Monk Tanking guide to Lvl 30

[Brocino]

y0, i took your advice to lvl solo in yhutunga and i have to say that i'm enjoyin it alot! thanks! My guard isnt raising very quickly though. I counter more often than i guard. i only fight mandradoras, which are decent challenges. Any suggestions? i dont use evade.

[laicram]

Hi Broncino,

Yea, I know soloing is slow, with resting and all. Tanking in a PT is the fastest, and least aggravting way to train guard.

Are you Mnk35? It's not too late to get Padded armor. Its very cheap - even the +1 versions. Def is equal to Centurion Amror. Buy that and Fish Kabobs and you can tank at Garliage and the Nest. The beetles and bats don't attack as fast as mandras, but the guard training will be will less tedious in a PT setting.

From my experience in Garliage so far, I'd suggest spamming dodge there because it helps keep the hate, and the mobs are gonna hit you regardless. My one gripe with tanking in Garliage is the constant mob trains.
Large downtime = Wasted food =(

Random Mnk tanking tip: If you're looking to tank, try to avoid having Paladins in your PT. Even if you beat their def, your tanking makes the Pal deadweight in the PT.

[Brocino]

heh, thanks again. i just got 35 last night in garlaige where i kept having to tank because i was a Theif's beotch for their SA/TA combo ( i hate that -_-... lol). Anyway, just got chakra so i can solo better now i guess! Anyway, u said dodge gets you hate, right? does it actually draw aggro? or just because they cant hit you? or did i just misinterpret... lol

[DJplaeskool]

Originally posted by Brocino
heh, thanks again. i just got 35 last night in garlaige where i kept having to tank because i was a Theif's beotch for their SA/TA combo ( i hate that -_-... lol). Anyway, just got chakra so i can solo better now i guess! Anyway, u said dodge gets you hate, right? does it actually draw aggro? or just because they cant hit you? or did i just misinterpret... lol

Use of job abilities whilst engaged with an enemy will draw some degree of enmity, depending on the ability and its scope. Monk's Evasion, for example, won't draw as much as Warrior's War Cry for the reason of scope. While evasion only affects you, War cry affects all PT members in range. This is why sometimes you see PLDs spamming abilities. Not only to boost whatever it is they need, but also to get that bit of enmity tacked on.

During my time PTing in Ranp's Tomb, the hate from the skeletons would teeter between me and our PLD (or NIN or WAR/NIN), so prior to my section of renkei, so our THF could get fuidama off properly, I'd use Evasion, Concentration, Beserk, and War Cry in succession, that would usually push the balance to me so I could punk him in the face with WS and allow the THF to do their thing.

[Brocino]

o, ok, i getcha, thanks. I usually got the aggro about halfway thru the fight when the theif would use their TA/SA and i could hold it for awhile since i did better damage than our war (cant explain that, maybe im 1337 :D)

[Oni]

just wanted to let you guys know.. i was a main tank for this garliage pt (set pt anways) hunting funnel bats / beetles with +vit equipment, fishkabob, protect, and defender and i was able to raise my guard skill to cap limit.

[Desmar]

Originally posted by Brocino
o, ok, i getcha, thanks. I usually got the aggro about halfway thru the fight when the theif would use their TA/SA and i could hold it for awhile since i did better damage than our war (cant explain that, maybe im 1337 :D)

Monks are capable of quite a bit of damage... Even as a Mnk/Thf in yhoator I outdamged a DRK, Dragoon & a Samurai because of high hit rate and +17 to str...

[laicram]

Wow Oni, that is remarkable. I don't have a set PT, so I wasn't always able to tank along the way.

(I'd be in a PT with a no-food-eating Pal, and I could either use Meat Kabobs and speed up the lvling, or switch gear, pop a Fish Kabob and beat the Pal's defense - making the Pal somewhat useless)

Are you Mnk50/War25, deep in Garlaige? I noticed you had defender in your post.

