DRG Elitist BS

[Macht]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

Yeah, thing I've noticed in this game is you do have elitist with a one tracked mind. They find a equipment set that's has many praises and then conforms himself to it, taking it even further he himself will attempt to conform others to it also.

In the end this single setup starts become a definition and if you don't follow you're a n00b. Ever get into a logic discussion with these people? There last and final reasoning for trying to conform you is because "Everyone else does it so it must be the best, especially for how long the games been out". It's a pretty crappy excuse to me, especially since many Walkthroughs I've seen for games 5+ years old can be crappy. Hell the Walkthroughs I've seen for games like DragonQuest VIII are pretty pathetic. Yeah many are doing it because it's had positive effect and has been positively praised, does it mean it's the best option or method? HELL NO!!!!!!

Will you be able to convince those that disagree though? Likely will not.

So best thing is to just let them believe what they want and you do what you want. If they push it and start ruining your fun then a neutral 3rd person abitration is needed, aka. GMs.


Pretty the same as people complaining about RNG/WAR being less effective. Complaining about their defense and getting owned, but they totally dismiss gear that RNG can use for better defense when it's needed. I call it my Uragnite Plan.

[Sevv]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

Personally i rocked alot of Af thru lvl 60 after lvl 60 i started getting better gear got my sh at like 61 maybe, i lvled drg cuz i liked it and was always trying out new things. Play the way you want to not what others say. Hell i soloed from 71->72 because i wanted to see how well i could. I kept my gear at par if nto a little better because i had the gil. When i hit 75 thats when i started really putting gil into my drg. i have almost 2 sets of gear for my drg now one for dot/tp gain and one for ws. Play to have fun not to spend all ur time trying to meet someone who has to make others look bad to try and feel better.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

I don't know that you can argue the same conformism in FFXI as you do in an offline game Macht. People don't suggest certain gears just because "everyone is doing it." They suggest them because they are, in fact, superior. I suppose end the end you have to juggle a few things. Price/Fashion/Performance. It's up to the player to decide how much of one they are willing to give for the others.

I can understand people not wanting to buy certain gears because the price/performance ratio isn't that good (PCC comes to mind). I could also see someone arguing any type of subligar in the Fashion/Performance proportionality.

I suppose my mindset comes specifically from needing to go the extra mile as a taru doing things like melee and tanking (BRD/NIN ftw). I will almost always choose performance > fashion and will also spend that extra day or two farming for a piece of gear that will perform extremely well.

[Jei]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

I'm glad there's no subligar that's good for Rdm... I knew I didn't want to wear one when I was playing Mnk.

[Macht]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

I don't know that you can argue the same conformism in FFXI as you do in an offline game Macht. People don't suggest certain gears just because "everyone is doing it." They suggest them because they are, in fact, superior. I suppose end the end you have to juggle a few things. Price/Fashion/Performance. It's up to the player to decide how much of one they are willing to give for the others.
I can understand people not wanting to buy certain gears because the price/performance ratio isn't that good (PCC comes to mind). I could also see someone arguing any type of subligar in the Fashion/Performance proportionality.
I suppose my mindset comes specifically from needing to go the extra mile as a taru doing things like melee and tanking (BRD/NIN ftw). I will almost always choose performance > fashion and will also spend that extra day or two farming for a piece of gear that will perform extremely well.

Actually offline to online games I've been able to make relations quite well on them. I've been in quite a few logical discussions with people in FFXI and many times when I present an idea or new strategy, there are the people that shoot it down saying that'll never work. In the end they've often agreed of it's potential but still refuse it on the basis that out of all this time the games been up why hasn't anyone else thought of it?

It's the same BS I got on Anarchy Online when I went with weapons with Very Low delay even though the weapons with higher delay had nearly a 3-4 time higher damage ranking. Most sites that would "calculate" the damage results always made my choice look like it was a bad one, but the actual play showed it to be far stronger. It was a pretty funny PvP match I had once too, the could of killed me in 2 hits if he survived long enough for the weapons delay. Unfortunatly the speed of my attacks won over brute force.

