Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

[Celeal]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

I tried /sam out after that patch. Granted I used meat instead of sushi... I was far from impressed by it. 5 str when sam main gets 10? lol 5 is nice but I'd rather have 10 too >.> Acc isn't really needed for me I'd rather have attack >.> Thank's for the offer but I'll keep /war, with sushi and str/atk (few peices of acc) gear for penta pwn.

I don't understand.

You said you would rather have attack.... isn't attack+ food give you +attack? Unless you eat the wrong attack+ food that caps below your base attack...

It is true that Hasso caps at +5 STR for /SAM, but if you /WAR, you don't even have that +5 STR at all...

If you like penta pwn, isn't Store-TP, 60% TP every 3 minute and 10% attack speed up from Hasso let you penta pwn more offen?

You said you don't need that acc+ from Hasso. If you acc is enough, why not go for attack food gear setup?

All I see is contradiction.

If your gear is build for sushi and atk/acc gear for DRG/WAR, I do not expect the same set of gear would work with attack+ food and DRG/SAM.

I would be appreciated if you list the gear and food that you used for DRG/SAM, so we can have a better understanding what was going on.

[Celeal]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

With the timer of the Jump (1:30), High Jump (3:00), Mediate (3:00), Super Jump (3:00), I think lvl 60+ DRG/SAM can do the following:

Assume that DRG/SAM's TP return is 16 TP per hit.
Penta Thurst (5 hit) = 16 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 20 TP

When Mediate is ready for use.
At over 100% TP, DRG/SAM use Penta Thurst,
Penta Thurst returns 20 TP,
DRG/SAM uses Mediate,
While Mediate is charging up TP, DRG/SAM hits the mob once (20 TP + 16 TP = 36 TP),
When Mediate is finished, DRG/SAM's TP is at 96% (36 TP + 60 TP = 96 TP),
Hits the mob once more (96 TP + 16 TP = 112 TP),
DRG/SAM uses Penta Thurst (Penta Thurst #2),
Penta Thurst returns 20 TP,
DRG/SAM hits the mob once (20 TP + 16 TP = 36 TP),
DRG/SAM uses Jump (36 TP + 16 TP = 52 TP),
DRG/SAM hits the mob again (52 TP + 16 TP = 68 TP),
DRG/SAM uses High Jump (68 TP + 16 TP = 84 TP),
DRG/SAM hits the mob 3rd time (84 TP + 16 TP = 100 TP),
DRG/SAM uses Penta Thurst (Penta Thurst #3),
DRG/SAM use Super Jump to remove all the hate.

In other words, that is "3x Penta Thurst burst" every 3 minutes.

If the pet is active, that means 3x Penta Thurst + 3x Breath Attack every 3 minutes.

Since High Jump's timer 3 minutes, Jump's timer is half of High Jump's, they fit perfectly well with Mediate's 3 minutes timer. Now that Super Jump has 3 minutes timer, it can remove the hate after that "3x Penta Thurst burst" everytime.

DRG/SAM also has Hasso (10% attack speed up) and Zanshin. Even a miss hit in Penta Thurst there is always Zanshin for second chance. The worst case when Zanshin does not trigger, it only delay a swing or two, and Hasso will speed things up.

Regardless of sushi build or meat build, this tactic should work as long as the DRG/SAM have enough acc. It looks very good to me for TP burn parties.

[raidenn]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

Wow you are really expecting to do that many weapon skills in 3 minutes?

[Celeal]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

Well, there is another option to split it up:

Penta Thrust -> Mediate -> Penta Thrust -> ... mob dies

next battle,

Penta Thrust -> Jump + High Jump -> Penta Thrust -> ... mob dies

It can be very flexible.

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

/war will get you more damage as i've found, but sinking mp isn't nice either and won't win you any popularity contests with your party. I'm getting ready to merit on my drg again ( i did category 2 merits before i did category 1). I'm going to fully merit super jump and high jump recast timers because one is 5 secs of invincibility and both do hate removal.

