The Brakki Dragoon Guide

[Lmnop]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

what the...

Stop this conversation now. This is retarded. +1 attack is nothing. Elitist pricks, go away (coming from someone who owns a haubergeon, assault earring, etc., I say you don't need every bit of +stat gear this game has to offer).

As for the guide, the one thing I did see is that you have assault earring listed as level 52 (it's like 58 or something... I know i put it on after Spike earring). Also, I think AJ is better in exp than SH from watching my friend use both, but I guess that's an opinion and up for debate.

About drg/drk. It'll probably never outparse drg/war in a party. However, it's pretty good for solo and really shines in small groups. It's helpful because it allows almost WAR-like damage output paired with the ability to keep yourself alive to save mp. trioing an IT tree in aht urgan comes to mind...

[Spinnthrift]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Ok Lmnop. We were trying to be civilised and explain...

No - we're not saying "YOU MUST GET THIS OR BE GIMPED!!!1!ELEVENDY!!1!"

Please highlight where anyone who has said - this is the ideal piece to get - has said this, or even paraphrased it.

I will re-iterate for you something. I like Drg/healer. I use Drg/Whm and Drg/Rdm for many things, including missions, BCNM's and specialist parties. When I am invited to be a damage dealer for a pickup party - I'm going to try and do the best job I can do - now, if given a choice between 600k for a Walkure and 700k for a Valkryie - knowing that...

a: I can use the Valkrie Mask for solo'ing and for that purpose it's hugely superior to the Walkure.

and...

b: It's a better piece of gear party wise than Walkure - because of pure terms of attack (and 1 point of attack isn't a lot - we all agree on this, however - as I've said before, and will say again so you can read it again... It all adds up.) makes me do the job I've been invited for...

Which am I going to pick to use?

The second rate item, because people who say that I need HP in a party say so, or the item which is the best to use?

So - before telling us to stop this conversation right now - as I'm sure you've got some great gear - and having great gear makes you eminently qualified to tell others to stop talking...

Let me spell it out for you.

One item, marginally more expensive than the other. Vastly preferred for solo'ist Dragoons and marginally better for parties. Second item, meh for solo'ist Dragoons (and some Drg can solo a lot) and not as good an item for a DD position in a party). One is clearly a better choice. We've tried explaining it in terms of:

Greater Attack Bonus > Lesser Attack Bonus.
MP Bonus vs HP Bonus = moot point for a party slot.

So why defend people who persist in arguing these simple facts?

- in regards to Duo's/Trio's/Nonstandard formation parties, we're not arguing the toss on Drg's versatility. We're saying - when you get a slot in a pickup party - this is what is ideal as a damage dealer. This is what will get you further invites. And hopefully not break up too many linkshells in the process.

Or - we can say:

"Go do what you want to do, as you're probably already going to anyways. Just one more person we know now to avoid inviting to take up that slot in a party, as the Drk/Mnk/Rng/Thf/War/Blm/Sam/Blu/Blm/Smn - will be more than prepared to function as a damage dealer."

I don't have a Valk yet to be honest. I do have a Walkure (as I can use it on Thf + Nin). If I had the funds spare to buy a Valk for Drg. I probably would. But - right now.. I don't.

However...

If I was main job'bing Drg instead of three other jobs on the bounce - you bet I'd take that up in a pinch. For now - I'll use the "next best thing", and accept that it isn't as good.

- Saeriel.

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

I do agree, HP+ gear is not worth it when I can wear ATT or STR gear, I was just saying that to what Brakki said...infact now that I think about it...who was he saying that too...noone said anything about HP+ gear......
and trust me I use subjobs for the proper times, like I list all my subs in my search comment and I do it like this....