Lol, hell I even surprised a friend of mine who'd been playing AO for a long time. He said he was always told that Low Delay weapons were crap, so he played the game building to what was a 'definition' without ever knowing. Same thing goes with DQVIII as I had found with the Dragovian Trials, so many walkthroughs and every one of them never mentioned anything to what I had done to win them. The walkthroughs by players even were modified ones of the published walkthroughs and would attack eachother of which method they felt was best.

Still none of them mentioned that there is a way to negate a large amount of damage. I knew there was a reason I liked Jessica and not because of her Bunny Suit, Swimsuit, Dangerous Bustier, or Divine Bustier.

[Celeal]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

IMHO, if my exp. party can gain fast/good exp over time, I don'y really care what gear is the player is using.

If the party is slacking, or there is room of improvement, then I would try to see what is wrong. Very often, as long as the DD's gear is has "enough" acc/atk/str, then it is non-issue.

Actually, there is an issue when the DD's gear is "too good," and that DD ends up "tanking," which is the real problem.

As for DRG's AF, if I am leveling DRG, I would consider:
Feet --- Crow Gaiters (DEF:8 Evasion+4 Enmity-4) and swap AF feet for Jumps.

Hands --- I think AF hands has its use. I mean you can wear STR+ or ATK+ or ACC+ hands and boost the damage output of you lance, but it also increase your hate too. On the other hand, AF hand can increase the acc. of the Wyvern, and the spread to the Wyvern.

Increase of lance damage vs. Increase Wyvern's acc. Unless there is parsed data, I won't say AF hand sux.

Since Wyvern's TP is related with the effect of Healing Breath, it is great for drg/whm (or other defensive Wyvern subjob).

"Every 20% Increase in [Wyvern's] TP will Increase your Healing Potential. In total [Wyvern's] Breaths can have 15 Increments."

Body --- AF body can be swapped in between pulls or downtime. Wyvern Regen keeps your pet alive longer. A dead Wyvern deals zero damage

For DD, SH or Peti.

Pants --- Besides Republic subligar, I think Crow Hose (DEF:20 Evasion+5 Enmity-5) is nice too.

Head --- Swap in AF head before using WS.

[Vyuru]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

Gear wise:

You know, I'd just wear the AF feet until you can get something really good at lvl 70+, most other footwear offers so little benefit to the overall gear build that I have never noticed a difference, same for the Bastokan Subligar/Tiger Trousers, as a drg/war I see little effect to wearing them, so I really wouldn't heckle another player over it.

Now that IS assuming that the rest of their gear is good and all. I think it's the case for all AF that it is situational.

AF hands aren't bad per se, but toss in a naturally highly accurate wyvern and when you consider the other gloves out there, Jaridah, Enkylados Bracelet, Spiked gloves, and I don't think they are the best thing to use.

And you know, until Celeal mentioned it I never even considered the Crow armor line. I tend to draw alot of hate now in parties but that is a mix of slightly weak mobs and bad/no tanks, it would be interesting to see how effective the -enmity on it would be.

Regretably though once I hit 70+ there are just too many good pieces of DD equipment out there for me to use, and to be honest I damn well expect the tanks to hold their own and enough of this sissy tank pile of chocobo droppings, I wanna splurge on gear and really go wild in parties without having to hold back, much.

They find a equipment set that's has many praises and then conforms himself to it, taking it even further he himself will attempt to conform others to it also.

Not just that, but it seems the more right you are, the angrier the other person gets >.>

I honestly don't care if the player doesn't have the best gear, I just expect them to try their best, within reason, in the party.

There last and final reasoning for trying to conform you is because "Everyone else does it so it must be the best, especially for how long the games been out".

Gotta love that one >.>

BTW: I've never seen one of the DRGs that suck. What server are they on? I also don't think DRG really gets any worse invite rates than any other DD, unless the party is being formed to fight bones

Drg that sucks? Hmmm, I remember this one drg, all AF, lvl 14 NQ dex rings, no waist, neck, back, and hp+ earrings. Spammed Penta Thrust with an annoying /say macro. She leveled it about the same times and places I was leveling at the time, so it was kind of interesting to compare our damage output since I was testing a full dex gear setup at the time.

