The Brakki Dragoon Guide

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

I understand what you are getting at :p but I am trying to make evened out setups that dont require equipment swaping, (execept for AF helem and feet) yeah you hit for alittle less and your WS dont hit for as much but its alot better all around and it is well evened out damage and accuracy wise, we are not big DDs, we are DoT so I made a gear setup for just that purpase

[Slip]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

As for the Walkure/Valkyrie question, +HP is not something a Dragoon should even be considering let alone at the expense of attack.

For xp parties? Sure I might buy that. For soloing though? That seems way off. Any +HP will raise the Healing Breath trigger point which can only be a good thing. Also since your not fighting ITs (usually) soloing the need for a lot of +Acc or +Att is diminished (it's still nice to have just not quite as essential as when your fighting mobs thast have 12 levels on you).

[Skoal]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

My setup for normal swings and ws gives me +41 att and +39 acc. I have +10 from gear meat or sushi (5 from gear 5 from either food). When I has hitting too often and kept getting hate and waiting till 200 or so tp to chain, I started using meat. Tank was doing a fine job but we were fighting birds so I had an advantage. But anyway, my weapon skills suffered some due to the fact that all 3 hits on skewer would not land. When super jump was up, I would Skewer, Jump, High Jump, hit once and get hit once then super jump. This would all go off before the skillchain was done. I would have around 40~tp when I landed.

I have a point here lol. And its that on these birds in the bay, if I wanted to go all out I had to make sure Super Jump was up. I think with my set up, I have done what Kailea wants to do.

Here is the best part. The war wanted me to use Vorpal Thrust when she switched to GA. My party asked if VP was any good, and I said nope. Both times I tried to chain with it, it missed.

Double Post Edited:
A bit of advice that I happen to stumble upon. Last night I had a JP party who wouldnt use auto translate. I tried to get them to set up SATA for nin but everytime I would voke at start of fight, the MNK/THF and Nin would just stand there all lined up. Parrying went up from 120-123 last night. I am glad I had my carapace gear and bibiki seashell to help out with def and VIT. If you know you are going to be a trick partner, bring some def stuff just incase the people you are with suck or cant understand you.

[Taodyn]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

For xp parties? Sure I might buy that. For soloing though? That seems way off. Any +HP will raise the Healing Breath trigger point which can only be a good thing. Also since your not fighting ITs (usually) soloing the need for a lot of +Acc or +Att is diminished (it's still nice to have just not quite as essential as when your fighting mobs thast have 12 levels on you).

That +15 HP cannot even come close to comparing to the extra healing breath provided by +10 MP. If you sub RDM and use Poison as a trigger, you just got two extra Cure IIIs for +10 MP.

Which do you think would be more helpful when soloing:

a) 15 HP
b) two Cure IIIs?

And, the amount that +15 HP raises the Healing Breath trigger is negligible. As HB triggers at 33%, you only raised the trigger by 5 HP.

Plus, you get extra ATT to help you solo those monsters no matter what their level is.

The Walkure Mask is a poor man's Valkyrie's Mask. There's no way around it.

The only factor that should make you choose a Walkure is if you absolutely cannot afford a Valkyrie's Mask.

[Balodoth]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Relax, Taodyn. Slip is right. As with the majority of decent gear in this game, its value is situational. What if I'm subbing BRD or NIN and have no MP but trigger my heal breath in another manner? What if I'm subbing WAR or THF and usually end up grabbing hate for a while in parties? What if, whatever my sub, the tank dies and I need to live as long as possible while the WHM is taking a knee or the BLM is casting escape? I think it all these situations, HP would be more beneficial to the DRG than MP.

Remember we are ultimately arguing over 1 ATK. The difference is negligible. The boost to HP is as unimpressive as to MP. Sometimes one is better, and sometimes the other. Personally, I don't consider it worth posting three times.

[Djonma]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Tao, I hadn't really thought of it like that.

The thing is; +HP stacks, and although 15 seems little, it's stacked with my RSE, and adds up to quite a lot.
That's the way I was thinking about it, as that's the way I've been forced to think about +mp gear for maging (5mp from an earring? What's the point in that?)

I guess I'll save up for the Valkyrie then, not that it makes a difference right now, I can't afford either, so I'm not partying drg.

