Penta Thrust

[Auron517]

I just got Penta no less than 15 minutes ago, and let me tell you, it rocks!

My party was fighting Funnel Bats in Garlaige Citadel. Once my Polearm skill hit 150, I used berserk, switched into my WS gear, used Penta, and it did an astonishing 700 damage.

Okay, so after that, I kept trying it out. It never did near that amount of damage agian, but the lowest it hit for was 185, and the highest was 330.

My point is, what is the problem with this weaponskill? I've seen people put Penta down in the past, saying it's no good, and how I should just keep using Double Thrust until Wheeling Thrust.

At this point, I really don't see anything wrong with it. I alternated between Penta and Double Thrust, trying to experiment with my damage, and didn't see that big a difference. On bats, Penta would usually do more, on beetles they averaged out the same. I even tried Penta out on an Earth Elemental that we aggroed, and it hit for a respectable 250. Even if my weaponskills don't hit for a lot, wyvern breath usually pushes my damage up by atleast 90 or so.

Is there some major factor that I'm missing out on? Penta seems to be pretty powerful at this point. I used it until the party disbanded, and it matched up, if not just plain out damaged Double Thrust.

So what's the matter with Penta, if there is one at all? I hope you Dragoons with more experience can elaborate on this for me.

[lionx]

Re: Penta Thrust

I am no Dragoon but i am pretty sure that when i say Multi-hit WS tend to whiff alot and not be consistant on ITs, its true...i am sure a DRG can elaborate more.

Even if the above is not a real factor in the game, i do believe Penta has sucktastic Skillchain properties in terms of getting the ones that are popular.

[Anaki]

Re: Penta Thrust

well on those bats at the time i had thf sub :D i did remember a penta of 900+ nearly 1k.. (300 tp FTW) but overall the 5 hits dont land and my double thrust was doing more, also bats are weak to polearms so yes bonus. also before wheeling thrusdt is skewer (3 hit ws) which is better then double imo, also it is a bit gear dependant. how much acc and dex is your ws gear giving you? more acc = more hits.

the one noticeable problem will be a skillchain double thrust, and skewer at 60 both open up distortion, while penta opens and closes lvl 1 light and dark. also closes lvl 2 dark/earth SC not that good for lvling

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Penta Thrust

Double thrust and Scewer have higher acc and more damage per actuall hit, because of this they stack stronger with sneak attack, as the first hit is the only one which gets the damage bonus.

Unless your stressing acc in your gear and food your going to hit low often, it is just as likely that you do less damage then more damage with penta, so what you realy have is the same damage, with unreliable delivery, and most importantly, less useful SC combination. You very rarly need light, dark or earth MB for many creatures during the first few levels after obtaining penta, unless your participating in a 3 WS SC your not going to be helping the team by doing maybe more, or maybe less damage with pentathrust wile not even aiding in a useful SC.

Double Thrust opens Distortion, and Scewer closes Fusion, both are much more effective bursting combinations then penta thrust til late game. The "chance" to do more damage wile neglecting effective MB and either boosting or receiveing a boost in damage from aiding a chain of WS as well aiding your wyvern with a silly MB if you happen to follow anyone in a chain isn't very good. You may (pointing out here, may) do more damage with pentathrust then DT and Scewer, but the overall damage gained boosting a teammates WS damage, achieving an effective MB, which does slightly more damage itself and greatly increases spell damage, is better then the chance of you doing more damage on your own. It is a simple equation, you have a chance to do more damage, or you can ensure that the party does more damage.

If your not in a party with a Blm though the whole MB thing goes out the window, and if your have outstanding acc, you can deal more damage just putting together your strongest SC, for example a Nin, Sam, Rng, Drg, Rdm, and Smn, such a party doesn't need MB and then Penta is alot more attrative, but depending on your Str, acc, and sub abilities, you may still do more damage with DT or Scewer, expecially when stacking with sneak attack. 5 hits from a penta thrust can do more damage then DT or Scewer, but the chance of hitting 5 times with penta are just as likely as hitting 0 times on average characters, DT hits 2 times very reliably, and Scewer..... Well unless your stacking SA it will probably do the same damage as penta.

The most effective thing you can do for your team is cooperate, if that means swinging away then do it, but most of the time it means coordiating your attacks.

[Armando]

Re: Penta Thrust

I can't comment from experience on Penta Thrust but I don't feel Gravitation is useless; Drain can be very damaging when MB'd.

[Sevv]

Re: Penta Thrust

ok well here we go...

multiple hit weapon skills are not too dependable. but when i have on my acc gear only life belt and and merman gorget. i still land 3-4 hits with sushi.

now since i have skewer i run with that on its and vts or lower penta, also depends on sc.

but i never encounter pentas that low. what are you using?

1644 penta thrust on it demon
800 skewer on it bird in bibki bay

the more scc you have the crazier penta becomes!

Double Post Edited:
oh but the great thing about penta is once monks get howling u can produce transfiction and compression light and darks kick ass.

[Auron517]

Re: Penta Thrust

Okay, so Penta is trash because of its lack of skillchain viability, and unreliable accuracy.

