The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

I wanted to start a thread where "educated" players could make a list of the pros and cons of being a dragoon. I think it would be benificial for players to have a outline of the difficulties and strengths of Drg for the purpose of properly judging the jobs effectiveness.

Under the original post I will make a list of all the pros and cons of the Drg job which are stated on this thread, as to avoid endless repeats of the same comment. I will try to recall this post periodicly to refresh the list, although I may not visit often.

I will admit that I am not very fond of the Drg class at all, I have a difficult time with the entire melee system altogether, but I dislike Drg the most. But this isn't a place to discuss popularity, and I would appreciate if all unfounded or unjustified comments were omitted. This is also not a comparison of Drg to any specific DD class, although thier effectiveness is closely tied with thier comepetition, this thread is not ment to revolve around how Drg compares to any single class.

Thus I present the list of Pros and Cons of the Dragoon class, I thank all proceeding contributors, expecially those who can make a developed explanation along with their statements.

The Benifits/Pros of being a Dragoon:
1) A Drg can provide Melee Damage without creating as much Unwanted Agro.
2) A Drg has improved Accuracy (Accuracy Bonus 1).
3) A Drg provides consistant Damage output.
4) Polearms are effective Vs flying creatures. (Primary Weapon Choice for Drg).
5) Useful Weapon Skill Grids for early levels.
6) A Drgs Wyvern can preform unique Healing Breaths which allow Drg to heal without high cost in Critical Situations.
7) A Drg can use such Healing Breath to solo, and do so effectively with certain races and equiptment.
8) A Drg, along with his Wyvern, can provide High Damage Over Time.
9) A Drg can gain TP quickly Via Jump and High Jump.


The Handicaps/Cons of being a Dragoon:
1) A Drg is less effective if he loses his Wyvern.
2) Vulnerability to AoE attacks are compounded by the Wyvern.
3) A Drg has weaker WS damage for significant portions of the game, and poor WS closers across most levels.
4) A Wyvern rarly scores a Magic Burst with Elemental Breaths because Drg rarely close a SC, and Wyvern MB are not very empowering.
5) A Drg has poor Ranged Attack capabilities, thus poor pulling options.
6) A Drg has developed the worst reputation in the game, and it Impares his opportunities to party and play.
7) A Drg has somewhere between Limited and Poor armor selection.
8) A Drg has low tactical functionality, hindering their usefulness in a party.
9) A Drg has weak agression attaining skills, and poor defense, hindering his ability to support the party, expecially mages.

(Edit) Just a relic of Drg history, SE has finally addressed this class.

[Icemage]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

You played DRG for 60 levels but you're not fond of it?

Pros:
- Very accurate in melee
- Very consistent damage over time.
- Piercing damage is good against some enemy types
- Wyvern breath can be useful when subbed mage (but melee suffers)
- Good setups for early skillchains (Distortion)

Cons:
- Lack of strong weaponskills except in a few level ranges
- Wyvern is vulnerable to area attacks
- No ability to fight from range (can't pull)
- Weak late-game skillchain potential
- Bad reputation amongst some players


Icemage

[Cyborg]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

ok here are some thing i think about drg's all together:


pros:
-strong to most flying types
- great DoT with right gear
- stronger ws at later lvl's(if the right gear permites it)
-super jump resets drg's hate

cons:
- lack of Sc's at high lvls (penta doesn't make much good sc's)
- lack of gear that boost str (lol dual wielding snip rings and life belt helps, need more other place spots for attack and str)
- If dragon die's your boned >.<

58rdm,50drg,40thf,36pld,34drk,32blm

whats coming next???
-mnk or thf lol (TH2 really needed for framing ><)

[DakAttack]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Pros:
Great damage over time
Weapon skills and abilities that have the capability to spike damage
Compliments the Thief job very well
Wyvern can provide a lot of extra damage
Can fill multiple roles in a party by switching the sub job.

Cons:
Bad selection of armor.
DoT lacks against high defense or evasion monsters. (What else is new?)
Very dependant on Acc due to slow weapon and several mutli-hit weapon skills.
Wyvern is extremely suseptable to AE damage.
Suffers from extreme lack of fuction. Basically all we can do is deal damage or heal depending on our sub job whereas other jobs have a few perks here and there that add functionality.

