you will most likely say it's useful, TP gain... With double attack, you gain same more TP with a War sub than TP gain. Try it yourself, I know I have. And it's fact, unlike theories that you seem to like talking about. The other ability is 3rd Eye... so you don't get hit once, big deal, the bonus defense on the war sub will help you take less damage when you get more than 1 hit which is more often. Now you are missing, double attack (which not only gives you extra TP, but extra damage), berserk, one of the best offensive abilities for any melee. Now unless your goal is to lower your damage output, you don't have any arguements to support how a sam sub is better, even for you. This is not streetfighter... but let's just put it in that terms, we will compare it to a normal Ryu, with a Ryu who cannot fire ball and upper cut and deals 30% less damage. Now, which one would you pick?

Let's talk balista now. When you actually played in a no cap balista against a Mnk/nin with a kraken club, you will then understand the power of it, but you have long ways to go young monk.

[bonovoxpsu]

oh this thread is rich. thank you shinjaku... tagging it for future reference.

mnk/war > mnk/sam. done, nuff said. especially pre 60.

i would say to the monks to let this thread go. everyone knows that mnk/war is THE monk combo. no need to feed the flames, lets just move on.

however... everyone knows the REAL ultimate monk combo is mnk/smn... but don't tell anyone that.

[Weap]

Learning how to type should be your number one priority right now instead of making useless arguements. Have you even tried warrior sub?

[shinjaku]

Pay attention


Thnxs for the feedback guys, jay read the entire posts i put up before u make snap judgements, i never said mnk/sam was better than mnk/war, i just said mnk/war is over-rated thats all n i have not lost to 1 yet in ballista so pay attention. I also said alot of mnk/wars on my server dont know how to play, now u telling me what i can n cant do is pure garbage; I already know what i am capable of. Strategy is all it comes down to period so lets stop there k :spin:
As far as the 1 making comments bout spellings, i did not know u need special attention when it comes to reading if u want me to eloquently stoop to ur lvl forget it.
Effen i'm not trying to to prove to u my sam sj, just saying it can still work n that war is not the only way
As far as my lmnk lvl goes i did not know that whenever u log in it changes (hmm must have missed that somewhere).
Bottom line is that having 2 people with the same duds on and same class, still wont play the same so that adds the factor of probability (the results wont be the same). Now if u dont understand that u need help period.
Like always its been a pleasure effen Till next time peaceout

[JayblahX]

What did I say?

The kid doesn't even listen.

He's so full of himself, that no matter what it is you say, he'll brush it aside, spew aside nonsensical drivel like "strategy" and "probability" which really have zero value in this debate and think he's won.

Stop wasting your time. This guy is the reason the phrase "Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" was created.

Closing statements like;

Like always its been a pleasure effen Till next time peaceout

Are ample clues that he's simply baiting and does not care at all about what you reply with.

This is the last from me on this thread. I suggest you save your efforts.

[Halato]

Ballista is so unballanced that it's barely worth discussing subs for. I mean... Bard is very destructive player in ballista, yet they have trouble soloing Too Weak mobs in the game.

When I think of ballista, that last thing I think about is using it to judge any job combo's true strength. Ballista is pure fluff and highly exploitable. basically, it comes down to who gets the drop on the other player.

[Effen]

Effen i'm not trying to to prove to u my sam sj, just saying it can still work n that war is not the only way

How does it work? You remind me of this Walter kid on the allakhazam forum who believed that Mnk/Pld was a good combo, yet everytime I ask him a question as to how it is good, he would go on and say how it's good when you solo, how you can do well against bones and doing quest. Yet not once did he actually answered the questions I put up for him.

I assumed your level on ur sig was updated, if it's not, then why don't you share with us what level it is. Let's for arguement sake, say that you are LV60+ and you have meditate, now can you please tell me what mobs you are fighting and how you are using that extra 60% TP with meditate and when you use it?

You are right, Monk/war or Monk/thf isn't the only way, you can sub Monk/brd, Monk/bst... or whatever you want. That doesn't really say much. In fact, I believe Mnk/brd might even be more effective than a Monk/sam in a PT situation where a bard is not in the PT.

So instead of dodging these questions, why don't you explain to us how a sam sub suits your playing style and why is it good?



Jay, I know I'm wasting my time, but time is all I have heh.

[Spicy]

Nobody even will consider a MNK/DRK, eh? I think this would be a better option than MNK/THF or /drg. post 60 only, but if you tag'd a souleater to your raging fists/asuran fists, i would think that would be pretty sexy. Not to mention the couple passive attack bonus's. You're str is the same a /war, and you have better VIT. you're trading double swing and berzerk for souleater and last resort. I'm not saying war isn't the best sub for mnk, but drk is better than drg, or sam i would think. Thats my 4 cents worth.

[Effen]

If soul eater and last resort last 3mins, then yes, Drk could possibly be the best sub for a monk.

