SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

[AnimeKing]

I've been playing for about 6 months or so and I've seen that for some time that DRG can do dmg with polearm and no other.
so wtf is with SAM's useing polearm's and doing a hellish amount of dmg even with gimp gear?

I've got some bad gear but my friend is a really gimp to hell SAM who's got a pole are that sucks, from what ppl say(Stone-splitter) and he's out beating me at every turn. I remind you all he's mainly a NIN or RDM so hes got evasion and Agility merits along with Katana.

If this is just me then I gota test other sams and drg's

[LadyKiKi]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

Consider the following:

SAM has access to equivalent/better TP/weaponskill gear than DRGs (more or less, up for debate, but consider gear like Haubergeon, Shura/Hachiryu Haidate and so on...)
SAM has Meditate, unsubbed Hasso, Store TP setups, and a free "sub" of their choice to further enhance damage (WAR, DRG, RNG if you're going the Bow/Arrow route), therefore can output weaponskills faster than a DRG
Penta Thrust is 5 hits
SAM's Polearm skill is B, but with access to good gear makes up for the skill loss
Polearm is usually used on birds which are weak to such a weapon
For mobs which are not difficult (high in defence) the 5 hits from Penta Thrust should (don't quote me I'm not a mathematician for this game!) do more than the standard 1 hit weaponskills from Great Katana

I'm sure more seasoned SAMs can give you a better idea why, but just food for thought for now

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

OP: Exactly what is in your TP set and in your WS set?

Keep in mind the SAM's B- Polearm skill means less accuracy and less attack compared to the DRG (240 vs. 276 at Lv.75), and DRG has access to the higher damage lances. So, if a SAM at the same level is beating you on Penta Thurst averages by a wide margin, your gear must be really horrible, or the SAM's gear must be really exceptional, or both.

* * *

As SAM75/NIN (w/out food or buffs), my current Penta Thurst set has me at
DMG: 86 (Tomoe)
Attack: 365 Attack (total)
STR: 76 (total)
DEX: 87 (total)
Accuracy: +53 (not counting DEX or Shadow Gorget)

I don't know DRG's gears, but I suspect the typical DRG can exceed the amount of attack I have, while not needing to worry about accuracy nearly as much as I do. The standard DRG weapon is Mezraq, right? That's 93 DMG vs. Tomoe's 86 DMG--yet another advantage for DRGs when it comes to Penta Thrust.

[AnimeKing]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

...i dont mean just me I mean a around.
I've seen geared SAM's out DD every DRG I've ever seen.
Like I was in a pt and there was another merit pt with only SAM's and one RDM. The SAM's were doing about 1100-1800 or so. but they were really killing the bird really fast. if your still not satisfied my merit pt had a really well geared DRG that had pretty much all the gear you could have at 75 that was for DRG and he was only doing 1000-1500 or so.

the average gear for a DRG would be Store TP gear with some ACC if needed, and the WS gear is usually pure STR gear.

DRG WS usually has 30-50% STR modifier, while SAM has 75% modifier.

weapon wise the Thal Lance 93-94(dont remember, dont care) is the best known weapon to get cause it's cheap and pretty much the same thing as mez lance.

[Neverslip]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

I've seen some really well geared DRGs do really awesome in bird parties and were pulling way higher numbers than us SAMs; but, us SAMs were WS'n way, WAY more than the DRGs and over all the SAMs pulled the hate potatoe more.. course us SAM didn't have a wyvern displacing some of the hate (which I think they do for DRG but might be mistaken). Also I wasn't able to quantify the additional damage output from a DRG's wyvern.

Though... I'd think SAM's skills Hasso and Meditate proly have a alot to do with you being out DD'd. I've rarely been in any merit party that wants the DDs to sub anything but /nin though I think some of the best TP burns don't require DDs to be /nin.

idk... it's early and I'm rambling.

[Malacite]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

You want the hard truth? SAM is SE's baby, and they're going to cuddle us until the day the servers go down


Honestly I didn't want to say it was that bad before but looking at it more objectively SAM seriously is OP. Access to amazing gear, 3 horrendously over powered weaponskills that combined with an equally broken weapon (Hagun) lead to some seriously unfair DD power.

Case in point I was trying to help my friends beat a WotG mission "The Long March North" (I needed it too) and were struggling to win it with me on BLM trying to sleep some of the lesser mobs while focusing on the count. So, after 2 or 3 failures we got a 6th to come BLM and I switched to SAM. Holy hell I nearly brought down the Count in 10 seconds flat from Meditate + Sekkanoki followed by Meikyo Shisui (4-step light and then one last Yuki so my WAR friend could use RR for Fragmentation. Would have used Kasha but she doesn't have KJ yet)

Now that was something of a skewed instance I'll admit since they were demons and I had our BRD soulvoice 2x minuet + warding circle to really jack my damage, but even I wasn't expecting to drop a nearly 2k Gekko wtf >_>


DRG's a solid job and you shouldn't put yourself down over the fact that SAM is so brutal. All the pet jobs have their power held in check just a tad (DRG probably the least so though BST has access to f'ing Ebody...) because if they were as strong as a non-pet job the pet would push them over the edge (hence why SE opted for B+ rating hand to hand on PUP rather than A)

Your class is built to shred anything that flies and shed hate while also making use of your dragon's unique powers (they're considering allowing heal breath on other sub jobs which IMO would be epic). SAM is all about gaining TP ASAP and abusing Weaponskills - It's only natural that we drop bombs on mobs. Though I have to admit Y/G/K are rather over powered.