[Omni]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Pros:

one of the best base dmg on weapons through several lvl ranges.
one of the strongest melee from lower to upper mid lvls.

Cons:

poor light renkei opener.
cannot create hate spike through dmg and/or abilities.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

I have tried to include as much as possible without overlapping comments. But some statements are too broad to make a direct mark.

Aside from that, some of the comments are not included in the OP pro and con list because they do not stand by comparison. Simply meaning, if it is an ability widely exercised by all or the majority of Damage Dealers, it does not count as a Pro. Pros are bonuses, assets unique to the job, if everyone can do it then it isn't a Pro. Likewise, if it is a handicap or difficulty that Damage Dealers altogether suffer then it is not a con. This means many benifits from Weapon Skills and Sub Jobs that can be excercised by any DD with the same subjob or one of thier weapon skills doesn't count as a Pro.

Being able to get a hate spike with a WS like any DD class, being able to voke or pull with spells from sub class, and having difficulty with enemy evasion and accuracy are all general difficulties and benifits with any DD class. The only exception is when the combination or use of a certain skill provides stronger results with Dragoon then it would with another class, for example Healing Breaths.

Please continue to consider the Pros and Cons of Dragoon, and try not to repeat items already listed on the OP. Thank You for your contributions.

P.S. If there is an item which you or someone has stated and is overlooked write me a personal message to notify me, I may have overlooked it, or maybe I haven't revisited yet. If I haven't edited since the post then I probably haven't seen it yet :/

[DakAttack]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Con: A lot of Dragoons visit Allakhazam regularly.

[aegina]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

A dragoon can dd, and be a trick buddy.



A war can dd, is an excellent tank or backup tank, an excellent puller, and can be a trick buddy.



A sam can dd, can backup tank, makes an excellent puller, and can be a trick buddy. he also enables the other dd's to deal more damage through easier skillchains.



A blm is an excellent dd, an excellent backup healer, and an excellent enfeebler. He can stun, and he has escape, warp, warp 2, divine seal, and elemental seal. He can sleep links, and he has poisona, erase, stoneskin, raise, and…you get the point… (overpowered)



A drk can stun, and has the amazing ability to die on cue by stacking soul eater and last resort…



A dragoon is excellent at dot (damage over time), as long as the wyvern is out. But the wyvern is easily killed by aoe’s, resulting in the pt either limiting their choice of prey, or else limiting the drg’s abilities should the wyvern die at levels when it is best to fight mobs with aoe’s (which is many, many levels lol). the wyver also creates more strain on the healers through spirit link, resulting in more downtime for the pt on the whole.



A dragoon essentially has no 2 hour ability, because in order to compete with the other jobs, his 2 hr must always be active. A sam can use his 2hr to unload a massive amount of damage on the mob all at once, possibly saving the pt in an emergency. A drk can use his 2hr to deal a massive amount of damage all at once, possibly saving the pt in an emergency. A war can use his 2hr to unload a lot of damage all at once, possibly saving the pt in an emergency.



A black mage can use his 2hr to unload a massive amount of damage all at once, possibly saving the pt in an emergency. Or, he can use it to main heal the pt for a few seconds, possibly saving the pt in an emergency. Or he can use it to cast escape, possibly saving the pt in an emergency. Or he could use it to…you get the idea… (overpowered)



A drg could use his ws’s to deal a massive amount of damage all at once, if he has tp. Of course, so can the other jobs. on the positive side, a drg seems to be able to build tp a little bit faster than most jobs.



A drg’s damage is split between himself and the wyvern, making it harder to see how much damage the drg actually deals. This leads some people to think wrongly that drg is a poor dd. A drg is an excellent dd. The problem is he just isn’t much else…



For the list above:


pros:
-arguably the best dot in the game


cons:
-lack of variety in the things the drg can do to save the pt in an emergency, compared to other jobs
-no single characteristic that causes the drg to stand out in a good way
-the wyvern causes targetting problems for the pt (ive seen this). you can easilly target the wyvern by mistake, messing up certain commands and slowing down response time for pt members.

i'm not dragoon hating. im only trying to be honest.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Ok Aegina, your list is way off cue, if you bothered to read up, the compiled list is added to the original OP, this way we don't have dozens of repeats which take up the first 7 pages. And we arn't making direct comparisons to particular jobs, we are making a list of pros and cons for Drg as a Melee DD class in general.

