Changes to DRG

[Icemage]

Re: Changes to DRG

I suspect that the change to /SAM will do Good Things for Dragoons after the update, and I think S-E feels the same way.

The change to Super Jump and Spirit Link seems really strange and out of flavor - I wasn't aware that these were really issues for Dragoons. Both changes make sense to me, but as Jei noted, they don't really address the fundamental problems with Dragoons: Can't take or evade hits well, horrible skillchain potential at higher levels, and dependence on wyverns that can get KO'd by AoE.

Personally, I've always wondered why Dragoons have such horrible Evasion skill (C-) when they ought to be one of the most acrobatic and quick jobs (behind Thief and Ninja), and they wear similarly light armor.


Icemage

[Grandsummoner_Kairos]

Re: Changes to DRG

I have seen a DRG use Super Jump to evade Soporific (AoE sleep) from Puktrap during lvl 61 exp. party in ToAU area. Only the NIN tank, the DRG and her pet stayed awake after Soporific in the party. I was very impressed.

This is why i think the shorter super jump timer is one of the most important things to come from this update for fragoon. I know we always think of super jump in terms of soloing or just losing hate, but remember that when we super jump we are impervious to all harm for about 5 seconds. If you can learn to time your super jumps well, dragoon becomes one of the most survivable jobs in the game against deadly special attacks. I have escaped all damage from meteor, astral flow, citadel buster, goblin bombs, sleepgas, ga-spells, and many slow enemy TP moves including abrasive tantara which i avoid wuite often.


With this update you can merit super jump down to being 2minutes 30 seconds recast which will make it a much more common tool for us to use.

[tdh]

Re: Changes to DRG

The Super Jump changes help /THF skillchain partners more than they help the DRG I think. Now for those uber PLDs who won't relinquish hate so we can SATA close Lv.3s, we can now close behind DRGs, and they can just shed all the hate... every 3 minutes.

So DRG/SAM, partying with a PLD, THF, and DRK can open Light and shed hate if somebody needs to close a big Light skillchain behind the DRG. Might have to snatch up a DRG friend from my LS for my static. I was thinking I'd have catch up with WAR, and switch over to open Light at Lv.66.

[eticket109]

Re: Changes to DRG

... why would that makes invite rates increase for Drg...? Their pets have stoneskin now.... so what?
While every other jobs are running forward, sounds like Drg are taking 1 step at a time. Side tracking step too...

As the job stands there is little or anything that needs to be improved. The Dragoon is one of the most versatile jobs in the game. We don't need to do any running forward, we're already there.

[Anaki]

Re: Changes to DRG

actually for the solo enm i would just use spiritsurge when my hp got low then jump and penta and usually after that ive almost won :X i never really brought items so its not too costly i think. also for empathy it seems more like based on what empathy does, allowing it to copy stoneskin is as if it was accidently forgotten to be coded in since stoneskin is a buff isn't it?

[Vyuru]

Re: Changes to DRG

The Super Jump changes help /THF skillchain partners more than they help the DRG I think. Now for those uber PLDs who won't relinquish hate so we can SATA close Lv.3s, we can now close behind DRGs, and they can just shed all the hate... every 3 minutes.

So DRG/SAM, partying with a PLD, THF, and DRK can open Light and shed hate if somebody needs to close a big Light skillchain behind the DRG. Might have to snatch up a DRG friend from my LS for my static. I was thinking I'd have catch up with WAR, and switch over to open Light at Lv.66.

Mmm, I dunno, what's stopping the SC of Shark Bite > Wheeling Thrust > Ground Strike/Spinning Slash? TA + SB onto paladin, after lvl 60 that works like SATA right? Then Wheeling thrust to close SC, then since it goes both ways you can use the Ground Strike/Spinning Slash to do another light SC.

horrible skillchain potential at higher levels

I almost never party without a thief, dark knight or samurai, so I'm rather happy with our SC placement

As the job stands there is little or anything that needs to be improved. The Dragoon is one of the most versatile jobs in the game. We don't need to do any running forward, we're already there.

