Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

[Srxjo]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

ok sorry for going off topic again but there was a Taru RDM/BST with less CHR on than me with underlvled sub charming what i had failed

Ontopic: the DRG's Puppet would miss all hits get 1 shotted by a AoE damage and from DoT AoE, better off keeping /WAR to add to your DoT then use /PUP to lessen your DoT, just imagine a lvl 37 fighting a lvl 75 becouse that is what you have

[Tokitoki]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

You would also need more waits in your macro for releasing the auto and calling the wyvern.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

The thing is, Lmnop, that a PUP when subbed has skill levels it would as it it were the level when it's subbed, not based on the level it actually is (as BST does with charms).

In other words, even if your PUP is 75, the most of any particular skill it would have subbed would be based on 37. At that point, I don't think any of the currently available attachments would help very much with the accuracy issue. This is a KNOWN fact -- sub pup and find out yourself.

In the lower levels, /PUP would work awesome. However, once the skills start getting too low for the mobs, I don't think it would really help all that much, with the possible exception of the mage puppet for healing -- but, with DRG, I would (hope) the Wyvern's healing breath would do more than a puppet.

[Lmnop]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

What Itazura was asking was information regarding this.

What if 'maton's skills are capped based off of your main job level, but only capable of being skilled up when PUP is main? I.e. a 75 PUP can max his 'maton so it's skills would be capped as a PUP of it's level on any other job he were to play.

If this were the case, you could level pup to 75 and then when you play thf/pup level 52, your automaton would have the skill cap of a 52 pup (because your PUP was already there).

Note that I'm not saying this is the case, that I think this is the case, or even that I want this to be the case. What I am saying, is that there are far too many assumptions being thrown around.

This is a KNOWN fact -- sub pup and find out yourself.

What Itazura* wants (and now, me too) is some supporting evidence of this. That is all.

*Btw, IfritnoItazura, I hope I'm not shoving words into your mouth.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

What troubles me is that no one has said "I tested this /PUP idea" with main job above Lv.20. Everyone just says it's half skilled, but none cites any reference or personal experience.

I can point to my sister's funny NIN37/BST60 and say, "Yep, that works!" (Because, if it doesn't, I'd be giving her R1's while she fuming at me for having suggested that combination to her. >_>; )

What we need here is someone with a job20++/PUP20++, go out and solo some DC to T's, and so can state with authority "Yes, it's good for _____!" or "No, it just sucks!"

Edit:

What Itazura* wants (and now, me too) is some supporting evidence of this. That is all.

*Btw, IfritnoItazura, I hope I'm not shoving words into your mouth.

lol. No, you got it precisely right. And, posted faster than me, to boot.

[Srxjo]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

it was in a post some where on this forum saying it caps at 37 skill i cant find atm thou =/

[Vyuru]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

Allrighty, been avoiding this thread until my test was over, and now that it's over I get to devote some time to it.

Keep in mind I know very little about the ToA jobs other than Cor can DD/buff, Blu can do just about anything, and Pup does, erm, stuff

Just going through DThrust's post:

As far as job traits for drg/pup go, we have no h2h ability, nor are there any h2h weapons that I am aware of that we can equip, so the martial arts trait is a tad useless. Resist slow is however, pretty nifty although seeing how well other resist traits work I am doubtful as to it's usefullness. I would suggest pairing it with a Purple Ribbon (Enhances resistance to all status ailments, rather potently too) however I think few people would be willing to give up their headslot for the chance to avoid a status effect.

Minor derail:

Although now that I think of it, I wonder if the Purple Ribbon would work on things like Amnesia? Hmmmmm, gonna test that out as soon as I can. Also I have to wonder about the element associated with Amnesia, I've heard people stacking on a ton of +earth gear completely resisting Break, I wonder if you could do that with Amnesia as well?

Rerail!:

General comments:

Spirit Link only works with wyverns as far as I know, although I have only tested it with summons and my NPC buddy, so you can not Spirit Link the Automaton if you so wanted. Because of the way Spirit Link works, I don't think that Empathy could work on an Automaton nor do I think an Automaton's WS would be boosted by Deep Breathing or affected by Strafe.

Long ago during an assault a friend came as blm/pup, we had a brief discussion about it, I don't remember the details and since he is in the middle of moving I can't ask him, I will as soon as I can though. However if I recall correctly, he said that the Automaton was level capped to your subjob's level, regardless of actual puppetmaster job level. His Pup level was about 38 at the time i think and he's probably now into the high 40s/low 50s as puppetmaster, so I'd pretty much trust his opinion, especially since he tends to think things through and is a bit of a perfectionist.

Another interesting factoid that he brought up was some kind of attachment that gave your Automaton Refresh, and doing something or other with the mage frame, and with that attachment, so that it could spam Cure II either almost constantly or alot.

