monk boost, doesnt help at all.. elaborate plz

[Shirow]

I thought the level of garlaige citadel was around 50+. I didn't know you can actually fight the enemies there at 42. sorry for getting off topic.

[Rico]

The only time I use boost is when I am about to do Renkei

/ja "Boost" <me>
/wait 2
/ws "Combo" <t>

I think it deal a little bit of extra dmg I find it kinda stupid when monks do boost every 6 seconds. - -

[spuncan]

hrm.. yah checked up on it just be sure, and yes boost does add a delay no matter when you do it, the only real good use for boost is chi blast and ws's you can do it b4 battles but not really worth it. oh and btw you can do ja's while an auto attack is in progress...

oh and don't put words in ppl's mouths, especially mods

[DJplaeskool]

Most of the numeric information here is about right...
it does add a level based percentage of your base attack to your current attack (if I am correct, this is non inclusive of any percentage attack bonuses, for example, food effects)...

I'm still debating it personally, but there my be some sort of additional attack bonus for use before WSs, but I'm not sure if that's the case...

MNK AF gloves have a Tameru up effect, which i believe gives you 50% more bonus attack from your base attack bonus...

As for the delay...
any usage of active abilities while in auto-attack mode will reset your attack pace, leaving the raw delay addition of the weapon equipped to be surpassed...
Flukes in boost/attack combinations are due to latency in the server based rate for autoattack and the client based command for action...
that's why sometimes you get boost animation, and no attack animation, despite hearing an attack and seeing damage. You can see your self by setting boost before a WS with a /wait 1 timer during heavy data reception or in a heavy load or crowded area. Also, movement during and after the boost can have adverse effects on timing. There are some timing instances where you will, numerically, lose an attack because of boost usage...That's why I advise against boosting randomly during battle...for the boost you get, it's not worth the effort...

I, personally, have seen kikoudan good for 2 things...
Pulling monsters and before initiating an attack after having boosted several times in succession...my current Kikoudan record is 486 damage...

[spuncan]

thank you for clearing that up DJ...

Im sorry to everyone I said was wrong when I was the one mistaken lol just doing what I could w/ the info available.

Prolly best thread we have in here for a while though

[Lone Dragon]

DJ says it, I'm cool with it,
but could you reword the delay part?
I'm having a little trouble with it.

I'd really hope I'd notice an extra 4.46 seconds. ._.

[DJplaeskool]

Rewording/Clarification:
Auto attack recovery from active ability use is based on the current weapon equipped. For monks, it will be the delay ratio addition based on the weapon. When you have finished using an active ability, for example, ª¿ªáªë, after the animation ends, the delay timer is restarted. The lower your weapon speed, the sooner you will attack.
ex:
Beat Cestas = delay48
Spartan Cestas = delay120
Both monks use ª¿ªáªë simultaneously, Monk with Beat sestas equipped will attack first. Note that I'm not positive what numerical methodology S-E uses for attack timing, but you can certainly agree with me when i say 48 is WAY less than 120...

This would be the definite case 100% in a perfect network, but latency can play havoc with timing, causing, as noted in my previous post, any number of strange effects, either in your favor, or against. Most of the time, it simply fiddles with the animation, some times, however, latency may throw macros and commands totally akimbo. So unless you are dealing with an ideal system, which we are not, we can't really quantify EVERY instance, but we can simply take what we have, which is the fact that weapon speed is the primary factor in attacking post-ability use.

Another, probably more important sidenote...
Grapple weapon speed isn't a raw number, like other weapons, but an addend to another stat based on your character...
I'm not totally sure which factor(s) into base character attack rate which the grapple rate is added to, but not all characters/charater types will attack in perfect unison, so that's another block in deciphering delay >.>

[Lone Dragon]

That's what I thought.
This explains why I never noticed a difference.
Impact Knuckles are +86 which is (if my info is correct) .86 seconds.
It was never long enough for me to really notice
or be that big of a problem.

So my real question is...

Am I wrong?
IS it worth it to use the Chain Boost macro during a fight?

Chain Boosting before Chi Blast doesn't seem worth the time it takes if the mobs are close by.
Using it before you opening attack is nice,
but it's not always that big of a boost
if the puller gets a monster before the 2nd Boost
(and the extra hate might be an issue.)