Drg invite rates kind of vary, high levels I normally make my own, so since I'm the party leader I don't get invites, and when I'm not a party leader I'm /mage or some other sub, which people assume I party with and rarely send me a /tell.

Low levels though I tend to join parties more often than not, and sometimes I see a "drg sucks" comment and sometimes I don't, it seems that more often than not they will invite a drg if not many other jobs are seeking, assuming that it's not a group of friends that static together, or that it's not a bunch of people who just repeat invites.

And now I've gotta run without cleaning this page of random thoughts up, so I will leave you all with this page full of (Impossible to Guage) (Mithra) (Mind)! comments

[Yeargdribble]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

If you think there's no point in getting the Republic Subligar at 25 because it's only Atk+5 then why even bother getting Feral Trousers at 63 with the exact same stats (give or take a few DEF)?

If you say this about every piece of gear, you quickly end up in a situation of having crappy gear over all. Why wear Battle Gloves? They are only Acc+3. Same with Venerer's... why bother? Same with the Peti... it's only 5 atk and only 5 acc.

If anything, the Rep Sub is better at a lower leve because it represents a much greater portion of your over all atk and consequently damage.

If you use the mentality of it only being so much on several slots, you'll slowly nickel and dime yourself into gimpness at worse or mediocrity at best.

[Karinya]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

Body: There's really no debate that either Peti or SH is superior. If you have enough acc build you could even argue that Peti > SH, though both are far better than AF for XP PTs.

And if you can afford an SH, then you should be comparing to *Akinji* Peti, anyway; although more expensive than Jaridah (duh), it's still much cheaper than SH.

This part I agree with: you shouldn't exp in AF body. There's a cheap, powerful piece (Jaridah Peti) that everyone should be able to get and use, and it will have a significant effect.

That doesn't necessarily mean the *rest* of the AF set is bad for parties, though.

Hands: SFG are great, especially if you have decent acc. Battle Gloves or Jaridah Bazubands both outperform the DRG. In XP, your DoT will be far more important than your Wyvern's DoT and you have no need for parry. Acc+3 > DEX +3 by far.

You have a very strange definition of "by far" if you think that +1-2 personal acc is better "by far" than an unspecified amount of wyvern acc. Hell, +2 personal acc isn't better "by far" than nothing at all.

Of course, battle gloves are cheap, so you might as well, but SFG are going to outperform both - by far. For real.

Head: Walk/Valk Mask better for your DoT vs the Wyverns just like with the hands. Slighly less far and away better than the above.

Wrong, they'll be a much *bigger* difference than battle gloves vs. AF, especially since the DEX on AF is already providing 1-2 acc. Underestimating the importance of attack is the #1 mistake DDs make.

Still want to swap them out for AF head for WS though.

Legs: Republic Subligar (or cuisses depending on conquest) are waaay better than the AF legs.

Slightly better - if you're not getting hit, which depends a lot on your tank.

AF legs add absolutely nothing for a PT DRG. Something > nothing always. (btw the subligar is Atk, not STR) I'd say these are even less up for debate than the head.

Wrong again: wyvern HP affects wyvern breath damage (and swapping them in won't help, because you'll just have a wyvern at 500/550 hp or whatever). The overall effect is probably slightly less than Republic - if you never get hit, including by AoE. Otherwise you're going to miss that huge def difference. Wearing armor that's 30 levels old has its downsides, especially in one of the major defense slots. I might also have to keep crow in mind the next time I party with a nin...

Being a damage dealer isn't just about dealing damage; avoiding being an unnecessary drain on the healers is important too. The bottom line is the party's total exp/hr and you don't improve that by being too reckless. Certainly 1 def is less valuable than 1 atk, but is 2 def less valuable than 1 atk? 3 def? There has to be a point somewhere where you say it's not worth giving up that much defense for that little offense, and I think reasonable people can differ on whether or not Rep. Subligar crosses that line.

Oh, and if you're dealing with someone who's not filthy rich, maybe we should be using *Bastokan* subligar as the comparison: that's only 3 atk, which makes it an even worse tradeoff. It's helpful to be rich to equip a DD - that's one of the reasons I didn't do one as my first or second job - but I wouldn't go so far as to demand that nobody level a DD unless they can afford to drop 80k on +5 atk. Some people are struggling to afford new weapons.