Yeah, there will always be something cool and nifty that I'd like, like I'd LOVE to be able to wear the sam/nin/mnk line of gear on my dragoon (mithra in Okotes + white kenpogi thingy = hawt) , but I guess I'll just have to level samurai and grab a Couse or some other polearm if I want to have that look.

I must say I am very happy with the job as it is. I'd have to say I'm especially happy with it, it's a really fun job no ifs ands or buts about it

[Slayerxox]

Re: Changes to DRG

DRG has to possibly have one of the best skill chain properties. We can open/close Light -and- Dark with 1 weapon, Our Lances. DRKs have to use Scythe for a strong Darkness or Greatsword for Light/mediocre Dark.

I think DRG is right up there in Skillchain capabilities. As for Super Jump, I just see this as less blood tanking during Mire Merit parties as I always tend to pull hate and SUper Jump quite isnt fast enough to save me. I'm not sure but, I've never had to use it for soloing unless it was to evade Avatar 2hours ; what were you guys reffering to?

[LilithAngel]

Re: Changes to DRG

Sometimes, during soloing, Super Jump can be used to give you a few precious seconds to either find a way to take control of a situation that's getting out of hand, or to escape. This is achieved by unlocking your camera from your target and turning away from it when you land, thereby turning the mob to your wyvern becuse your enmity level is lower than it. This time can be used to either heal yourself (if you've taken damage and needed to Super Jump to give yourself a few seconds to cure up), or to find a way to escape a situation you didn't plan on (either the mob is too strong, or you got links you can't handle, or you just simply need to leave *fast*).

Super Jump, in either party or solo play, can be a life saver.

[Karinya]

Re: Changes to DRG

Anybody that can avoid damage from Citadel Buster has no cause to complain about their survivability. Wow. (As if hate-free wyvern damage and two hate-shedding abilities weren't good enough - plus Third Eye for DRG/SAM).


Anyway, I don't think DRG is weak in skillchains - they are clearly built to open, since part of their WS damage comes from the wyvern and thus doesn't count toward SC damage when they close. I've found so far (DRG34) that when I add my WS damage to wyvern's breath damage it is almost always stronger than any other WS in the party (the only thing *consistently* stronger is SATAVB). My experience with DRGs in high level parties is consistent with this.

Wheeling Thrust makes light with dragon kick, shark bite, spinning slash (even savage blade if you're with a BLU). Impulse Drive makes darkness with cross reaper, tachi:gekko, full break/steel cyclone. The only DD weapons that *can't* make a level 3 sc with polearm are katana, bow/xbow/gun and 1h axe, and with the impending renaissance of WAR/SAM as well as DRG/SAM... unless your party is all ninjas and rangers, I don't see a problem.

In any case, DRG is a DoT job like monk - it doesn't rely on huge WS damage to do huge overall damage.

[Macht]

Re: Changes to DRG

Seriously think the adjustment for DRG is just fine, may not be all that impressive. A big bonus is that the 2hr ability resets the jumps, that means in a desperate situation the DRG can attempt to pull out 6 jumps quickly (3 are now guarenteed). Along with that 3 of those jumps providing effects that can help the party survive.

6 jumps also dealing decent amount of damage that can help to kill a mob turning out to be a problem. If I recall 1 of the 2hr jumps allows them to also erase hate from a part member as well. Used properly 6 jumps in a row with 3 giving extra effects is an extreemly huge change, especially for big mob fights, or players doing something that is an intended aspect of MMOs and that is to explore and actually challenge yourself.

As for the DRG having low evasion that makes sense as well. DRG are able to completly avoid damage by a properly timed jump, as such their evasion skill is solely in their jump. As DRG then it makes sense they'd know how to effectivly avoid devestating things through their jumps, the low evasion is to encourage the DRG to avoid damage in this fashion.

It also provide a nice balancing since jump is able to completly avoid any damage or effect. Another who's benefits were once overshadowed due to Utsusemi being to strong when it could negate anything as well.

[Vyuru]

Re: Changes to DRG

I've never had to use it for soloing unless it was to evade Avatar 2hours ; what were you guys reffering to?