So, If I was looking to put maximum damage output with it, I should go for an all ACC equip, giving all my hits a better chance to land, instead of macroing in STR for stronger ones?

That seems sort of strange. I was using Penta with all out str equip and didn't really notice any missing all that often, and my damage was looking pretty nice. Does Penta's lack of accuracy become more apparent as I go into the higher levels? Because right now, it's looking pretty reliable.

Not that i'm doubting your information in any way, just making an observation. I'll try using it agian, this time with my acc setup, and see if it improves on its potential.


The lack of its use is a real downer. Does it remain inferior like this the entire game, or is there a paticular point where Penta Thrust is viable to use?

[lionx]

Re: Penta Thrust

Well Penta is very well on EM and lower monsters, and its a damn freaking monster in ballista vs light armored opponents like mages or certain people with sniper rings(take em off damnit!). Penta is also not that bad if you can actually HIT the monster you exp off of in the 60s known as Torama, but so far...i dont think any DRG i personally pted with can hit them consistantly during exp =/ So we dont do Gravitation.

[Zeiphyr]

Re: Penta Thrust

Yup, your damage on Penta Thrust depends on how many of those 'penta' (5) hits land. Overall it is definitely a strong ws. I use it mostly for soloing, sometimes in PTs when I dont sc with anyone (back when I Penta was my highest ws)

At the earlier lvls its best to just stick to Double Thrust for skillchains. Penta thrust has a low range of sc versatility. Also when u use it on a IT(+) mob during your PT, but you dont have good accuracy, u'll probably end up hitting 1 or 2 out of those 5 hits... doing little damage and making drgs everywhere look bad lol.

Once you get skewer, that will be your new ws for sc in PTs. Then vorpal thrust (dont use that as much as I do skewer) and wheeling thrust (lv3 light sc!)

[Brayden]

Re: Penta Thrust

When farming or soloing, Penta thrust is a beast. Mainly b/c you're attacking monsters that are much lower than you. I did use penta vs Toramas when we exped with them for gravitation and hit 4-5 easy. In a PT most of the time its my job (as a drg) to open skillchains for a thf or another heavier DD. Thus, I use whatever is best for that situation- dont feel like you're being robbed of a potentially awesome WS- you arent. It just has certain uses. At 70+ when ACC is less of an issue, Ive heard of drgs using penta in much the same way a war uses rampage. When I get there Im anxious to try it.

[Omni]

Re: Penta Thrust

I can't comment from experience on Penta Thrust but I don't feel Gravitation is useless; Drain can be very damaging when MB'd.

GRAVITATION is GREAT! too bad toramas are the only as far as i can remeber it's truly great against. too bad people still use distortion on toramas

as many ppl pointed out, poor renkei ability and multi-hit accuracy seems to be the issue here. coupled with the fact that vs. non flying and non soft bodied mobs, pentathrust has another thing going against it.

i think in merit/75 xp pt, ive seen SS of drg using penta on weapons. any job at 75 can do some big numbers if decked out. penta can easily break the 1k mark.

[Sevv]

Re: Penta Thrust

i still as much as i know penta is "unrealiable" i dont see too much variation with it on the low end. It seems to be a consistant 600-800 at 60+ every now and then (like 1-50) it drops down to 200 obicously alot of wiffs. But i see more higher badges. Tho now parting with a new blm whos mbs are amazing with burst we do a simple shoulder tackle > skewer. And penta can sc with more than the one i mentioned. but still its not more till higher levels so at this time ply around with it and learn more about how to get more hits out of it.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Penta Thrust

using the best acc belt and an acc neck piece along with sushi, which alone adds massive acc is a highly acc stress build, and if your using that then you have a good chance of scoring alot of high hitting pentathrusts. But trying to draw general analysis from an example of a highly acc stressed build draws a very subjective view of how effective penta is compared to other moves.

Even though uber qualifications are a norm for acceptance in FF circles, they arn't standard specifications for analysis, they are just that, the over the top readings. Some players will choose to be cheap, some will use highly str and attack buffed builds, and some will use medium acc and att builds. How good the weapon skill is on a Acc stacked Dragoon is only a partial analysis of how effective the WS is overall.

I have used warrior sub with Drg and sushi with a high mix of acc gear and I know about getting high penta readings. But I also do thief sub and use a more str and attack focused build because SA overlaps any acc I have. And on the focus of WS damage, My Drg/Thf with high attack build will hit for much higher damage with DT and Scewer then penta on a continuous basis.

Because Warrior is the default sub for a Dragoon, and because berserk covers much of the added attack up needed, and because double attack benifits well from acc, a good Drg/War will usually stress acc. But not everyone will buy sushi, it is a premium item no matter how widely used they are, so it is still a very particular analysis.

For the record I will admit that Scewer hits just about as lousy as penta, but because of the SC grid and stronger initial hit it is still better then penta much of the time.

[Ammoth]

Re: Penta Thrust

If you have the right gear, Penta is awesome, if you're not landing all hits, get more +accuracy gear, it's as simple as that.