Feet: Fed Gaiters or Rep Greaves (both conquest sadly) toast the AF feet except perhaps for a jump macro. However, these may not be worth the money or effort to carry around for some people (understandably so). These are probably the most debatable.

Well, at least you're not demanding winged boots or some crap like that. Yeah, when they're active, those items are nice, but who levels outside Aht Urhgan anymore?


The only ones that give a bonus big enough to notice without extensive parsing are the Jaridah Peti (or SH, if you can afford it), spiked finger gauntlets and maybe valk/walk mask. And it isn't reasonable to demand the SFGs because of cost. So I stand by my earlier statement that while wearing *full* AF is foolish, wearing *some* AF can be quite reasonable.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

Topic about gear elitism invaded by the inane number-crunching types that make DRG hard to enjoy to begin with. Shocker.

To the OP - there's just this odd strain of players that dedicate themselves to having the best-of-the-best gear and expect you to strive for the same and prance around in the same exact gear they do. It doesn't matter to them that you may have some of this gear and do your job well by macroing it in during EXP. It doesn't matter to them that you may, in fact, have a life - they expect you to actually wear what they wear all the damn time for everyone to see.

In essence, they're a virtual Joan Rivers, demeaning anyone walking down their little red carpet.

They want to believe they had it hard, that they stuggled to the top in what they believed to be the hardest job in the game to level. As such, they find any player who's not like them to be offensive or "making us look bad."

Some of these people just don't realize, understand or appreciate that this MMORPG is part of a vast series - not unlike World or Warcraft - and that there's some symoblism to each job's armor that is derived from the main series classics. Its an element there for the fans.

There are people who enjoyed Kain, Shadow, Cecil or other representations of jobs from the main series that like wearing the armor they wore. They're fans. And the OP obviously is either a fan or really just likes how it looks.

Nothing wrong with that. I have an Optical Hat I refuse to wear on Corsair, should I go fugly just because I'll get two more ranged accuracy over AF hat? Seems like clutter to me, I'll just save it for RNG and other jobs.

Don't let these types of people get to you. You play FFXI and let them play whatever game they think they're playing. If you're in a job and you really love it, you'll do what's best for that job within your means and take the time to do so. However, it doesn't mean you have to fufill people's expectations on appearance off the battlefield. To hell with those people and just have fun.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

However, it doesn't mean you have to fufill people's expectations on appearance off the battlefield.

I agree you don't have to fulfill anyone's expectations when you're running around in town gear. However, it's a different story in an XP PT. Sure the game is about having fun. But if you get a rep as the type of player that goes for Fashion > Performance in XP, you will likely be spending increasing amounts of time and less time actually having fun and enjoying the game.

You have the right to play the way you want, but you also have to realize this is a game populated with a lot of other people. If those people would prefer that you wear more functional gear and don't want to invite you wearing less functional gear, then you may find yourself playing with an increasingly smalll group of players.

It's much the same as RPing. I think RPing is a cool concept, but I don't really RP in the game. People that RP pretty much have to set up their own communities and don't fit well into the broader community.

I guess I just can't imagine choosing to wear a piece with nearly no good stats over a piece with good stats that's available at a low level for a low price. Nobody is asking you to buy a PCC.


EDIT: It's also not like I'm not a fan of the series. I've finished every game in the series except for CC. Most of them i've finished multiple times. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've play FFIV. It's not like I don't wanna look cool and I'll love the day when I'm running around in AF and absolutely can't wait to finish my Relic for DRG... but that doesn't mean I'll wear it all the time either. When you're a job (and in my case race) that has a rep for being crappy, your best bet is to impress the pants off of people. A good rep goes a long way in this game. People know that I wear good gear on all my jobs even if it's 'just a subjob.' People that know this throw my name in the mix and I get quick invites as a result quite often.

Likewise, the DRK from my PT the other night that didn't have ANY magic will have increasing trouble getting invites when someone asks about him and people say 'yeah, he doesn't have any spells and really crappy gear.'