Now, I don't know if the Automaton can cure other party members, but having a sidekick who can spam Cure II sounds rather attractive to me, depending on party and location that might be a handy thing to have.

However the DD frames will probably be lacking in accuracy and pure DD power. The Heat Seeker sounds interesting, but since it is a gradual +acc improvement I have to ask how much +acc/minute do they gain and compare that to the length of the fights. My gut instinct is that vs VT or IT mobs, it won't be that effective for awhile.

I'd like to know how much the Enthunder adds to your Automaton's attacks, I know at later levels a Rdm's En~ spells can be very potent.


With two pets you could potentially try dismissing the current pet when you see an AoE being charged up and then calling them out again if you wanted, assuming the pet is at full hp. I say with two because if you are even 1hp off then your recast timers are up and running and you are out of that pet for 20:00.


Hmm, it's true that our wyvern deals blunt damage, but our wyverns are also far more accurate than your common PC character. Plus the elemental breaths add a decent chunk of damage to our WS. Now you could dismiss the Automaton and call out your wyvern before a WS, but that seems a waste of the Automaton's TP, and your wyvern's breath attacks are effected by TP, so your wyvern won't be getting off any boosted breath attacks. Now my wyvern generally doesn't get off many as it is because I tend to reach 100% tp faster than she does, but that is still something to take into consideration.

Since the Automaton will be level capped at lvl 37 at it's highest level it will be very susceptiable to AoEs of any kind. Imp's Poisonga II can take Lumiere from full health to slightly under half health, maybe more on a bad day, and that is with her and I at lvl 70, what's it gonna do to a lvl 37 Automaton? Not to mention the Puk's AoE attacks, which while not really damaging, they tend to spam alot, far more so than other mobs do it seems.

Damselflies in the Mire are also a problem, Cursed Sphere hasn't gotten any more Wyvern friendly in 54 some odd levels since the Dunes, or Gustav Tunnel.

So it sounds to me that the best way to do this would be to have a mage puppet setup for healing, if possible and I don't know if it is. It would also depend on the attachments, mp less flash is pretty nifty, although I wouldn't bring a puppet just for that purpose, but it is another perk.


So as I see it, offensively, no good. Samurai subjob will give you a lower level of hate and probably raise your damage output to equal a Warrior's subjob, or close to it, but without as much hate. Offensive wise, I'd probably take either /sam or /war over /pup in the higher levels, low levels, like pre lvl 20 or 30 may be different. /pup paired with a NPC buddy may be a devastating combo, but then so is drg/mage in any level range really.

Healingwise, it's kinda hard to say without more info on the healing abilities of an Automaton. But assuming top of the line gear (really top of the line) you've got Ethereal Earring, Ares Body, Sanction Refresh, and Wyrm Armet. That is a ton of auto refresh for a drg/mage, who needs so little mp for a big return to hp. Ethereal Earring for those AoE friendly mobs, and Wyrm Armet for even more potent healing breaths, just do the Drachen/Wyrm Armet macro swap to gain benefits of both.

Yes, an actual instance of where I approve of macro gear swaps, shocking

And here again, your wyvern benefits in more powerful healing breaths with more TP, so it's handy to have them out meleeing. The only downside is that your party member has to be at 50% hp to use it. Merit Deep Breathing and I'd be interested in seeing just how high Healing Breath can go.

[Vyuru]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

Allrighty, heard back from my friend and he does confirm that the puppet's level is capped to that of the subjob. So with a lvl 75 job you will have a lvl 37 puppet, assuming lvl 37+ puppetmaster job of course.

[nickofearth]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

No offense, but... no. If i wanted a puppet, I'd level PUP. I meh Ember and wouldn't give her up for a puppet. Seriously our Wyverns is what makes Dragoon special (at least in my eyes.) SMN, BST and PUP all have pets that they can order to fight. DRG has a pet wyvern that fights along side the Dragoon. Like a special bond, not a master/slave relationship.


Also, early on puppets were full leveled @75 (even if pup as lvl1) but they fixed that. Having a half level pet isn't worth having. Having a wyvern out full time and occastionally using Deep Breathing and/or macroing your Wyrm Armet would be much better.

[raidenn]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

I hear that comment all the time in allakazam....
"my wyvern is my partner... notmy slave..."

[massaranger]

Re: Drg/Pup----- Is it possible?

Stats are a little wacky at the low levels, so I'm not inclined to judge the viability of charming Tough's using /BST from 1/BST75. I can say that as NIN/BST, my sister seemed to have had more difficulty charming T bats than as BST.

I doubt BRD75/BST1 can charm all that well; call it a hunch.

Well they can charm ok they get a song that charms mob without bst so i can assume with /bst thsy can hold there own.