Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

[Balodoth]

By now everybody knows S-E intends on providing some sort of change for every job--from bigger changes for WHM and PLD to smaller changes for NIN and BLM. And by now everybody knows the DRG update is being delayed pending observation of the effect of the recent change.

I don't know about you, but with DRG finally getting a long-awaited boost that was so severely needed, I'm not fond of the idea of them improving every job but ours. That would leave us in relatively the same position we were before. Since S-E was so eagerly accepting suggestions at the fan festival, I propose we put some of our ideas out there so S-E knows which direction players want to take with their job, and so they know we aren't about to forget they promised.

Just don't forget, the changes S-E have unveiled or alluded to aren't sweeping changes. So try to keep your ideas modest. I have an idea for a level 60 ability that I will post once I figure out the balance and details.

[Brayden]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

I dont really feel the need for a boost in abilities. A wider range of weaponry and armor use would be nice. There isnt much in the way of selection of end game polearms. Not to mention our high lvl JSE is rubbish

[Balodoth]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

Well, one would hope that gear selection is a self-addressing problem as the series progresses. I can agree though that gear selection is one of DRG's shortcomings. I'm just hoping for a boost to the job apart from gear because. . . well, gear requires gil or time and effort to acquire. If other players are going to benefit for the sole fact that they play that job, then I hope DRG would receive the same attention. Here's something I was thinking of, and I sincerely hope somebody is recording this to report to the game designers behind this game.

I was considering a level 60 ability that boosts the DRG based on it's subjob. I really don't care what it's called, and S-E is free to play around with exactly what boosts DRG would get. Here's my take on such an ability. The player gets two bonuses, one of them defensive, and the wyvern gets one--bonuses are divided on the same criteria that wyvern utility is.

If the player has a melee subjob, the DRG would have +4% critical hit rate. The wyvern gains tier II breath attacks. This would only result in 8-10% more damage (no fancy names or animations, just a II added to the end), but would also have additional effects whose power is based on TP. Paralyze, Slow, and Poison would be natural options, but perhaps effects like Evasion/Attack/Defense Down also be viewed as useful by a party. As a defensive bonus, DRG would receive +10 Evasion skill.

If the player has a mage subjob, the player would receive a permanent refresh effect. This would help a DRG conserve TP and compensate for lack of MP. The wyvern would gain a Regen Breath which would trigger when the DRG casts a spell but neither Cure or Heal Breath are needed. The effect would be on par with the first Regen spell. For a defensive bonus, DRG would receive Magic Defense +4.

If the player has a multi-purpose subjob, the player would receive +7% haste. Haste is one of the only boosts that compliments the utility of the subjob in both its melee and magical aspects. The wyvern would receive the same 7% haste bonus. For a defensive bonus, DRG would gain 10 defense.

I haven't crunched any of the numbers to determine overall balance between the three types of bonus, and I cannot say how it would compare with other jobs since their changes haven't been made. Thus the numbers or bonuses themselves would be subject to change. Eitherway, this would enhance the versatility of the job while stressing its core functionality. It would also encourage players to try out different job combinations and challenge the status quo. What are your thoughts?

[Sevv]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

healing breath III already has the regen effect.

[DakAttack]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

Dragoons were built for soloing, but the game was built around working as teams. That in itself is what makes us weak EVEN THOUGH we're one of the few jobs that can solo. I'm glad they're taking the time out to study the effects, but Bal is right, we're going to be back in the same place when every job gets buffed but us.

Our role is Damage Dealer, but we have no utility outside of soloing. I know this is cliche, but we're Dragoons! Where's our history as dragon slayers now? We get one ability that allows us to randomly and rarely intimidate a dragon or wyvern and that's it? We need more utility, more spells and abilities that help the party, not just us.

Frankly I think we need a new job that can tank, but whether or not Dragoons can even be tweaked that much is a good question.

[bikkebakke]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

Frankly I think we need a new job that can tank, but whether or not Dragoons can even be tweaked that much is a good question.

I think Blue Mage will be able to tank.