This may sound off the topic, but it's not...
I'm lvling my Thf33 (my 100% non-tanking job), and I'm feeling the tank shortage. Not only that, but I look at the tanks I end up PTing with, and they are PITIFULLY equipped, compared to my Mnk/War when I tanked at these lvls.

I'm just reiterating to everyone, that if you have your money-making methods sorted out, you can have a decked-out, well-fed monk that is a respectable tank (now tested up to Mnk38/War19). Whether by choice, or neccessity.

[Brocino]

aye, after lvl 30, its a bit tuff to find any great tanks, let alone one clad in good defensive armor. just gotta make up for it with multiple vokers to distrubute the damage better.

[Lan'Urk]

Hi, Im a PLD and i thought i would contribute a little with my hate controling knowledge to all MNK tanks out there.

I personally dont know much about MNK tanking at higher lvls, but one thing im sure about... they can hold aggro just fine... by means of damage dealt. MNK tanks are much like WAR tanks... they rely on damage to hold aggro. the only problem i see with MNK tank is the reasonably lower defense. even with proper gear, they would still lack a lot of defense and will definatly leech a lot of mp from mages. i would say that a MNK tanking after lvl 30 is more like a last resort, since PLD NIN and WAR can easelly outtank them... even though a MNK would hold aggro much easier than some tank classes they would fall apart just as easy.
BUT MNKs are perfect secondary tanks for that good old Fuidama. because they can pull of the aggro from the PLD so the THF or DRK can do his thing behind the PLD.

lastly i would like to address the "Random Provoke" Issue. a lot of ppl dont know exacly how hate works. its not a ball that switches around... when you randomly provoke you are not taking hate away from the PLD... you are only adding to your own hate calculation, which depending on what you have been doing during battle might me higher than hte PLD's hence the mob will face you... but a good PLD should be able to get it back by healing you or simply hitting the mob. I often encourage the SAM in my PT to do these "Random Provokes" just as a security measure... if im about to die and mages are OoMP, if he has some hate built up, he can pull off me with a provoke, and most likely save my life. of course this requires a well trained PLD and Secondary tank, but being a MNK you should keep that in mind, cuz you might need to pull the hate off a PLD some day...Random provokes could get a DD killed but also might get a PLD saved, so know how much hate you are getting, and know how to be just bearly under you PLD so you can aid him if he needs it ^_-

~Lanurk

[laicram]

I'm sorry Lan'Urk, but I have to disagree with you on many points. Not speaking on hi-lvl tanking, I've tanked and observed to Mnk37.

First thing to refute, is that a Mnk with proper def gear + food is NOT a MP leech. Throughout my Mnk-tank run, my def + food was consistently 40+ points over any War or Pal tank that did not eat.

I'd say 97% on the tanks from Lvl37 and below don't eat def food - and often w/o the best possible def gear (gimped!). Because of my planning, optimum gear + food, I was always the best tank (best def) in my PT - tho most could not comprehend it.

The 2nd thing to refute, is that Mnk tanks do good damage. This is incorrect. Equipping def+ gear totally gimps their attack. Also, the main lack of offense comes from eating Fish Kabobs instead of Meat Kabobs.

The small, yet consistant hate-keeping damage comes from Focus (better accuracy than any tank this lvl range), Boost, and Voke.

I realize that you are ENTIRELY CORRECT if we were talking about a standard damage-dealing monk, with att+ and acc+ gear. I wouldn't call them "good main tanks", either. You are right, because 99% of Mnks are built this way...

That's the purpose of this guide - to show MNKs how to be good tanks if they want it. After Lvl30 there's still room to tank. Tanks get scarce due to the advanced job frenzy.

Built like a tank + def food, I was still beating def of standard, non-eating tanks til I stopped at 37. All it takes is exellence and planning.