Tachi: Gekko - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more


I'm not sure how much of the game's math you understand, but it's commonly believed that Y/G/K have hidden attack & accuracy modifiers vs pDIF that allow these 3 WS to deal more damage than they technically should be able to, particularly against higher level targets. The 75% STR mod is also rather obscene.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

...i dont mean just me I mean a around.
I've seen geared SAM's out DD every DRG I've ever seen.
Like I was in a pt and there was another merit pt with only SAM's and one RDM. The SAM's were doing about 1100-1800 or so.

Eyeballing is bad.

If you were to fun a parser, you'd find out the vast majority of SAMs do not average 1100+ WS on merit-level monsters, no matter which weapon they use.

Sub-1k is the norm.

[Malacite]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

Parsers are crap anyway. Useful for testing purposes, but that's about it. Seen way too many e-peen fights with parse results wherein the other participants weren't even aware they were being parsed (and thus not giving it their all)


But yeah SAM's a bandwagon job which means a lot of people playing it just because it's the "cool" thing to do. Hell I've beaten some SAM in meripo on BRD/NIN which is pretty sad (by feeding off their Gekko's for Darkness chains no less LOL oh sweet irony)

[Armando]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

Parsers are crap anyway. Useful for testing purposes, but that's about it. Seen way too many e-peen fights with parse results wherein the other participants weren't even aware they were being parsed (and thus not giving it their all)

Might as well say: "Statistics are crap. Seen way too many people use them to make stupid arguments or misleading statements."

[AnimeKing]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

Eyeballing is bad.

If you were to fun a parser, you'd find out the vast majority of SAMs do not average 1100+ WS on merit-level monsters, no matter which weapon they use.

Sub-1k is the norm.

I dont actually mean all that much just useing it to tell you all that SAM's are doing a hellish amout of dmg.
...........
Parse is bad unless you tell the group you got it up if anyone wants to test there might with themselfs.
If you dont tell ppl until after event/pt then thats just rude and makes you feel bad or angry, and ya may/will start up somthing.
...............

overall I think you got it though SAM's got the gear/weapon/traits/abilites while DRG has a wyvern thats a multi-use tool.
Now that you mention the wyvern hits I'll calculate there dmg with mine and look at the results

[Solymir]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

Why is a parse invalid if you do not tell the group you are running it? If I am spending my time in a merit party or w/e trying my best, I would hope others are doing the same whether or not a pare is running.

In my opinion if you are going to run a parse for your own information then I do not see a reason to tell the group.

Only time I ever told the group I was with the results was at LS events. FYI, I have not run a parse in well over a year.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

I hate posting in these things since im very bad at explaining my thought process but here it goes:

I am going to assume you guys were all /nin cuz thats the in thing with people now adays (like crystal meth and Hanna Montanna). So that leaves the problem with while the sam can use hasso and utsumei at the same time (+10 str acc and haste) you really dont have anything give you a boost offensive wise aside from your job traits. if you subbed war you would probably beat sams since your attack is way higher giving you a better edge even if they did sub war but your gonna need to some amount of tanking to occur in your party to prevent you from getting your ass handed to you in your 5 secs of fame. Might i recommend having those sam actually go /war or having a war be /sam and making a provoke order along the lines of third eyes recast? that way hates regulated, damage is migrated, and everyone else can be way more offensive.

[Solymir]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

That's way too much organization for a merit party. People are lazy.

[LeonstrifeLEV]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

My philosophy is "they're there anyway". this is so effective that it actually let my group beat lamprey lord without any kiting or "ws onry". Its the best way to tank in any tp burn.

[Mezlo]

Re: SAM's doing DMG over DRG?

I hate posting in these things since im very bad at explaining my thought process but here it goes:

I am going to assume you guys were all /nin cuz thats the in thing with people now adays (like crystal meth and Hanna Montanna). So that leaves the problem with while the sam can use hasso and utsumei at the same time (+10 str acc and haste) you really dont have anything give you a boost offensive wise aside from your job traits. if you subbed war you would probably beat sams since your attack is way higher giving you a better edge even if they did sub war but your gonna need to some amount of tanking to occur in your party to prevent you from getting your ass handed to you in your 5 secs of fame. Might i recommend having those sam actually go /war or having a war be /sam and making a provoke order along the lines of third eyes recast? that way hates regulated, damage is migrated, and everyone else can be way more offensive.

i want more posts by you please.