[Balodoth]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

That is the first I've ever read of a regen effect on Heal Breath III. I usually have Paeon II on whenever I trigger Heal Breath, and I've never noticed anything above and beyond that. Of course, it may not stack. Can anybody confirm or deny? Were my suggestion taken seriously by S-E, increasing wyvern HP by 50 and adding a status the wyvern can remove would be an acceptable alternative.

Among other things, I'd like to see them make the wyvern not take up space. Why I have to pause to walk under something with wings is beyond me. (Unless wyvern crap can burn through metal, in which case, yes, I would pause before running under.)

[SamuiFuyu]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

I'm not too disappointed in DRG the way it is now except that 2 of our low number of abilities are pretty useless. Dragon Killer is a joke with the lack of Wyvern, and Dragon type mobs in the game. Not only that but DRG's don't tank period for it to be effective. Ancient Circle while decent offers no one anything due to parties not wanting to waste space on a DRG again HNM's. Nor can melee do much damage on them anyway.

What DRG needs in my mind is a good end game ability which can cause some real damage to HNM's and such. Maybe even an ability that dose massive damage on Wyvern and Dragon type mobs. Maybe then at least we would be wanted in a Fafnir or Wyrm party.

Honestly as Dragon Slayers I don't feel like much of one. Not with what I’m given to fight them with.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

I don't think SE plans on completely leaving Dragoon in the dark. As they said, they're waiting to further investigate the effects of the recent changes to Dragoon.

Once they tweak all the other jobs, I'm sure Dragoon will be one of the first jobs they look at and see how that fairs afterwards, and look at how they can enhance the job further.

[Balodoth]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

I'm sure they won't leave DRG in the dark, but the track record is less than impressive. How long did players have to voice their discontent until S-E finally gave us a new 2-hour? They tried to appease us with Spirit Link, which was admittedly nice but still insufficient, then with resetting the timer if dismissed at 100% health. How long until we finally got something worthwhile?

I don't want that to happen again. They are going to make a change that they think puts DRG on par with other jobs, not a change on par with other changes. DRG stands to lose out and end up behind everyone else again--sitting alone in LFP. I'm not asking for something monumental again, but I would like to see something unique that makes parties feel like we have something to offer. For instance, my suggestion of +4% critical hit rate isn't that big. It's like getting 4 free hits per 100. 7% haste isn't all that large either--7 free hits per 100, which is actually less when you take casting into account. And auto-refresh? It adds up, but you're still talking 15 seconds to a free Heal Breath, 21 seconds if you sub WHM.

That's not a big change. It's just a tweak that gives DRG more breathing room for trying out different strategies and subjob combos. It makes DRG a little more enticing to parties regardless of sub.

Digressing, I just wanted to mention that I always wanted the wyvern breath attacks to be able to skillchain when solo. What do I have to do to convince S-E to turn MB into SC whenever I'm not in a party?

[seq]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

wyvern breathes becomes useless by the time u lvl up, sigh
other jobs gets new abillities while they are already over powered ( WAR and MNK, )
BST lvl50 JSE body gives Auto-refresh so why not DRG too? since BST isn't an MP user if not BST/Mage.
what Balodoth suggested sounds nice , at least to do some DMG compared to the crazy MNKs and WAR/NINs.
i'de love to make use of Ancient circle and Dragon killer other than soloing shadow dragon in xarcabard (sp?) for fun.

[klvino]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

I usually have Paeon II on whenever I trigger Heal Breath

Okie, just for clarity-sake. You solo are a DRG/BRD? Or did you mean you expparty as a DRG/BRD? What were the conditions in which you were fighting as DRG/BRD?

Curious about the rationale.

[DakAttack]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

Nobody goes Drg/Brd unless they're soloing. Playing a song allows you to trigger Healing Breath, which doesn't require MP as it would if you were /Whm or /Blm.

[Jei]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

singing activates healing breathe too? With any songs? or only with peoan?

[Taskmage]

Re: Don't let S-E forget they promised us.

O_o Requiem > Dia then. Are status cures the only reason to sub whm, then? Seems like brd would give you more useful stats and less downtime.