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

You know, I'd read all that past the "however," however, the OP stated that he had most of this gear and used in EXP, so what's the point in pointing out gear he likely has? Not having a valkyrie or walkure mask won't kill you these days. Nor will not having sniper rings. We have lots of alternatives now.

Keep in mind, at 54+ for EXP, what's commonly fought is VT. We subscribed to accuracy and attack extremes when everything we did was IT+++.

That has changed, people who labored over RoZ or CoP need to accept things have changed. What the OP is doing is perfectly acceptable so long as he's gearing himself adequately on accuracy.

[dirtyclown]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

your best bet is to impress the pants off of people

Kiss enough ass and you'll go far, amirite? Just because you are anal about your equipment doesn't mean everyone else should be too. This thread started out about a guy freaking out because the OP wasn't wearing his preferred gear set, which plagues this game, and you're exhibiting that mindset right now. Last time I checked, this game was about havng fun. If someone's fun is ruined because random DRG #2334465745 isn't wearing 3 more points of accuracy, then they need to do the world a favor and kill themselves. Also, enjoy your masochism.

[Yeargdribble]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

I'm just saying, DRG has a bad enough rep as it is. Why make it worse for yourself and others by CHOOSING to wear subpar gear when you have better gear ON you.

Do you find it fun LFP?

There's no need to make it worse on yourself. I'm not saying everyone should go out and get 2xHQ Snipers and a PCC charm. However, the gears which he has that are better, are fairly cheap gears. Choosing not to wear them only hurts him and potentially hurts everyone else when he ends up reinforcing the loldrg stereotype.




EDIT:

I was trying to figure out why I give a crap and where I get this attitude and it came to me. I'm a musician IRL (piano and trumpet). If I go to a gig and play with a group of musicians, I could potentially not do my best, or not practice before the gig and I'd still get that gig. However, if I play my best at a gig, I will get more gigs. Word of mouth spreads if you do well at a gig.

However, I know people who've ruined their chance to get gigs by being unprepared at a gig and I've over-heard people suggesting not to give a gig to someone. The game works just like this.

Like it nor not, the game works on reputation and whether or not it's 'just a game', you have to play with others and your reputation still matters.

Everyone else is an elitist too... just to a smaller extent. If you got in a PT with a RDM with almost no gear and no spells, you'd remember it. What if he was the type that wanted to be a melee RDM and played it for fun... Besides, it's just a game, right? That RDM would get a reputation and eventually would have trouble getting invites if he only wanted to melee and level RDM for the cool looking AF.

The OP isn't like that, but it's the same principle. People who don't do well won't get far. You may say it's different because the OP has gear and uses it. Would it be better if said RDM had Cure, but refused to ever cast it because it wasn't fun to him? That is a little more exactly what the OP is doing. He has it, but doesn't use it.

While you probably wouldn't kick the OP from your PT, you would kick a RDM that refused to cast spells (Refresh anyone?) and only meleed. If you wouldn't kick him, you at least wouldn't PT with him again.

Does that make you elitist?

[dirtyclown]

Re: DRG Elitist BS

I'm just saying, DRG has a bad enough rep as it is. Why make it worse for yourself and others by CHOOSING to wear subpar gear when you have better gear ON you.

Bullshit, DRG have a far better rep than they did back in 03, and anyone worth a damn knows that they've always been a solid DD. Getting wtfpwn gear only opens the door for all manner of retards to send invites.

There's no need to make it worse on yourself. I'm not saying everyone should go out and get 2xHQ Snipers and a PCC charm. However, the gears which he has that are better, are fairly cheap gears. Choosing not to wear them only hurts him and potentially hurts everyone else when he ends up reinforcing the loldrg stereotype.

You're not saying that people need to go get "good gear" but you just said in your last post that you have to have "good gear" to impress people and therefore not make DRG look bad. The OP has explained quite clearly why he uses the gear set that he has, and he's not hurting anyone by doing so. You are the one who is reinforcing the lolDRG stereotype by getting so flustered over it. It's people like you that make this entire game a pain in the ass to play, because you care too much about what others are doing. It wouldn't matter to me if the OP was prancing around in starting RSE gear, at least he isn't a tool, and that's what would make me invite him over you any day of the week.