Wyvern 2hr

[Kaylik]

Well i know just about every DRG love their 2hr and dont want it changed and i agree, but i do think we need a 2hr that actually helps when in a pinch. Now i understand that DRG is a Dot, but that is mainly true when we have our wyvern out, and to me that kinda sux. It seems that our 2hr just brings us up to par with other DD and SLIGHTLY above them. Now I remember when i was in crawlers nest, we had like 2 other crawlers link with the one we were fighting, and we beat them. Well after we won the SAM and some other ppl said that they used there 2hr and i said i already had mine out. To me my wyvern did slightly help to beat the mobs down but it doesnt help if they miss or do little dmg. So i belive that we DRGs should keep our 2hr but also let our wyvern get a 2hr. I think that our wyverns 2hr should be 2-3 forced breath attacks and preferably the element of our choice. To me this would kinda be spike dmg which could really help when things get a bit hectic. Now this is just something that i think could be really helpful and hope that it would be implemented. I am all for any ideas others of you may have and maybe some slight crticism but please NO FLAMES. If you dont like the idea dont yell at me about and say "DRGs rule and dont need any improvements you freakin noob" if you dont think we need this just say i think we are fine the way we are. So i hope many of you will enjoy this and have some good things to say.

[Spiritdetective]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

Sounds good but they haven't listen to us dragoons before so why should they start now?

[Macht]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

That's been drilled on these forums already shouldn't be that hard to find still. Lot of intresting ideas for a 2hr change, probably want to look at that.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

The wyvern is a 2 hr, and having two 2 hr skills isn't exactly fair, because then we have a 2 hr for emergencies and another 2 hr, our wyvern, compared to other classes with just thier 2 hr and skills. Get my drift?

The thing about Drg is that they have X amount of power, and it doesn't get any better, it can only get worse if the wyvern gets trashed. I think Drg needs a skill with a rather High reuse time, like 10 or 30 minutes, that does alot of damage, like a bigger better jump, this would allow Drg to add a significant hit to a target from time to time, but isn't as strong as a 2 hr. This means a Drg will be able to use a relativly strong move every now and then, but not as strong as emergency 2 hrs from other classes, but they are also more free to use it semi regularly. Even without the wyvern, a Drg with 1 more semi powerful "other jump" would be able to provide the same damage as other DD, simply at different intervals, and with thier wyvern, they would do just that much more, which may be less then a 2hr in an emergency, but expounds on their naturally continuous high output. Having a 10 minute jump which is about twice as powerful as Jump in damage would be enough to give Drg a pretty decent jump approx. once every 4 enemies, or in a HNM he could get 2 or 3 in during the battle, stacking powerful buffs to it. With a 30 minute jump about 3 or 4 times the power of Jump he could provide semi hourly emergency damage, which is available more often then a 2 hr, but isn't available all the time.

I've alway thought all 2 hr skills are not available enough, and it would be nice if they were 1 hr skills. 2 hrs is kind of limits your special ability to emergency use only, and kind of drives the stake called "time consumption" in a little deeper, which is the worst thing about FFXI. I think that certain semi hourly skills or reducing the 2 hr timer would be a great asset to players who play alot or play sporaticly, and dampen the difficulty of losing or wasting certain 2 hrs, but it seems that SE does everything it can to make this game take as long as possible.

There are alot of ideas floating around, but they seem to fall on deaf ears, it's not that any of the ideas are good, but that thousands of players want a change and SE doesn't do jack. I've never even seen any developers or representatives address the gaming populations interests. Either they don't care, or they don't bother checking the english imput. But the Grind central engine and complete lack of feedback drove me to play elsewhere. FF will always have a place with me because of previous titles, and I may still come back to take the easier road to success, but this game pretty much blew SE reputation with me, between this and the cop-off of the FFX sequel X2, I just lost interest.

There are alot of reasons why they should, shouldn't, could or couldn't do certain ideas, but they don't do anything to address certain circles of players, and I truely wonder if they remember whos paying thier pay checks. Unless something revolutionary is added to the game, I probably wonl't ever come back, and may even drop the FF series altogether, they just don't ring with the interest and spirit of the previous FFs.

