/Thf vs. /War

[Skoal]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

What was your party set up? Another thing, Sev metnioned double attack. I think you may see /war out class thf when you get to 50. If you want to get higher Double Thrusts, ditch that dex ring and get a str. It may not be much but hey every little bit helps.

[Kravex]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Yes, as in my OP I've played Drg to 70, i know /War is the only option 50-59, and still comes out ahead 59+.

Altho if you ever want to do HNMs, you'd better have Thf lvl'd.

EDIT: My old Penta record was 14XX, SA Jump for 600+. Wish I had my old Screen shots, seems to remember an 800 jump and 1700 SATA Wheeling but maybe i'm going crazy

[Sevv]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

LOL th1 dont you camp hnms with friends/ls u bring the 75thf with thief dagger on hnms.. oh and ya double attack is too much tp to throw away im going to get a lvl on my thf and compare the raw stats at 70 unless one of you want to do it and i also am going to pt with a hume 70drg/thf tonight and parse it if he gets on for once .

and drg/war penta stats

on it -> 1644 (lvl 60)
on ep-> 2243 (lvl 69 kinda had my jaw drop)
for fun last night on boreal hound-> 3241, ( the 67drg/thf did 2740, 60 drg/war did 2883, 75drk/thf 4279)

but basically any time tells u to change sub simple {/slap}

lol just read the end of u post drg/thf on wheeling can be devstating ie why i have thf lvled. also dun compare the drg #s lvl diff and different gear all had sh i had shh and barone corz)

[Skoal]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Sorry I didn't see where you took your Drg to the 70's.

[Kravex]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Most HNMs melee hit for squat, many 0s and afew 1s, /Thf for Wheeling since it's Ignore Target Def. you can pull off 600-800Damage.

Using War you get Double attacks for multiple 0s.

Thusly, most LSs I've seen/spoken with require Drgs to use /Thf.

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Assuming we generated TP at the same rate.

8hits x 13tp per = 104tp

Giving /War the benifit of 15 damage more then me per hit. (Bers is only 3/5 of the time.)

15damage x 8hits = 120damage more between each WS.

/War 115(average WS) + 120(damage done between WSs) = 235
/Thf 225(Average WS)

235 vs 225

I got Black Listed for 10 points of damage? ( I think I found a Sig :D)

And this is a misconceived idea that a bunch of DDs figure with /THF...

SATA will make your WS uber, and you'll be hitting a mob for 1500+ damage!!!
I'd like to call this phenomena "Big Number Syndrome". On MMOs, most people have it, thinking that the bigger the number, the better the end result.

In FFXI, at lv 60, you would assume that many would recognize that this is simply not the case. If it were:

...every EXP kill should be 200+EXP. Regardless of the fact that it'll take us 10 minutes to kill a monster, The fact that we're chaining EXP mobs for 180 a pop in less than 30 seconds is just unacceptable.
...Gil is only made through camping an NM for 1.5million drop that only drops 5% of the time. Who cares about those meager items that sell fast for very few gil?
...DoT is unimportant as long as we're spamming large numbers every minute.

/Sarcasm off.

All of my DDs sub either /MNK or /WAR. Not only will you gain TP at a faster rate, your DoT will certainly help the PT in the long run. Nothing has irked me more than when a /THF would use SA and only hit for a critical of 80DMG that round. In honesty, it all comes down to preference when you think about it; while the SATA WS is very nice and flashy, you could have it setup to where you're WSing twice in a fight so that BLM and MB. My advice would be: Leave the hate control to the THF if you can. If not, /THF comes in handy at level 60.

But do know that when you sub THF, you get no damage modifier for SA or TA. No doubt the damage is uber, but at what cost?

Whenever you TA on someone else, you get no bonus in damage; You just transfer hate to the person you TAed, which causes slight disruption in Hate Control. You lose a great deal of STR (Of which many of your WS's are based upon anyhow), and your TP gain rate is slowed, while your DoT rate is lowered due to the substitution of SATA for Double Attack.

It's not like /WAR is going to outparse /THF's WS, but DoT wise, /WAR is much better with DoT and TP build.

People have /THF their way through plenty of things. I honestly think it's slightly overrated...or maybe I'm just pondering, as Main THF, why a /THF would get a quicker invite than a THF. But that's a totally different topic.

I dunno. If you're a DD, why waste the DoT for a huge burst of damage each minute?
That's just me tho.

[Kravex]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

You did read the whole thread right? We all know /War is higher DOT.

The debate was mearly Why someone would Black List a person because he'd rather do Burst Damage.

I still hold to /War and /Thf pulling out the same over all DOT if geared properly, waiting to disprove it.

I'm currently leveling War, I knew from the start at 50 I need to sub it.

I'm not totally sure what point your trying to make tho. I for one am quite aware of how DOT works, and the inner workings of SATA.

[Sevv]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

LOL thats all i have to say

Eaujikuu readies post...
Kravex counters thread post
Eaujikuu was Defeated by Kravex
Eaujikuu falls out Drg Forums

[Eauijhkuu]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

I'm sorry. I guess I confused you all a great deal. I'll try to clarify it as much as I can

I guess what I'm trying to state is /THF .vs /WAR:

When it comes down to a party situation, as evidenced.Leader felt as though /THF handicapped the party's overall performance. Judging, Leader reserves all insanely inspired right to /kick members that they feel aren't benefitting their party.