Lets try to stay focused on the topic.

[aegina]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

oops sorry

how about this:

pros:
a drg makes an excellent sata partner
when pting with a thf, a drg can do some interesting things with hate control

cons:
A lot of non-drg players don’t understand the job well, and therefore don’t know how to use it to its fullest potential

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

The SATA partner has been suggested more then once, and I haven't put it on the list for a very good reason. I have played Drg and I have played Thf, and I can tell you one thing for certian, A Warrior, Samurai, Dark Knight, Monk, and Ninja, even a Ranger, all make Just as good or better SATA buddy then Drg. This is because they all have better spike damage and skills to draw hate allowing the Thief to put the hate where it is needed, on the tank, many of them have better defense, dodge moves, and other assets which will reduce the damage taken by the same or better, compared to a Drg. Even if a Drg pulls agro to draw SATA on the tank he still takes more damage then almost any of those classes, most of them have more defense, or use ninja shadows, samruai has more defense and third eye, and monk has great HP, vitality and may counter. As for doing SATA off the Drg and droping hate, it is a mildly useful addition, but any pro party will gain agro to the damage dealer momentarily wile the thief does SATA on the tank.

The best SATA partner is a War/Nin, because he is a full fledged DD class, and a full fledged tank class, with 2 of these in your party and a thief, the tanks/DDs stand on both ends of the enemy, and the thief just toggles back and forth doing SATA as often as he can, wile the Warriors only use voke to grasp the agro onto themselves wile the SATA is performed. Instead of taking heavy damage, trying to release the hate to survive, a Warrior or Ninja can just start tanking from there.

The old cliche, "Drg is a Thfs best friend", has nothing to do with Drg being good at supporting thief, it has to do with Drg being able to do almost nothing else. Droping the hate from an SATA doesn't keep the hate off the Whm and Blm, the primary tanking concern, A Drg is so weak that he has to ditch agro or be killed, rather then be able to withstand a reasonable amount of damage, or even tank it off, or dodge a few hits.

[Icemage]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

I would say that much of the impression that DRG + THF is a natural combo has a lot to do with their skillchain combinations early on.

Double Thrust -> Viper Bite for Distortion is a very potent combination against lots of enemy types in the early 30s to mid 50s range, so you have a 20ish level span where DRG + THF makes an awful lot of sense, especially as both jobs are somewhat common. It also works pre-Viper Bite if the thief is using swords for SA + Fast Blade.


Icemage

[TGNExtendedGamer]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Wow. This thread helps me out alot. I am trying to figure out what advanced job I want when I get to lvl 30. haha =D

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Again, the assesment that Drg is a better combination with thief because he has a certain WS grid is premature. A samurai also has that exact same WS grid for his first WS, and he just so happens to be the grand class of being available for WS combo, as well as having better armor and third eye to defend himself momentarily, as he grabs hate with his WS and provoke, then the SATA viperbite goes through the tank. Dark Knight and Warrior can easily open distortion with a Great Sword, or scythe.

Again, the idea that Drg is has a Pro in Drg + Thf combination has nothing to do with Drg being good, but Drg having only certain qualities, which just about everyone has along with more.

Abilities which are common among most all DD classes are not pros, they are mediums.

I'm sure there are a few more factors to add to the list in the future, but it is pretty clear to see from this point that Drgs strengths are fewer and less empowering as Drgs weaknesses. The best strengths about Drg are slight advantages, and a few unique capabilities, wile the weakness are serious tatical and functional difficulties.

The only realy justification for the weaknesses of Drg is the fact that he can he is the only class that is an acceptable party and solo class, the problem here is being acceptably good in several classes isn't as good as being exceptionally good at one thing.

If Drg is ment to do more damage then other classes at the lose of an emergency 2 hr and many tactical capabilities then he aught to do considerably more damage. If he is going to take more damage then any DD because of the AoE recieved on 2 parts (himself and wyvern), then he should simply do more damage which is beyond comparison. If he is ment to be a sudo melee and caster then his wyvern breath should have an easier HP trigger, after all, he has basically all the same armor selection of a Rdm, and nobody likes them on the front line.