[Macht]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

Again, I suggest reading the other posts in regards to the DRG 2hr. In particular changing the DRG 2hr and re-assigning Wyvern Call to be with a conditional timer that adjusts, but isn't a 2hr. In effect it was making the Wyvern kind of more usable like a BST is capable but still enforcing the idea that Dragoon and Wyvern are one which is opposite of BST just sacraficing their pet to what they fight or getting rid of it before the mob they are fighting dies.

To simplify more, basically stating to change the Call function out of being a 2hr and down to something like a 1hr which countdown adjusts depending on Wyvern health and conditions. Then add a new 2hr which does something different.

[DakAttack]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

Dragoons should have to go out and catch their own wyvern, too bad that would wreck the neat storyline.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

The 2 hr skill is the only exclusive skill outside of ones that are too high to be subed, so making the Wyvern anything but your 2 hr is completely unacceptable, this has been hashed hundreds of times. The only way to provide Drg with some emergency power is to have a high lvl skill that only Drg can use, on a semi hourly basis, would compensate for thier lack of emergency power and high hitting damage. Giving them an emergency 2 hr as well as the wyvern is obsurd, if the Drg has a 2 hr like everyone else and a wyvern then they are up 1 wyvern in power over everyone else wile having emergency power like everyone else. It has become known that the Wyvern can effectively raise Drgs power over others for Dot, that is a Drgs power, nothing in the way of emergencies but the most in the way of long term.

Having both is obviously unfair, but besides the fact that Drg has the weakest emergency power, battles are rarely effective under long term circumstances. This means DoT is a poor tactical asset, being able to put a large amount of damage in quickly and ending the match has much more tactical power, this keeps the enemy from putting out lots of damage. This is where Mana Burn parties accel, they can defeat the enemy before he can put out his due damage. A Drg has the Jump to increase his damage output on a regular basis, but it is basicly the equivalent of a powerful attack or a WS without the chaining properties, and just as often misses. Drgs DoT doesn't and cannot be exploited for quick victories, which is a weakness. Having a semi available double powered jump would improve the Drgs Damage ratio, maybe too much. But if all 2 hr skills were reduced to 1 hr skills, and the Drg had another powerful jump, then everyone would get a fair improvement. All classes would have more specials, and Drg, who would benifit from this in his availability of the wyvern, would use another Jump skill to compete with the rest for the added damage they would have.

Replacing the wyvern 2 hr is completely not for discussion, having the wyvern as anything but a 2 hr either means all classes can use a wyvern, or you can use wyvern til high lvls when only you can't obtain that skill, or the Drg gets 2 exclusive skills which add up to equal emergency effectiveness and better DoT effectiveness, which is obviously an unbalanced equation.

[Lmnop]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

If S-E changes teh 2 hour, that's their duty to come up with a good replacement. I'm neither for or against wyvern as 2 hour, though I really like the idea Macht was talking about.

If they did change it though, I'd like to point out a few things:

even a thief/summoner can summon fenrir.

even a ninja/beastmaster can charm.

they both have horrible flaws which prevent them from normal use, so how would a /DRG wyvern be any different? If i'm a 40 monk, I do not want a 20 wyvern with me for the same reason a 40 whm/smn won't whip out summons to melee. Just my perspective.

Though whatever they do, they need to give DRG something post 50. I've had many ideas that I think would be good improvements for drg, but I don't see the point in posting them to an audience jaded of such suggestions. S-E knows the situation, they'll fix it or they won't.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

The rules that govern Wyverns are only writen for an exclusive skill. They could make a half effective wyvern that is only as strong as your Drg sub class, but it would still be more effective then you think because of the wyverns abnormal damage type.

Truth is, the successful Drgs out there will have a field day with anyone who even glints the idea of ripping off the wyvern from a 2 hr status. The simple balance of Drg is already set to do more damage over time and less emergency power, if you change it to be like everyone else then you destroy the whole purpose of diversity, you may as well remove the Drg job and make them all Drk if they are going to provide the same technique.

