My proposal to SE.

[Sepukku]

Re: My proposal to SE.

Just got done wondering how Eisenburst Set increases DD-output. "Warriors are offered the Eisen sets that greatly increases their ability to tank, and overall ability to deal damage."

Anywho, my point is this (coming from a MNK, another unloved-job...at least pre-60):
You choose the job because you like it. Why you bitching? You love the job! You play it and take pride in seeing yourself and others wearing the purple!!

[fuz]

Re: My proposal to SE.

The eisen set is basically made for war/mnk. All the extra agi deffinetly ups parry, shield rates, and maybe counter rates as well. It's extremely noticeable if you have those skills capped from another job. The extra def is kind of useless--cent armor is nearly the same, but the extra vit on eisen is again, noticeable. It's pretty ridiculous for the level you get it at.

As for drg, when the job isn't as useful as it could be, you don't get to play it much. :T I always get asked to use my rdm... never get asked to use my drg.

[DakAttack]

Re: My proposal to SE.

Ok, I've sent the suggestion to SE, but there's a large constraint on the size of the message, so I could barely fit the original in. I actually submitted two suggestion forms to them, and in the second I refered them back to this thread where they can read/view our suggestions.

Let's hope they get it! ^^ Thanks to everybody for contributing.

[MMan530]

Re: My proposal to SE.

Actually, Impaction, my advice to you was to make your suggestion a little bit more concise. As interested as SE is in our suggestions (or so we would hope), it seems to be human nature to scan through something rather than fully read it. Your piece was well-written, but far too detail-oriented. I encourage all others to pick an idea or two, really focus on the change, and keep the suggestion(s) to the point. Excellent ideas, though!

I think we can all agree that DRG equipment sucks. I'm so extremely frusterated with the recent buffs to SAMs, simply because they now have options at every turn. A SAM can easily have double what my DRG's ATK+ gear gives... pretty much with two pieces of gear. It seems like the scales are tipped wildly- but because of this, I'd honestly be surprised if we don't get some equipment put into the next version update. Hopefully DRG will get the remodeling that SAM has gotten in the last few months.

A few changes that I'd like to see other than equipment are pretty close to the same lines as things already suggested. I'd like to see a job ability that DRGs can use to stun- and I think it should be level 37 or below. This would make /DRG a viable subjob in some situations, which is something that DRG has never been good for. Additionally- I do think there needs to be more All Jobs throwing weapons. Currently, there's one boomerang-type weapon that is lv75 and all jobs, but no one seems to know where to find it. It sounds like it might come from the "Kirin" of Sea. I also believe that more job traits should be given to the DRG- possibly another Acc at 50? I dunno.

Additionally, I think skillchains should be reworked a bit. To be honest, the polearm doesn't skillchain that well. If we could close a distortion, that would make a big difference, imo.

As far as wyvern-work, I think the wyvern should give us 1% of TP every time it hits, but that'd probably make it over-powered, haha. I'm pleased to see how well Spirit Link works, though I'm hoping that SE edits the HP:HP ratio. I can heal my wyvern for 80 and somehow lose 200 hitpoints. That seems a bit extreme.

[lionx]

Re: My proposal to SE.

I think the Spirit Link works that way because they dont want you to abuse Spirit Link at every possible chance of AoE with the littlest of scratches and theoretically have an invincible Wyvern or something...i dunno. O_o

[Lmnop]

Re: My proposal to SE.

they can't give Jumps a Stun effect. Now DRKs are out of the job. I put my money on them never ever doing something like that in spite of the fact that I've seen it suggested 13 times.

[DakAttack]

Re: My proposal to SE.

How are Drk out of a job if we can stun? Right now Drg are out of a job because we don't get to wear the Haubergeon, something as little as a stun effect on Jump isn't going to displace another job.

[Lily]

Re: My proposal to SE.