With /sam one of the best things is Seigan and third eye. In a recent party i anticipated 5 attacks and countered one, got hit once and put third eye up again. Really useful for reducing the amount of stress on your magical party memebers. I know when i play smn the most annoying part of partying is when someone is taking so much damage that i can't give them all the buffs i want to. Hasso and Zanshin give a good overall boost to your hit rate and your speed, but meditate is great as well when i want to pull hate to use super jump or high jump on. Honestly the str on hasso was the last thing i looked at since i already have +54 str when i party as drg.


Most of the time if you're 75, all subbing war does is get you killed faster or annoy tanks and mages. Dragoon just hits too hard on its single swings to want to sub war, as well as the fact that crits alone as drg or drk can top 330 damage. I like sam sub. The element of defense it adds through third eye as well as the instant tp allow you to do a lot of things easier.

[nickofearth]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

I don't understand.
You said you would rather have attack.... isn't attack+ food give you +attack? Unless you eat the wrong attack+ food that caps below your base attack...
It is true that Hasso caps at +5 STR for /SAM, but if you /WAR, you don't even have that +5 STR at all...
If you like penta pwn, isn't Store-TP, 60% TP every 3 minute and 10% attack speed up from Hasso let you penta pwn more offen?
You said you don't need that acc+ from Hasso. If you acc is enough, why not go for attack food gear setup?
All I see is contradiction.
If your gear is build for sushi and atk/acc gear for DRG/WAR, I do not expect the same set of gear would work with attack+ food and DRG/SAM.
I would be appreciated if you list the gear and food that you used for DRG/SAM, so we can have a better understanding what was going on.

My gear is still a work in progress.

Weapon: Mezraq (also carry Bourdonasse, Kinkobo, Joyeuse*mostly for fun*)
Ammo Tiphia Sting/ Angon (macroed in for Angon)
Head: Wyvern's Helm (sushi)/Ohat (meat)
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Body: Narasimha's Vest (Wheeling)/Assault Jerkin(Penta) *Also have Scorpion Harness I rarely use)
Back: Amemet Mantle +1
Hands: Tarasque Mitt's +1 (sushi)/Wyrm Finger Gauntlets (meat)
Earrings: Assault Earring/Bushinomimi
Rings: Sniper's Ring/Ruby Ring (can sub in a Venerer Ring if needed)
Legs:Barone Cosciales
Waist:Warwolf Belt (also have Life Belt if i need it)
Feet: Hecatomb Leggings (working on getting Amir Boots)

Yes, I know I my gear needs lots of work.

I said I'd rather have +attack over +acc via hasso. I eat meat sometimes over sushi /war too. Just depeneding on what I feel like doing. I usually use Coeurl Suba if not using Sole Sushi. +5 Strength is nice (that is what capped STR merits is), don't get me wrong, but I don't think I really need it. I usually don't do Wheeling Thrust outside of God Fights which I sub Thief anyways. The Haste is very nice, especially having to wear 4% slow full time until I can get Amir Boots, but I rarely am not hasted and my TP gain is good as is. I would prefer Double Attack (which procs a lot for me, can't wait til I get Sea and can work on a Brutal Earring), and Berzerk via Warrior sub over what I get Samurai sub. Berzerk especially for my Weapon Skills. Meriting as /sam my Penta Thrusts were 500-600 damage as apposed to 700-900, breaking 1k many times with Angon. As Far as hate goes as DRG/WAR ya i get hate a lot but that is what High Jump and Super Jump is for. I am not a big MP sink.

Summary: I prefer Double Attack and Berzerk over Hasso and Meditate.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

Wow you are really expecting to do that many weapon skills in 3 minutes?