[shinjaku]

Pay attention

Jayblahx u either dont know how to interpret words or sentences,, its very sad.
Since ur either too lazy to scroll up the threads or dont know how to; but spew out garbage. Before u say more garbage please read my 1st post. Better yet this time dont reply its amazing how everytime u write stuff down u prove how much u really know so just butt out. If any 1 is wondering, tell us y u got warning lv8. Oh no pls dont say anything spare us. Me recognizing effen is sign of respect for his opinion, I'm not telling him he is wrong so if u really dont know how to read go back n learn all pun intended.
I said alot of peeps mnk/wars dont know how to play specially on my server, n also i have not lost to 1 yet in ballista (I'm 3 for 3 battles). So next time u want to voice ur opinion say something productive like prove it or something till then just zip it.
My beef was with the mentality of other mnk/wars thinking they are automatically better n will win against a mnk/sam in ballista. its been my experience that i have shattered those egos thats all. Like i said till i meet a mnk/war kick my butt there in ballista, they have to still prove to me they know how to play that combo.
Now effen all 3 times in ballista i was depending on spam ws like crazy (as many times as possible against my opponent) all 3 times i went 1st by the time they were rdy to do theirs i was rdy to go again, they did not use meat or milk (think they been feed to much bs that they have this mentality they dont need it) I will be the 1st to say 3rd eye should be an active ability for atleat a min. It did come in handy, plus my tp growth was jus fine. I prefer sam tp for damage splatter n believe it better than war n double attack potential-thats my opinion. So i see no reason going down the theoritacal aspects of this but of what i have seen done. I hope this is enough, i do know that from ur responses u too would have been upset with their game play.

[Effen]

Why does it always go back to ballista? This game is not about PvP, and I'm sure most people would prefer a sub that would give them the advantage in a normal exp PT than ballista. No one is going to invite you to a HNMLS due to your ability in PvP. As I have said before, go to a no cap Ballista, and find a Mnk/Nin with a kraken club. Then come back and tell me how your TP is so good against utsusemi.

Now stick with the original topic which you always try to avoid. How does extra TP make you deal more damage? Since you refuse to tell me what level you are, I'll assume you are LV60+ just for arguement sick. Tell me where do you use your extra Tp...

Puller pulls a Toroma
Wait for tank to have enough hate (2nd provoke is the norm)
Wait for other jobs to get TP (usually the mob is close to half dead)
Start skill chain
MB
Mob is either dead or very close to dead

So can you please tell me, where are you going to use that meditate? Where are you going to use that extra TP?


You always bring up the point that there are a lot of Mnk/war who aren't really good on your server. But that doesn't really say anything. That doesn't prove that Mnk/war isn't good. I have seen a lot of Pld/war who aren't good, but that doesn't mean that combo isn't the best. It means absolutely nothing, it simply proves that the player behind the computer doesn't have any skill.

[shinjaku]

checkout my original post

I am lv60, yes i keep going back to ballista cause thats where i said i kick mnk/war's butt. I said they sucked n cant play thats all n that alot of them think thats the only way n best way to go, plus they dont use food period. I keep going there cause thats where i said my probs with war sj starts; thats all, plus alot of them on my server cant play. I dont wait around for tanks to get hate for nothing, tp goes to 300 then spam shoulder tackle, meditate n join sc, n finish off solo with another ws n if mobs still alive join to complete another sc. In my pt it comes out jus fine.
For me as secondary damage dealer, spamming ws n joining sc is what i like n live for; its nice to know i do my part in a pt.
Like i said before on my server alot cant play right, whats the prob with that! That 2nd tp upgrade for sam makes it more interesting n seeing the mob get pissed for u spamming it is nice to do n knowing that i can easily take hate when main tank needs some serious TLC (cure3 n so forth). I never said sam lack of abilities was better than war sj version so why are u you guys going crazy when others put holes in ur war is best n only way to go mantra! My mnk/sam may not be as strong as ur mnk/war but it sure is more interesting to play, thats all n if u think thats not what i said go back to my 1st post; its not so hard to do :spin: To the 1 who asked if i ever heard of war sj sure did not read before spamming his nonsense too. Now if u gonna wait n cant figure out a game plan(what to do with that 60tp ur on ur own cant help u) it works for me n the 3 other top mnk/sams on my server just fine.

[Effen]

Everything is clarified now. Your style is to steal hate and spam ws. Definitely, sam sub will fit you. But here's a suggestion, for your next job, try a blm, rng or drk. They can grab hate even easier.

I have a PLD, and I know how much I hate when people who don't know how to play a co-op game spams ws like they have never seen one. Hence mostly, I PT with JPN also due to my level. Most JPN is very cautious about hate control, and the reason I'm sure you would know is that it's not efficient for a non tank to steal hate from the main tank. WHM wastes mp to cure you, the PLD wastes more mp to steal hate back. And both of these will create more down time. It's all about working as a team, and if you are spamming ws, then you are not playing efficiently. But if that's the style you choose to be, then that's fine by me. Just glad you are not on my server heh.

[shinjaku]

I agree with u

Yes u r right on that but i mostly spam solo when main tank is in trouble only, but mostly try to stay within sc. I too play with jpn parties too when ever possible; i do not put mages at risk of wasting mp on me that much. Plus i also use milk (3rd eye n dodge together) when i do steal hate, but tanks have been able to steal it back sometimes; while most times not necessary cause mob dies soon after. I try to do my part, n make things interesting n stuff

[Hereaux]

Re: Really

mnk/war for damage eh, really till u can take damage like a pld/war/drg thn talk. till then get a clue.

Eh... drg cannot take dmg... what kinda crack are you on?