This, as I meant to clarify within previous post, is a (harshly extreme) reason to /kick and /blacklist, by weighing the pros and cons and slightly opinionated perspective of /WAR vs /THF.

It wasn't to re-instate your previous knowledge of DoT rates.

Cryptically.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Adding to Eauijhkuu's post.. - as I stated way back in this thread - the moral of the story is:

"If the party asks you to /War and you say no - odds are you won't get that invite of shinyness you were previously hoping for."

If you are willing to say: "Yeah! I can /War, but hey - my DoT's fairly strong and /Thf would let me do.... x, y or z, would you consider this?" and they say "No.. we need the 'voke..."

/War it is. Exp it is. Party it is.

Flexibility in subs and getting parties > complaining on forums about not getting a party.

For my Thf, I can sub War, Nin, Drg, and Rng - and I still have problems getting parties at times.

- Saeriel.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Kinda off the main point but...

If ever you find yourself closing an SC with Wheeling Thrust, that's a good time to sub thf in an exp PT for the bigger renkei damage. It might seem rare, but I've put together 3 step SC parties at 65~ when we couldn't find a blm. We'd do something like: Yukikaze > Sidewinder > Wheeling Thrust for light, and completely destroy flies in boyahda tree =) Unresisted 3-step lvl 3 chain renkei damage results in 150% of the closer's WS dmg.

Everyone needs to have good TP timing and balance though, so you don't have someone wasting TP waiting for the others to catch up. With this setup, it was basically blow away 1 mob with the SC, TP up and let the sam solo WS or possibly SC with the tank on the next.

[Kailea]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

yeah THF is good and so is DRK SAM RDM WHM BLU

I generaly do it this way, if the PT I am invited to needs another voke, I sub WAR, but if they dont I sub something else depending on what PT needs

no THF /THF
one healer /WHM or RDM (depending on what healer is)
2DDs /DRK or SAM (only have SAM at 25 -.- )
/BLU us still under testing :p so I cant say much yet......

and I also bring....
2x X Potion
12x Hi Potion Drop
2x Hi ether (if I am subing mage)
4x Yagudo drink (if I am subing mage)
12x antidote
12x Eye drop
12x echo drop (if I am subing mage)
.......just incase something bad happens and I need to realy stay alive :p

[Spinnthrift]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Couple of questions about /Drk...

When using /Drk, do you maximise your HP's to net the best results out of Soul Eater. If so, do you find the trade off in Accuracy/Attack by using HP plus gear to net greater damage during the duration of SE enough? Also - how do your healers feel about you using them as a nuke battery? (Many Whm's hate the use of Spirit Link, how do you reason them with Soul Eater as well?) Or do you use it only for WS's for that BIG NUMBER effect? Or do you leave your gear as standard and have a less potent SE effect?

Is the limited duration of Last Resort compared to the lengthier duration of Berserk, with a higher emnity cost than Berserk has an acceptable trade off?

Is the trade off of the second Attack Up bonus worth the loss of Double Attack? Since Attack Up I from /Drk doesn't stack with Attack Up I from Drg at 10.

I'm not saying it doesn't/can't work... just curious as to how someone plays it to best effect.

- Sae.

[Kailea]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Couple of questions about /Drk...

When using /Drk, do you maximise your HP's to net the best results out of Soul Eater. If so, do you find the trade off in Accuracy/Attack by using HP plus gear to net greater damage during the duration of SE enough? Also - how do your healers feel about you using them as a nuke battery? (Many Whm's hate the use of Spirit Link, how do you reason them with Soul Eater as well?) Or do you use it only for WS's for that BIG NUMBER effect? Or do you leave your gear as standard and have a less potent SE effect?

Is the limited duration of Last Resort compared to the lengthier duration of Berserk, with a higher emnity cost than Berserk has an acceptable trade off?

Is the trade off of the second Attack Up bonus worth the loss of Double Attack? Since Attack Up I from /Drk doesn't stack with Attack Up I from Drg at 10.

I'm not saying it doesn't/can't work... just curious as to how someone plays it to best effect.

- Sae.

well I dont worry about HP+ gear, I just go with my normal ACC/STR gear

Last Resort is infact alittle weaker then Berserk, but haveing Soul eater more then makes up for it

and double attack does not kick in enuff to be worth anything (to me anyway)

at level 64 my base STR is 61 with both /WAR and /DRK but with /DRK I have an extra 20 attack and berserk and last resort are in basics the same thing, and you trade defender for souleater

and you dont use the /DRK spells at all, unless you are useing poison to activate healing breath

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Re: /Thf vs. /War

Imo, /Drk is a conditional subjob that isn't really suited to exp PT, but that's another discussion I guess.

But yeah, since souleater is gimped as /drk and you only gain 5% of your HP in dmg, it isn't really worth it to gear for HP. +80 HP would mean that you would boost your souleater hits by 4 dmg =/

Last Resort isn't nearly as strong as Berserk. I think it's a 15% atk boost that lasts 30 secs? I also think it generates more hate than Berserk. It's almost not worth the hate it generates, unless you have a rock solid pld tank.

The extra level of Attack Boost (at drk lvl 30) gives me an extra 12 atk. Double Attack kicks in roughly 10% of the time.

I think Drg/Drk is really only advantageous for Stun. It's pretty nifty too, in combination with Healing Breath. Tank gets knocked below 1/3 HP, you hit Stun, stunning the mob and healing the tank at the same time.