Changing the wyvern from a 2hr status totaly rerights the function of the Drg, and wile there is a high demand for change, you cannot pull a fast on on all the players who are successful with Drg as it is, or overpower the job by giving them a full emergency technique and a permenant side kick.

Likes and desires come after balance and functionality. It is a simple rule that SE is not going to break, they honestly don't care about what you suggest or how hard you suggest it, If you don't believe me then check a few of my threads over the past 2 yrs on some of the popular FF sites. True, the Drg can improve on some very simple and functional ajustments, but totaly redefining the job is an unacceptable ploy which will not be considered. You have to prove that the class will be balanced when you make a suggestion, just cause some ppl are interested or feel impared by the lack of an emergency based 2 hr doesn't hold a match in consideration to balance.

SE didn't create this game and the characters to be totaly redeveloped by player interest, even if it could improve, they arn't going to do it. The best suggestions are the simple ones, something that can be slightly ajusted to make the most difference. And in case you couldn't notice, having your wyvern every 2 hrs and having another powerful jump every 10 or 30 minutes is alot better then having your wyvern every 1 hr and having an emergency 2 hr. The best your emergency 2hr could do is probably less then other DD classes, compared to something of simular power used ever 30 minutes, and having your wyvern every 2 hrs, you get 4 times more use out of a good power skill, instead of having an emergency 2 hr.

Sad thing is your asking for less, and trying to justify it. Any experienced Drg or DD of any class would come in here and rant on me for suggesting an totaly overpowered skill. I can already quote the line they would use "So you get a wyvern and an emergency skill every 30 mintues compared to all the other DD who only have an emergency skill every 2 hrs". Truth is, having another jump at the same power of Jump every 10 or 20 minutes, but maybe with some tactical advantage better then Jump, would allow a Drg to start boss a boss battle with 3 attack jumps, Jump, the "new" Jump, and High Jump. If combine with power up skills from other classes the Drg could do about the same Damage as as some emergency 2 hrs, and get three attacks worth of TP in the period of 1 attack, on top of which High Jump would reduce the agro to a reasonable amount, and you have Super Jump just in case. Being able to pull even an extra ordinary Jump every 30 minutes would give the Drg the ability to stack Jumps on a target every 30 minutes for an impressive starter, it if was 10 minutes then every other DD in the game would scream bloody imbalance.

That said, it would still be an attack which could miss quite easily, and could be made in such a way that isn't too powerful, which is why I support it.

[Balodoth]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

Who let Bahamut Kaiser in here? I keep seeing these 'chapters' but there's virtually no content. I rarely see somebody talk so much yet say so little.

In a nutshell, S-E tried to appease DRG by allowing us to nullify the timer on our 2-hour. That, in and of itself, qualifies as a nerf. And really, with any other 2-hour, it would be. But S-E made a big mistake when they did it: the wyvern had to have full HP for it to work. In other words, being a split second off in timing or missing any minute detail could result in a DRG willfully stopping their 2-hour and losing its full effectiveness. Not only did S-E make our ability better, but they made it equally worse. Do you think any other job would like it if there was a way to accidentally turn off their 2-hour ability? Well, that's what S-E did to DRG, and that's what they need to fix.

Many people say there should be a different 2-hour ability, and I agree on one point. Other jobs are fully functional without using their 2-hour, sometimes going a week or more without using it once. DRG's 2-hour should be designed such that it is optional and that DRG is considered a useful and viable job without using it.

Other people say that the wyvern's lifespan should be longer. I also agree with this. Whether it gains resistance to AoE, is given the ability to parry, gets a HP boost, gains an HP Drain additional effect, some combination of these, or something else entirely is up to S-E. One thing is certain though, a player should never be penalized for sending their friend to safety.