WAR if another voke is needed
THF for when I dont need voke
DRK when no voke is needed and I want to play it diffrent
WHM when just a little extra backup is needed
RDM for same as abouve but no RDM in PT (for disspel)
BLU well....lol still testing -.- mainly for solo right now I guess

and all this is overruled if I am asked to sub something particular in my invte

[Brakki]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Only plausible use for /DRK is Stun. Honestly. There's a reason no one subs DRK except for RDMs in endgame. There's also a reason SAMs, THFs, WARs, DRKs, RNGs, etc don't sub WHM in EXP. People invite you to attack full on and/or skillchain. You're not making TP effectively with WHM. You're not skillchaining effectively with WHM. WHM sub is for solo and mission/BCNM/endgame.

Regarding being an elitist: You make it sound as if that's a bad thing. Maybe you're not a competitive person. That's cool. But this is a competitive game. If you don't want to function at your highest level of performance, how many people are going to want to play with you? It's your 12.99, but consider the rest of the party's 64.95. You want to get in a good endgame linkshell? Think they're going to want to bring in someone who doesn't want to be the best? Sure, just about anyone can join that startup shell who shouts in Jeuno to build a member base, but how often do those last over a month before they realize they can't do crap but lose claim at Roc?

Regarding Walkure vs Valkyrie's mask. How many soloers do you see that focus on HP+ gear? Just about non. They realize something based on their job: Ninjas and Thieves should focus on Evasion so they don't get hit. Black Mages and Red Mages should focus on MP so they can cast the spells that keep them alive and the monster down. Your evasion skill sucks compared to a Thief and you don't have shadows as /mage. What does that leave you with? A minimal benefit of healing breath activating earlier, or using healing breath two times more before resting. Here's a hint: 300 HP is greater than 15 HP. Which do you think is honestly going to help you more?

Summary: Play Dragoon how you want to. But when the way you play is gimp, don't get upset when someone tells you that another way is better.

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

lol being elitist is bad...... and I am sorry but the way I play DRG is not "Gimp" I have never once had anyone complain about the way I play, and I have played DRG this way for ever. I am sorry I would rather be well rounded, then be all out damage and then when PT needs saveing I cant do crap because I cant do anything but attack. I am not gimping myself, I am leaveing more options for PT setup. Being elitist is a horable way to play anygame, it takes the fun out of it.

Your way is ok, and so is mine, but you dont see me calling your ways "gimp" just because I dont like playing that way... even though some of your opinions on DRG are abit silly....

by the way what level are you at with DRG anyway?

[Brakki]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Been 75 for awhile now.

[Stockyboy]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Sometimes being elitest is good..makes you realise who truely has the output you need for a party and people who can't cut it, I admit i'm a bit like this, whenever I see other Drks around in their feral jerkins and AF for battle it makes me want to slap them, even more so when they're wearing Dex rings.
Anyway...back to the point;

There is no certain way to play one job..as was said, Drg is amazingly versatile, but at level 20 onwards Whms shouldn't need backup healers full stop, if they can't do it themselves then they need to go and think why. For party use I would really only reccomend War and Thf subs, maybe Sam, but more often than not the extra damage from WSs won't make up for the amazing DoT Drgs are known for.

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

I am not saying the WHM will NEED the healing help, I am just saying if there is only one healer in the PT, I would rather haveing alittle backup for safty, nothing wrong in wanting that -.-

[Stockyboy]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

When your gimping your damage, and not placing trust in your healer, problems can arise. If you can kill a mob quicker as to not need the extra healing, everyone is better off.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

So - basically Kailea... let me get this straight. You need there to be two healers - before you'll be prepared to act like a DD? Because you're not instilling me with confidence here in your abilities as a Drg/Whm.

Going on what Stocky said - if I'm Whm in a party - and the Dragoon says - I'm not subbing War unless we get another Whm or backup healer because they "don't feel very safe".. I'd personally be insulted. Now - contrary to popular belief - I don't believe insulting people is the 'right' thing to do - buuuuut... even less so when you're as interchangable as any other DD.

- Saeriel.

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

look, I am not saying that at all, and never have said that to anyone that has invited me -.- ......

lets say the setup is..
PLD/WAR
WAR/NIN*
WHM/BLM
THF/RNG
RNG/THF
then I would sub RDM (as long as they did not mind and most dont)

but if setup was.....
PLD/WAR
SAM/THF*
WHM/BLM
THF/RNG
RNG/THF
then I would sub WAR because another voke might be needed durring battle

Everyone is seeing how a party SHOULD act and I am seeing how a party MIGHT act, I cover all my bases, and I have always done well

[Spinnthrift]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

With Thf/Rng and Rng/Thf - your bases are very covered.