Meaning Boost's ONLY use is right before WSs
and stacking when you solo.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by DJplaeskool
Grapple weapon speed isn't a raw number, like other weapons, but an addend to another stat based on your character...
I'm not totally sure which factor(s) into base character attack rate which the grapple rate is added to, but not all characters/charater types will attack in perfect unison, so that's another block in deciphering delay

I believe the base H2H attack rate is as follows:

MA0 480
MA1 400(Lv1)
MA2 380(Lv15)
MA3 360(Lv30)
MA4 340(Lv45)
MA5 320(Lv60)

...then you have the weapon delay added on top.

So, for a MA3 MNK with a +60 delay grapple weapon equpped, real world delay is 360 (base) + 60 (weapon) = 420, or 4.2 seconds between attack cycles.

If, as you say, Boost resets your attack cycle, then here are the numbers we are looking at (I timed the Boost animation, and though earlier I assumed it lasted 1.5 seconds, it's actually very close to 3).

One of two situations is possible:

Attack cycle timer resets and starts counting at start of Boost activation:

360 base delay
60 weapon delay
= 420 delay (best case) - 840 delay (worst case)

This scenario assumes that the attack delay timer is running during the Boost animation. The difference between best and worst case scenarios is timing; best case is if you Boosted right after an attack, worst case is if you Boosted right before an attack (all timers reset). Obviously, if you're using a multi-boosting macro, you are going to get scattered results in that range.

However, I don't think that the above is really the case. I think that a more likely situation is the following:

Attack timer resets at start and starts counting at end of Boost activation:

Assuming an even 3 seconds (300 delay) for Boost activation, the numbers you are looking at are now as follows...

300 Boost delay
360 base delay
60 weapon delay
= 720 delay (best case), 1140 (!) delay (worst case)

The reason why I don't think the timer starts until after Boost animation is finished is because of another test I ran; with a 150 delay Beestinger dagger equipped, I did a Boost. If the timer reset and started running at the start of the Boost activation, I would attack with the Beestinger before the Boost animation is even completed. I don't attack until about 1 1/2 seconds after Boost finishes.

There is, however, a third possibility.

Attack timer is not reset by Boost, but is simply paused for the duration of Boost animation

If this is the case, then that would mean that Boost simply adds a straight 300 delay to your attack timer when you use it. I feel that this is the most likely solution, based on all the different tests I've run. If you're interested, just ask, and I'll explain the data & my interpretation of it; right now, I'm too tired to go into it. =P

So the upshot of everything is, for the tiny ATK bonus Boost gives you, it is simply not worth the tradeoff of potentially having nearly triple the delay. I think Boost is still a good ability for stacking before first attack, but that's about it.

[DJplaeskool]

Ah research...
wonderful...
Spider-Dan, thanks for your observation.
Now I want to investigate into this some more XD

[Lone Dragon]

I believe Boosting during a fight is more useful than boosting before a fight.

The damage you get from fully boosting (providing you don't miss) isn't substantial enough to make the ability worth using.
Keeping your average up benefits you more,
even with the (from what I see) negligible added delay.

It seems to add the delay from my weapon,
and that's worth it for my damage average.
There have been times when I forgot to chain boost,
and my damage usually takes a 2-8 point drop depending on the con (5-20 on the weaker monsters.)

Try using Tropical Punches and see what happens.

[Spider-Dan]

I actually just got rid of a set of Tropical Punches... it took me about a week, too. I'm never renting those again.

I am 100% certain that Boost does not just add the delay of the weapon. If this were correct, when unarmed it would add no delay at all. We already know that's not true.

I believe you misunderstood DJp's earlier hypothesis. I think that when he said something about "adding the weapon delay," he actually meant attack delay (on any class but MNK, those two terms essentially mean the same thing, but when you are using H2H, there is a big difference). All H2H weapon delays are added to base unarmed attack delays, so your real world "weapon delay" (as a Lv42MNK with +86 grapples) is 446.

Like I said, I don't even think that hypothesis is correct. I think the most likely scenario is that your attack timer stops during the Boost animation, which would mean you are adding a fixed 300ish delay every time you use Boost.

As far as when to Boost, I don't see how you can argue against Boosting when standing around waiting for a pull. It's free damage. As to whether or not the delay is worth the few extra points, this thread itself provides ample evidence (though anecdotal) that the damage difference isn't really even consistent. The whole reason behind the thread was that Boost doesn't seem to increase damage.

Now we can debate about whether there is a consistent, significant damage increase from one Boost (I don't think there is), and that's all well and good. But according to every reproducible test I can think of, Boost adds at least 300 delay when used during auto-attack. This is almost TWO TIMES the difference you get from Lv60 MA5. Surely you can't argue that this is trivial?