[Taodyn]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Relax, Taodyn. Slip is right. As with the majority of decent gear in this game, its value is situational. What if I'm subbing BRD or NIN and have no MP but trigger my heal breath in another manner? What if I'm subbing WAR or THF and usually end up grabbing hate for a while in parties? What if, whatever my sub, the tank dies and I need to live as long as possible while the WHM is taking a knee or the BLM is casting escape? I think it all these situations, HP would be more beneficial to the DRG than MP.

Remember we are ultimately arguing over 1 ATK. The difference is negligible. The boost to HP is as unimpressive as to MP. Sometimes one is better, and sometimes the other. Personally, I don't consider it worth posting three times.

a) I've never been anything but relaxed.

b) the point of this thread is to discuss things that a new dragoon should know.

The main word there is discuss.

People are throwing out ideas and we are all making points to possibly come to some consensus.

I realize +1 ATK is not [b]that[b] big a deal, but that was not the point being made. Someone said that the Walkure is better which is open for debate.

[Slip]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Actually what I was pointing out wasn't the Valkryie/Walkure question but rather the assertion that +HP was something a Dragoon should *never* consider. Walkure may be inferior to Valkryie (though only marginally it looks like) but +HP in general *is* something that Dragoons can keep an eye out for. Load up on enough of it and you could pop your HB trigger up by around a 100 or more later on which is very significant.

[Taodyn]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Good point. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

+HP is a good stat to boost, but only if you can do so without sacrificing the major dragoon stats (ie. ACC, STR, ATT, DEX).

If, however, you can raise your total HP while maintaining those stats, then that is definitely the way to go, especially for soloing.

[Brakki]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

My gear advice is directed towards partying.

1. You're not an end-game PLD. You don't need HP.
2. Why are you subbing WHM in an EXP party?

[DakAttack]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

Personally, Atk gear and Acc food worked perfectly for me. I could see it going either way, but Acc gear is so much more expensive. You could make the arguement that in the long run you'll be saving money, but in the long run most people make their money in short bursts, thus the Acc food is much more attainable.

ArsBrakki would have us farm for months on end to afford the best equipment, and enjoy none of the game. If only you guys could have seen some of the posts he made, all three of them (Ars, Clicky, Brakki) flip flopped back and forth on their viewswhen pressured. Dragoon is such an easy job, you don't need some sort of self serving guy to tell you how to play it.

[Kailea]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

My gear advice is directed towards partying.

1. You're not an end-game PLD. You don't need HP.
2. Why are you subbing WHM in an EXP party?

uummm lets seeeeee, HP is good nomatter what job you are
and /WHM has proven its worth in EXP PTs already, there are plenty of jobs DRG can sub now.....
WAR THF DRK WHM RDM BLU (still testing BLU)

(benefits are not being listed as traits or abilities)
WAR=Provoke and a power boost
THF= gives SATA and an evasion/accuracy boost
DRK= larger power boost then WAR but no voke and you can heal yourself with Wyvern

WHM= backup healer and still a nice DD oh and Wyvern heal
RDM= back healer with dispel and enspells... still a nice DD and Wyvern heal again
BLU= .....well....like I said still testing this one :p but it is fun to sub oh and Wyvern heal

When changeing subs your base ATT hardly changes at all, and your STR will down or up alittle but not enuff to freak out about. The only thing that changes when you change your sub are your abilities.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

uummm lets seeeeee, HP is good nomatter what job you are
and /WHM has proven its worth in EXP PTs already, there are plenty of jobs DRG can sub now.....
WAR THF DRK WHM RDM BLU (still testing BLU)

(benefits are not being listed as traits or abilities) - let's be honest now
WAR= Increased DoT, TP gain and damage output from Wyvern via Breath
THF= Hate control when closing skillchains, Wyvern Breath
DRK= larger short term gains of DoT over /War + Multipurpose Wyvern. Additional Stunner.
SAM= Fastest TP gain per hit landed.

WHM= backup healer and still a nice DD oh and Wyvern heal
RDM= back healer with dispel and enspells... still a nice DD and Wyvern heal again
BLU= .....well....like I said still testing this one :p but it is fun to sub oh and Wyvern heal

When changeing subs your base ATT hardly changes at all, and your STR will down or up alittle but not enuff to freak out about. The only thing that changes when you change your sub are your abilities.

"HP is good no matter what job you are." - not at the expense of Accuracy, Strength or Attack. Nor Dex either - not that I consider Dex to be a stat that Dragoon needs vast deals of.