And if he can't be improved in his specialty fields then he shoould simply be improved in common fields, like spike damage, acceptable ranged attack, and for god sake.... the wyvern could use a mid game graphic improvement, it looks like the Geiko Gekko with wings.

That's just my perception, almost every Drg will tell you the job could improve, even if they think it is balanced, most any player on any DD class thinks of improvements, if they are so bored or distressed by their character that they spend time coming up with Ideas for it then maybe it should be improved, even if it is just cosmetic and tactical improvements.

I still have my Drg, but I started the game over with Elvaan, because the difficulty of being a Hume Drg is a waste of time. At least with Elvaan I can get in a party as a mage without care and do the best in melee, which makes being a DD alot less distressing.

Thanks for everyones imput, and feel free to add more. My niquil is kicking in so it's time for me to go to bed, thanks again guys.

[DakAttack]

Re: The benifits and handicaps of Drg.

Again, the assesment that Drg is a better combination with thief because he has a certain WS grid is premature. A samurai also has that exact same WS grid for his first WS, and he just so happens to be the grand class of being available for WS combo, as well as having better armor and third eye to defend himself momentarily, as he grabs hate with his WS and provoke, then the SATA viperbite goes through the tank. Dark Knight and Warrior can easily open distortion with a Great Sword, or scythe.

Again, the idea that Drg is has a Pro in Drg + Thf combination has nothing to do with Drg being good, but Drg having only certain qualities, which just about everyone has along with more.

Abilities which are common among most all DD classes are not pros, they are mediums.

I'm sure there are a few more factors to add to the list in the future, but it is pretty clear to see from this point that Drgs strengths are fewer and less empowering as Drgs weaknesses. The best strengths about Drg are slight advantages, and a few unique capabilities, wile the weakness are serious tatical and functional difficulties.

The only realy justification for the weaknesses of Drg is the fact that he can he is the only class that is an acceptable party and solo class, the problem here is being acceptably good in several classes isn't as good as being exceptionally good at one thing.

If Drg is ment to do more damage then other classes at the lose of an emergency 2 hr and many tactical capabilities then he aught to do considerably more damage. If he is going to take more damage then any DD because of the AoE recieved on 2 parts (himself and wyvern), then he should simply do more damage which is beyond comparison. If he is ment to be a sudo melee and caster then his wyvern breath should have an easier HP trigger, after all, he has basically all the same armor selection of a Rdm, and nobody likes them on the front line.

And if he can't be improved in his specialty fields then he shoould simply be improved in common fields, like spike damage, acceptable ranged attack, and for god sake.... the wyvern could use a mid game graphic improvement, it looks like the Geiko Gekko with wings.

That's just my perception, almost every Drg will tell you the job could improve, even if they think it is balanced, most any player on any DD class thinks of improvements, if they are so bored or distressed by their character that they spend time coming up with Ideas for it then maybe it should be improved, even if it is just cosmetic and tactical improvements.

I still have my Drg, but I started the game over with Elvaan, because the difficulty of being a Hume Drg is a waste of time. At least with Elvaan I can get in a party as a mage without care and do the best in melee, which makes being a DD alot less distressing.

Thanks for everyones imput, and feel free to add more. My niquil is kicking in so it's time for me to go to bed, thanks again guys.

You're kind of getting annoying with this. You remind me of ArsClicky from Allakhazam with the way you type and pose your threads. You try to maintain this balance between "I hate Dragoons" and "Don't hate me because I sympathize and I'm your friend". Making these threads is really only fodder for flamers and trolls even if we don't immediately see it. Ask any Dragoon who's worked his ass off to get past 60 what we'll need and he'll tell you. Sounds like you had a grudge the entire time you leveled, and race isn't going to make anything better.

I've been inching my way up with Dragoon and I've recently hit 66. I wear the most sub par equipment because my funds are tied up elsewhere. It doesn't stop me from being a supreme DD and opening the most killer skill chains for Black Mages. Most of your cons don't affect me at all. It just goes to show you player > job.