I've actually done this many times already as /SAM; you'd be surprised how much faster TP gain is with this sub (without even trying). The TP rate is at least *double* what I saw as a /WAR, hands down. Add in the faster attack rate, and fewer missed strikes (thanks to Zanshin), and I honestly don't see much of a reason to sub /WAR unless... um... ...actually, I can't see a reason at all.

I never liked having to hold back as /WAR, and that's not because the tanks aren't doing thier jobs (although some that I've seen these days are kinda lacking, nin and pld both...), but it's becuase of the fact that Super Jump, as great as it is now, isn't always up, and being an MP sink is no fun (and I already do that well enough through Spirik Link [ Empathy]). /SAM allows me to do more faster, and I don't have to worry about taking hate or damage, becuase I can now mitigate both, and get away scott free with spamming Penta or helping with a big SC.

Oh, and one more thing, this is just a personal issue, but I *HATE* having to hold the SC up because I don't have TP ready. That was an issue I had from time to time as /WAR (not often, but enough to annoy at least me). I haven't had to deal with that much at all anymore with /SAM, as it is easy to manipulate my TP gain now.

[Celeal]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

nickofearth, thank you for your response ^^

Very nice gear. I would agree that you don't need Hasso for more ACC or STR.

On the other hand, if using DRG/SAM, Hasso may let you replace 10 acc and 5 str from your gear with something else :D

Unfortunately, there isn't any attack+ gear in this game that is as good as 25% increase from Berserk at level 75. If the player wants more attack, the most logically choice is /WAR for Berserk.

Even Hasso allows you to replace 10 acc and 5 str from your gear with attack+ gear, Berserk is still better (when it is active).

I think it would be interesting to replace 10 acc and 5 str with Haste/Store-TP gear if you go for DRG/SAM (I know that is not your preference )

[Vyuru]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

As Far as hate goes as DRG/WAR ya i get hate a lot but that is what High Jump and Super Jump is for. I am not a big MP sink.

Lucky, with the subpar tanks I've been dealing with these days even High Jump alone isn't enough to shed enough hate for the tank to get it back. Alot of times I can only either eat food, or use berserk, because doing both will make me the tank, and I'll still have hate issues if I just use one or the other.

I think it would be interesting to replace 10 acc and 5 str with Haste/Store-TP gear if you go for DRG/SAM

Hmm, interesting, I went to check on what +haste belts there where because I only knew about the Speed Belt, and there is a Haste Belt:

Lvl 40, Enchantment: Haste <20/20 0:30/[00:40,0:30] Leather craft lvl 46, earth crystal+light ram leather+waistbelt.

It can be pretty easy leveling a craft to lvl 50ish, so I think that this piece of gear has some real potential, especially if the Haste effect is as strong as a normal Haste spell. I also wonder how long it lasts since the reuse timer is only 40 seconds, something to look into at least ^^


Bah, nvm, I just noticed that the belt is war/pld/drk >.< So much for that idea ; ;
But the idea is filed away for when I try my Gaxe using war/sam or war/thf!

But if that is the case, the only other +haste gear options are the Blitz rings (haste+1%) Quick Belt (haste+2%) or the Speed belt (haste+6%)

I'll have to crunch the numbers later, but I don't know if it would be worth using a quick belt + blitz rings considering that there are alot of good +acc and +str rings/belts out there, even a few +att if you wanted to go that way, and the speed belt is pretty expensive.

I can never remember, the Store TP+ gear, how much extra TP does that give you? For example Store TP+1, does that give you 1% extra TP or .1%?

[Mouser]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

For a haste build at 75 at least, you can get:

Walhabra Turban (5%)
Dusk Gloves (3%)
Dusk Boots (2%)
Quick Belt (2%) or Swift Belt (4%, quested)

for +12% or +14% haste.

If you opt for one of the speedier lances, like the Ice Lance+1 or Dreizck, you can pick up the equivalent of about +3% haste (or somehow get a Triton Lance or Mezraq+1). Add in Hasso for an extra -10% delay.