Here's the honest truth. I don't much like Brakki as a person. I find him to leave a bad aftertaste in the mouth.

However - his guide is an honest and truthful one - albeit a little outdated with the release of ToAU.

Secondly - I've found in my experience - it's very rare for people to outright call someone gimped or worthless. They will however talk privately and in their LS about it. The words: "Make mental note to not invite that person again" spring to mind here.

Thirdly - your party build where you say - OK to voke is an unrealistic party. You don't need two SATA partners. Where is the Blm for the MB that you're trying to create? There is no balance or purpose in either party. You're highlighting a deficiency in understanding of building working exp setups - let alone an understanding of maximising a jobs potential.

I'll explain further. You have two pullers in each party. So - one wasted slot either way. You have two hate transferrer's/controllers in one party - again, wasted slots. Just too much redundancy all round.

If you compound this by adding in a Dragoon - you've further made yourself and the DD's in the party redundant. In the first setup - you have Rampage to Dancing Edge = Detonation - will make light work of Earth based mobs. You also have: Sidewinder > Rampage = Distortion - another favourite. or you can go... Sidewinder > Dancing Edge for Distortion. There is no need for another DD in this party. There's need for a Blm though. I can do the same with the second party too - but... you can see the point I'm aiming at here...

And let's not even go into post 65. Because the problems I've highlighted already compound further.

You've put together the basics of a standard Exp party, but left out key ingredients to the mix. If you really *had* to have a Dragoon in either of these parties which have no direction or focus - I'd suggest (hesitantly - as I know the repercussions of posting bad advice for situational setups) /Brd. Why? You'd have Ballad for the Pld/Whm and a mediocre Madrigal for an already failing setup and pray they don't mind chaining T/VT. If I were being truly honest - I'd drop the Dragoon. There's nothing they add to an already poorly built party.

I can see very clearly how this party *might* act. Personally - I'd cut my losses and go solo. I'd exp better and probably have more fun - in any of the roles. What you've built there is a classic recipe to make people feel useless.

I am all for Drg/Whm mainhealing an unconventional party. I've done it and loved it. I am all for different subjobs and breaking the 'norm'. But - when breaking the mold comes at the expense of five other people - for pride on a forum... something should really be giving - and that 'something' shouldn't be more bad advice. ^^

- Saeriel

[Stockyboy]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Through and through few more words are needed, except these;

Saeriel/Spinnthrift wins the thread.

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

why are you even breaking down the example PTs...they are EXAMPLES...you are right they have the basic PT elements, because they where ment as examples. I made them up in like 2 seconds......they where not ment to be real PTs...god, and I dont think a DRG/WHM should ever main heal, I have never wanted DRG to be that, I said backup, that is in no way a main healer, backup does not mean secondary healer (like RDM or SMN) neather, it is a backup, as in if needed.

and Stockboy.....stop trying to side with someone just because they are against me, you did that with Prrsha in Mithra Pride and it got really anoying....you are not even contribluting to the conversation, just pointing and saying "they win" and I can see by your LS that you are still with that jerkoff.....so buzz off

This has nothign to do with "pride" it has to do with slaping down close minded ideals....

subs for DRG...
WAR
THF
DRK
SAM
WM
RDM
BLU (still testing of course)

all have their purpase, and all work well should be up to the DRG and the PTset to choose a sub, not some stupid, outdated, misinformed guide

[Stockyboy]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Aha, but that is the thing. You must put aside the deal with mithra pride..that is done now. When taking all facts into consideration, people have their own point of view about who is right and in this case, who has a more efficient idea.

You can see that actually I have contributed to this thread..even though i'm not a Drg and have no duty to.

PS: The only reason it gets annoying is because that's who I am, fun to hate aren't I?