Every now and then a situation while soloing may go slightly dangerous, maybe i get interrupted a few too many times, maybe the mob did a double attack and both hits were criticals, just things like that, so super jumping hate onto the wyvern gives you time to get at least 2x healing breaths in before jumping back into the fray.

Oh, and if you get a link, super jump will not put that mob's attention on your wyvern, your wyvern actually has to hit it once to get some hate, then you can super jump hate from both mobs onto your wyvern, and (Run away!)

I always dismiss Lumiere before she dies, I have this thing about using her as sacrificial bait while I escape >.>

Anybody that can avoid damage from Citadel Buster has no cause to complain about their survivability

What is this "Citadel Buster" move and what mob uses it? Sounds nasty.

unless your party is all ninjas and rangers, I don't see a problem

You might want to toss in warriors, it's a very rare thing right now to find a warrior with anything BUT one handed axes skilled up for exp parties. I'm hoping this will change with the new update, c'mon Gaxe warriors!

And of course since warriors, ninjas, and rangers were/are among the most popular jobs to play as, I think that is where people got the impression that dragoon's SC placement was lousy.

Of course they'll all say that Gaxe damage was "fixed" and ignore what the other Gaxe using warriors have been saying all this time

As for the DRG having low evasion that makes sense as well. DRG are able to completly avoid damage by a properly timed jump, as such their evasion skill is solely in their jump.

Well, there's that, but I am curious to know what the other melee job's evasion is? If drk and war have Cish evasion as well, I wouldn't say that ours is so horribly low. We're dragoons! Not ninjas

Something I've always wondered about though, if TA transfers your hate from your next move to another person, can you use TA + super jump? Or SATA + super jump? (dunno if the SA would DO anything, just asking)

I recall 1 of the 2hr jumps allows them to also erase hate from a part member as well.

Spirit Surge + jump = big time def down
Spirit Surge + high jump = enemy TP reduction according to the damage you dealt.
Spirit Surge + super jump = eliminate party members hate, you either have to be standing behind them or in front of them and I can never remember which it is.


Super jumping nasty evil AoEs is about as cool and useful as a bard using the sleep songs to interrupt an opponent's spell casting IMO.

Of course yeah, you avoided damage, but now everyone else is dead and a very angry mob is waiting to rip you to pieces, but at least you avoided his AoE!

[eticket109]

Re: Changes to DRG

Citadel Buster is used by Proto-Ultima in Temenos

from FFXI Wiki

Citadel Buster: 30 second countdown, followed by extreme targeted 20'(?) AoE (Light?) damage (~900-1700), ignores Utsusemi

Spirit Surge + jump = big time def down
Spirit Surge + high jump = enemy TP reduction according to the damage you dealt.
Spirit Surge + super jump = eliminate party members hate, you either have to be standing behind them or in front of them and I can never remember which it is.

SS + HJ will also stun the mob

for SS + SJ in addition to losing all hate on you, 50% of the hate will be lost for anyone behind you when the jump is performed.

[Lmnop]

Re: Changes to DRG

I'm hoping this will change with the new update, c'mon Gaxe warriors!

...

Of course they'll all say that Gaxe damage was "fixed" and ignore what the other Gaxe using warriors have been saying all this time

Thank you. I was under the impression that the only people who didn't think dual axes were the "only way" were a select few bitter Warriors like myself. Nice to know someone out there would let me use a Great axe.

[Macht]

Re: Changes to DRG

Of course yeah, you avoided damage, but now everyone else is dead and a very angry mob is waiting to rip you to pieces, but at least you avoided his AoE!

Now that's just rediculous, DRGs aren't the healers if the parties dead from that and just you alive. How is having better evasion going to be of any benefit there? What you want THF's "Perfect Dodge" 2hr as a permanent ability on you? It's sounding a bit rediculous now.

To add to this if you jump avoid an AoE and party is alive you are now 1 less member the healers have to worry about and have effectively conserved their MP.

[Drive]

Re: Changes to DRG

I always wondered how can ninja's where more defensive armor then a dragoon and still have good evasion. There are some exceptions but it is still strange.