[Lan'Urk]

I agree with a lot of points you bring up, and I DID tank while I brought my MNK to 30. But from my experience in this game I have found that in order to bring the maximum potetial out of your job you should focus on the job's strenghts. MNKs unfortunatly do not get DEF gear above lvl 40, (and even below 40 their gear have a lower DEF than the WAR/PLD equivalent)and by trying to get VIT+or DEF+ gear you will be missing out on a lot of STR+ gear and ACC+ gear. Yes I do agree MNKs can probably tank up to lvl 40, but after that (when they should get jujitsu gi) is when they should step down for a bit, and focus on doing what MNKs can do better which is deal massive damage. Mobs lvl 50+ get a MASSIVE evasion boost... so ALL damage dealers NEED ACC+ gear its a must for when you are lvling in the basement area of Garliage for example. Im not saying by any means that this guide is wrong or that MNKs should never tank... im just saying keep in mind that MNK was not made to be a tank in certain lvls... specially from 40 to around 70 or so (when the get the counter+ gear). Just have this in mind thats all.

I know you will say that my thoughts dont apply to this section, but I just brought this up to make sure people know that MNKs can tank, but in certain lvls... not through their whole carreers. and I personally know a MNK who tanked from 70-75, but he spent milllions on equipment, and I bet he did tank quite efficiently. and i asked him if he had been tanking since lvl 1... and he said "No way, from lvl 30-70 I was subing THF... for sneak attack and eventually Trick attack"

So yes my conclusion, MNKs up to lvl 40 probably do tank as well as WARs, But at 40 please consider being a full time damage dealer... and like you said, MNK tanks dont do good damage, if that stands at later lvls, you will not hold aggro efficiently... because you dont have the hit prevention a NIN has to hold aggro... you dont have the massive damage output (which is what high lvl MNKs relly on for holding aggro) and you dont have cures and Job abilities other than provoke (which is what PLDs relly on.) at later lvls Tanking is much harder, with all those high damage WSs (Viper Bite, Pentatrust, Vorpal Scythe) thats why very few WARs keep tanking after 40 or so... just Provoke wont cut it.

PS. I apologize by perhaps sounding like an ass, im not trying to question your play style, Im just bringing up points that i have observed from my experiece and discussing them...

[laicram]

Lan'Urk,

I don't think ur an ass =)

I am just trying to clear up issues for anyone attempting to follow this guide. If they follow my guide to the letter, they shouldn't expect to do great damage, or worry they might be an MP leech for low def.

Hey, your input is welcome. There was a "Monks can Tank" thread awhile back. A lot of points you made showed up there. It was inevitable that these points they would resurface under this sticky.

It's a general consenus amoung hi-lvl players that posted, that mnk tanking stops being practical the higher you go. So, this was noted in the guide... and I've personally validated Mnk being a good tank - if equipped properly, til 37.

To those following the thread, I've stopped lvling Mnk recently to focus on my main job. Other players on other threads have confirmed solid tanking higher than 37, but I can't endorse that personally until I've done it myself.

Cheers =)

[Brocino]

well, thanks alot for the input, both of u. im about to hit 36 and when i hit 40 or 42 ill reequip dmg dealing

[Tenrai]

Re: Monk Tanking guide to Lvl 30

Originally posted by laicram
Monk Tanking guide to Lvl 30


Purpose of this guide
To increase awareness of a Mnk's ability to be main tank at early levels. There are methods discussed in this guide where your defense can be equal or better than the standard War or Pal tank. Intended for new Monks - most Mnk30+ have already missed the boat on this.
Sub-War is a must for Provoke.


Why tank?
1) Train your guard. The easiest way to train guard is to be main tank. Otherwise, you have to train it when you solo. Why not train guard in PTs while you are still a viable tank at early lvls?

2) Insure proper management of hate. A good tank basically spams his voke. A lazy tank will only voke when the monster starts to leave. This can be bad for THFs in the PT, and mobs bouncing from target to target is generally annoying. (Unable to see target = less attacks)

3) EXP chain control. If you combine the role of "puller" with "main tank", you essentially control the pace of EXP chains. If you have a high standard of exp pace like me, you'll want to take charge.