I think delay reduction and Haste are considered separately, so with +12% Haste and Hasso it'd work out to about a 379 delay equivalent if you used a 478 base delay lance or 390 with a 402 base delay lance.

I did the Turban/Dusk Boots/Quick Belt for a while (+9%) but in most fights I do (Merit, Dynamis, Limbus) individual kills are fast enough that I'm not sure it's worth giving up the ATK (sushi), ACC (meat), or STR you can get in those same slots for possibly getting an extra swing or two.

[nickofearth]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

Actually I have been trying with my LS for a Swift Belt. 0/2 ;_; Once I get that, and sea so I can start getting Homan gear, I can start looking into a haste set for Dragoon(got the wally world turban but >.> Ace's Helm can I have it? XD). I see about 20ish% haste so far. Which case I would use def. use samurai as a sub for a haste setup.

[Lmnop]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

the Delay reduction of Hasso doesn't affect tp, thus it's more accurate to call it "melee haste." HQ weapons are usually a 3% delay reduction, but that is 3% less tp/hit.

Assuming unlimited access to Homam and such: 4-6% belt (I'd lean more towards Swift, though), 9% Homam, 3-5% head (homam -> Ace's -> Wala), 10% Hasso = 26-30% Haste, not to mention a shit-ton of +Acc. You'd also have enough MP to facilitate a Rune Lance (whatever it's called) for the first WS or 2 of the party >.>. If you ate Sushi with said equipment, I'd MPK you.

If you could pair this with a Heca-heavy equip swap for WS, you've been playing this game for too long (which means I love you).

[goblinpimp]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

i have more or less a balance of str atk and acc gear. i eat sushi. (elvaan) wat would you recomend i eat as far as meat at this point. i rarely miss without sushi and can rearrange gear >.> i havent lvled sam yet, ad will soon enough cause i want at least the option there, so i dunno about drg/sam other than wat ive heard and read, drg/war can be incredibaly strong and drg/thf has worked for me as well .

gear:

holy lance +1- emp pin -mermans gorget-assuault earring- tortoise+1- sniper ring- victory ring- spicked finger gauntlets- sword belt +1 - SH- raven hose- AF boots- jaguar mantle-sole sushi (atm)
(also use my AF gloves for soloing)
i have a life belt and spike necklace and winged boots and akiji pehti as well and switch them depending on need. chivalrous chain and GK lance waiting for me when i lvl. saving for amemet mantle +1 since i rarely mis even without sushi, i want to take up a outstanding meat product, and just throw in life belt if i need it. sorry its sort of all off the subject , but the food conversation got me thinking again >.< i am intersted in drg/sam for TP but am skeptical, i only really get outperformed by a great rng, and a thf once in a while ; ;

[Lmnop]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

Sis Kebabi is not only quite cheap, it's (as far as I can tell) the best meat dish for your level. Meat mithkabobs stop being most efficient mid 50s, Sis Kebabi pick up and become about the best meat possible 'til your base attack exceeds 350.

Even if you're not too keen on /sam, I suggest at least leveling it and trying it out. Options help parties out, but they help you more by increasing your worth in multiple scenarios.

If the player base can get to a point where opinion isn't lead by Alla/KI fanatics, people should soon realize that 70+ drk and drg fit well in most hate-sharing situations.

[Vyuru]

Re: Level 60+ DRG/SAM, the ultimate DD?

Huh, whenever I go to page 3 it puts me on the dark beta setting

We are the Dragoons, welcome to the dark side

What +att food would you recommend once your attack exceeds 350? I'm going to reach this stage very soon. Right now I mainly eat Yellow Curry or sushi.

And if you are going to recommend some pricey food, is there a cheaper alternative? Basically anything that is 50K+ for a single/stack I'd really have to think about before using in a party. So for instance Hedgehog Pies which cost 90k or so, are just too expensive for me to want to use them in a party situation.