Here's another random idea for S-E to take into consideration. Dismiss no longer effects our 2-hour ability. Instead a new ability is added to the Pet Commands (Recall, Whistle, I don't care). It is on, let's say, a 10 minute, sliding timer but is only accessible when Dismiss is used. The amount of time the DRG has to wait is proportianately inverse to the percent of health the wyvern had when dismissed. If the wyvern had full health, the ability is immediately cooled down. If it had 30% health, the timer begins with 70% of its cooldown timer left. If it had 99% health, you have to wait 1% of the cooldown (6 seconds in this example). In addition, when the wyvern is summoned via the 2-hour, since it is fully refreshed, it has a noticeable ATK and ACC buff for a minute. This allows the summoning to function slightly more like other 2-hours, but otherwise effects the use of a wyvern very little. When the wyvern is gone because of reasons such as riding a chocobo or changing your job, the recall timer sets to max.

But that's just an idea, take it or leave it.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

Balodoth obviously doesn't have the courage or ability to address my concepts, even though he half-wittingly supports some of them. If you can't respect the opinion of others then you can shove your opinion.

I woln't be hearing from him again. (Ignore).

[Lmnop]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

I pretty much agree with Baladoth except I'm not sure why it would have to be a different ability. Why not just make the 2-hour itself proportionate? If dismissed @90% health, you have to wait 10% of 2 hours (math....)

But I think you should be nicer to bahamut. Ask questions about his implications instead of becoming belligerent. I know your posts and respect them, don't let the Dragoon community down. C'mon, the ducks flock together! >.>;

[DakAttack]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

I don't see our 2hr as a problem as I rarely lose a Wyvern while in battle. Most of the time it's just a matter of positioning our wyverns out of the way of frontal AE attack, Super Jumping AEs, and equiping the chest AF between fights. The good Dragoons see their wyverns for more than just an invaluable tool and life long companion. ^^

Why don't we just tack on an extra attack from your wyvern onto your <bt> once you summon it? It could be just twice as strong since Dismiss is on a ten(I think) minute timer and it could be abused if too powerful. This would give the wyvern a bit more TP which, in my opinion, should affect their breath attack a lot more than it currently does.

[Balodoth]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

I can agree with Impaction on TP. I rarely see a difference in the wyvern's breath that I can attribute to TP. Usually I look at the damage then look at the element to explain it. And for Healing Breath, I've never seen TP have an effect on it in the least.

That is one of three things I'd like to see change about wyvern's breath. Secondly, I'd like to see status effects from the wyvern's breath. The third thing I would like is if S-E brought wyverns a little more in line with summons. The magic burst was a cool addition, added a bit of damage but was mostly for cool factor. While I'd like a bit more intelligent timing on the breath--quicker if I close the chain, slightly longer pause if I start--I'd like to see their breath transition to a weapon skill effect when I'm not in a party. I can't see how that wouldn't reinforce the partner ideal S-E strives for. I use Double Thrust and my wyvern follows up with Sand Breath for Distortion? Sign me up!

I guess I just want to see my wyvern grow up. I can understand if he doesn't physically change, it's easier on the PS2 if it doesn't. But when does my wyvern learn a vampiric attack to preserve itself instead of relying solely on my mothering it? When does my wyvern figure out how to anticipate an attack to parry it? When I sub a mage job, how can my wyvern watch the WHM and not figure out that Healing Breath just might hurt the undead? How can a wyvern level to 75 with me and never quite figure out how to be part of the team? A magic burst is a step in the right direction, but it just doesn't convince me. I'm supposed to have the first "good" wyvern in who knows how long, and it's just as sophisticated at level 75 as it was when I first started? I want my wyvern not only to have multiple talents for me to exploit, but I want the party to appreciate my wyvern, and for it to live long enough to justify their appreciation. Isn't that what having a wyvern is all about?

[DakAttack]

Re: Wyvern 2hr

I havn't been through many AFs, but Dragoons have one that really need to be continued with. Maybe some sort of plot where while searching for The Dragon King Ranperre's treasure we stumble accross his notes on how to strengthen our partnership through rituals and/or tasks (closing my eyes and falling backwards perchance?). It would be a nice addition if after a certain level we were granted more control, something where he would take cues from us, and maybe we'd take cues from him as well?