4) To utilize your defensive abilities. At lvl 15, Wars have Berserk, while Mnks have Dodge, Counter, and HP up. If you have superior defense (more on that later), you can be main tank and free up the Wars in your Party to use Berserk.


Not for everyone...
If none of the reasons above call out to you, by all means, disregard this guide. Building a Damage Dealing monk is well-documented and widely practiced. It is the inevitable path of the Monk.

However, if you choose to build/equip a Mnk for tanking til 30, you'll find yourself alot more busy, in control and more responsible. Again, not for everyone...


Doesn't my Defense suck?
No! Mnks gain equivilant armor (to war and pal), just a few lvls later. Look below. It begins at Lvl 10 when you get Voke. (Mnk10/War5)

10-16 Harness. War and Monk are the same
17 Lizard. Wars are better.
18-20 Cotton Gi. You can match Lizard. (One point less than Liz)
21-23 Beetle. Equal to War.
24-28 Chainmail.
29 Soil Gi. Same def as Chain Mail.
30-34 Centurion.
35 Padded Harness. Equal to Centurion.
36 Silver Mail.

There are many points along the path where Mnk armor is just as good as War armor. At times they are not, but there are ways to still be superior.


Equip Def Up.
Tanking is all about the Def number. When equipping to tank, you must invest entirely on def up. Here are the items you want.

Leather Ring (def +1)
Stamina Rings (vit +2)
War Belt +1 (vit +3, hp+4)
Bomb Ring (def +2, hp +15)
Dharmel Mantle
Legionaire Subligar (vit +1)
Tiger Stole
Wolf Mantle +1
Giga Bracelet (def 9, HP+, Str+, Dex-, Agi-)

I prefer Beetle Earring to Shield Earring. Got plenty of HP, and the extra damage helps keep the hate better. The Federation Gi Set(lvl25) is uber, but not listed here cuz they are 40k a piece =O

Correct def gear is the first step. These items alone can make your defense better than most Wars. But if it doesn't...


Food - the great equilizer.
Boiled Crab and Fish Kabobs. They place your defense way above all others. They sell for 5k-6k a stack. The duration is quite long. No whining about the price - this is what you need to the best tank in the group. Learn how to make gil on another guide. Or, don't tank.


Commitment to Excellence, and The Real World vs A Perfect World.
Ppl will say "Pal + Food > Mnk + food". Well, duh. The reality is, I have never seen anyone use def food during my lvling to 30 - which I've done 3 times already. Sure a Mnk can't beat a War or Pal in better gear + food, but these ppl are rare. It's more likely you'll be PT'd up with a bunch of broke-@$$ noobs =D That is why, if you adhere to a commitment to excellence with food + equip, you will have the best def of the group 99% of the time.


Opposition and Blind Prejudice.
A monk built to tank is super-rare, so if you choose this path you will encounter plenty of opposition. No one expects a Mnk to have 40+ more def than a war, or 20+ def over a Pal. But when you got the best def, no one can argue with your numbers. You've earned the right to tank.


Tank past 30?
The def gap between Mnks and Wars/Pals begins to show around 40. And, I heard ppl actually start using def food this high up =O Tanking stops being practical at that point. But, it doesn't hurt to have Def Equip + Food around just in case.

A Mnk30/War15 gets Berserk (+ focus). To me, this is when a Mnk can stop tanking, and truely become a Damage Dealer.


Closing
I found this path quite enjoyable. Maybe you will, too.

These look like excellent guidelines for a monk wanting to become combat worthy. I really wish I knew all this when I started my monk, then maybe I would have had my guarding skill capped. My guard is at 40+ something, and I cant even lvl it up as fast as I want when I try to solo mobs worthy of combat. My evasion is capped at 100+ so that may be the problem why guard isnt goin up.

Laicram this material looks far more than just excellent for any beginnng monk, I really wish I knew what u knew way back then, then maybe my monk would have its full potential.