"/WHM has proven its worth in EXP PTs already" - yes, it has - however.. and this is the BIG however... most tanks aren't comfortable being below 50% and even less like being below 33%. /Whm is a far more efficient healer than Whm MP for MP, but... to make it work - you sacrifice either Double Attack or SATA for that trade off - and very few tanks like being where you put them. Especially with some of the hard hitting moves later on. So it's a trade off, that many people don't like being.

Now... I realise that it makes a great case for a backup healer. Except - if the party formation is fairly solid for a pickup, you should already have a healer + support. Either Rdm/Whm or Rdm/Brd or Rdm/Cor or Whm/Cor or Whm/Smn or Rdm/Smn - even some Blm's - make the position redundant if people are doing their jobs. Also - when you do take this role, you need to heal to regain MP. Which loses you TP. As a damage dealer that's not a good thing. Now - yes... you can get MP regen, from Rdm/Brd/Cor to speed up the process, but if both are there - you're weakening your own offensive output as the party would be balanced already without you as /healer.

Now - this is all turned around when doing something like a 4 Thf/Nin, Brd/Whm, Drg/Whm party, or a Nin/xxx + 3x /Nin + Brd + Drg/Whm party, but as these are not what you would classify as common exp setups (while efficient they may be, they require a level of trust and teamwork beyond what is found in a normal Exp Party) - if a team is doing their job properly, /Whm becomes a moot one. And I like /healer, I played it a lot - but if I was in a team that functioned correctly, there was no need for me to be a third wheel - they wanted me as fully functioning Damage Dealer.

And for certain - your base stats may only go down or up by a tiny amount (comparatively), however - it all adds up over time. Each hit - that's not at it's potential, each missed swing adds up. And a single point of stat will impact to that over the hours/days/weeks that we play our characters. Not a lot... granted, but it will add up. And yes - I know.. I'm playing a Taru Drg, and making it harder on myself to perform.

What does make a huge difference is your subjob choice and how you perform with it. If the situation doesn't require an unsual sub, and it doesn't bring anything more to the table in terms of a damage dealer (which is what Dragoon is) - but weakens it's potential, then all that's happened is the player has weakened the party. And yes - potentially falling into the commonplace trap of exp/hour = only route. It's something I don't like either, being a big fan of /healer myself. But... when it comes down to getting pickup invites - little things count a lot.

I do not deny the versatility of Dragoon, nor do I deny the potential for it's uses when subbing other jobs. However - Brakki's Guide is written for partying. Exp'ing. Going out there - and being a DD. While I don't always like what he says, he's pretty much telling the truth from the perspective of someone looking to level up and do a decent job at it. No - his guide doesn't cover Drg's role in CoP, nor many BCNM's, nor other things that this job is oft overlooked as. It does do an honest job of telling you how to be a half decent DD. Just straight up, straight down - damage dealer. Which is where we're categorised in this world of Exp/Hr. Sad... but unfortunately true.

- Saeriel.

[Stockyboy]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

I have to agree with Spinnthrift, he does make a rather convincing argument, especially on the front about Acc/Atk over HP, your tank should be the one with HP items, and the one protecting you when you rock over the edge.

Drg is a special class, as in it is especially multi-functional in both a party and solo role.

Party: War Thf and Sam subs I can see, not sure about Drk sub, but I haven't seen it in action.

Solo: Whm and Blm - Blm only because you have mild enfeebling power, and more MP to use than Rdm.

When changeing subs your base ATT hardly changes at all, and your STR will down or up alittle but not enuff to freak out about. The only thing that changes when you change your sub are your abilities.

I would have to disagree with you here, when you get to 75 and change subs, your Atk changes by quite a fair margin, be you subbing Thf, War, Drk, Whm, whatever. Because of certain subjob job traits that add attack, your subjob can greatly impact your DoT (We also must not forget job abilities, such as berserk and Sneak attack, but these are never set damage increasers like job traits are, so I leave them out of my post)

[Taodyn]

Re: The Brakki Dragoon Guide

There is no +HP gear that can outweigh the value of even a single extra STR or ATT to a Dragoon. There is no comparison.

A Dragoon needs to maximize ACC, STR, ATT, and DEX before all other stats. If you do not, you are not being the best you could be.

Does it suck? Yeah.

Some of this gear is very expensive and very hard to get.

Is that an excuse? No.

You can kid yourself all you want, but you can't kid the game. Your damage output is based on hard math and you need to maximize stats that are appropriate for your job.

+HP is good, but only as long as you are not sacrificing other important stats.

Losing 1 ATT for +15 HP is not worth it.