Impaction your written suggestion was well done, but I feel that you leveled your arguments, which I feel were a bit thin, at various other melee jobs, and as such I doubt SE would consider those points. It will feel like you're reaching for something, and fall into the age old ".. and they have this.. and these have that... and these have this.. and!" But for the rest of it, it was well presented. Good arguments.

I think that SE wouldn't really want to make large changes. Anything they do has to take into account the effect on the job itself, and on the other jobs.

But some ideas are really nice. Longer jump range is good. Stun effect on one of our jumps, but only as DRG main - superb idea. Ability to command our wyvern to attack our target ala BST+SMN, would be great. I guess you'd have to throw in a Heel command too, and you could make the Fight command have a larger reuse timer than 15 seconds (which is what bst is), so you'd have to think about its use in a situational manner.

The equipment argument is reasonably valid, because we do seem to wear such a hotchpotch of mixed gear, but I don't know if it will mean we'll get some dedicated gear eventually.

I think the main thing would be adding some interactivity to the wyvern, like the Fight/Heel command above, or extending its survivability in some way. Spirit Link is very cool. I'd love *more* like that. A lvl 60 active ability with a 5 min timer that gave the wyvern a berserk effect for 3 mins if you had an Offensive wyvern, etc. Or a lvl 60 ability with some form of timer that made the wyvern cast regen or cures randomly, if you had a defensive wyvern. That sort of thing.

[fuz]

Re: My proposal to SE.

They should add a JA called Dragonheart that sets our 2hr timer to 0:00.00. Currently drg's 2hr, when dismissed and called again resets the 2hr to 2:00.00, which really sucks.

So when constantly dismissing and calling, the 2hr never really has a chance to reset itself to 0:00 to be used if the wyvern accidentaly dies, or is dismissed at less than 100%HP. This would also go a long way to making a drg/mage more acceptable since the wyvern would be a more permanent member. It also helps the ballista situation so that a wyvern death won't crippple a drg if he decides to go lfg afterwards. (No other job is required to have their 2hr ready for PTing).

Having this JA at say, lvl 40 or 50 with a 2hr recast works fine.

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: My proposal to SE.

I used to come up with ideas for Drg all the time, and for the same reason that Impaction did, because 4 hrs spent writing about Drg is more interesting then 4 hrs of getting regected from parties.

I think the whole Drg need lighter equiptment to jump bit is stupid, wearing lighter armor doesn't allow you to jump 50 or 100 feet in the air, and hover around for a bit on super jumps, it is thier extreme leg strength, and a bit of magic. The old school Drg used to wear a shield with thier lance, and the heaviest armor, and they jumped every move. Well they traded the invincible jumps of the old drg for a wyvern, honestly, Drg has never been weaker then it is in FFXI.

A man wearing gym shorts can't jump 50 feet in the air, Drgs use a kind of magic or super strength to jump that high, and thier armors wieght isn't a legitimate factor in thier ability to jump. Like the OP says, other classes can use jumps with Drg sub, and whatever armor, why can't the class that owns jump do so?

As for defense, being able to drop some hate is a very poor defense. First of all, your not helping defend, you just keeping your weak hide safe. Second, Drg is considered most useful when trading hate for thief tactics, so they are expected to get hit occasionally, and contrary to popular belief, just about every other DD can do it just as well, you don't have to drop hate after the thief does SATA onto the tank, it is better to deal alot of damage and provoke to gain hate so the SATA can be done on the tank, rather than do the SATA on the Drg and lose some of the hate. And third, the wyvern is required to keep acceptable damage margins in most circumstances, the wyvern effectively doubles the damage a Drg takes from AOE, this means the amount of damage avoided by losing agro simply countered by the amount of damage a Drg takes in whole with his wyvern from any AOE attack.

Basicly what you have here is less defense, an avoidance technique, and a handicap to AOE which completly counters the advantage of avoiding damage. Super Jump and Spirit Link together can't compare to the amount of AOE many enemies put out toward the end of the game, and yet he still has less defense then many of the DD classes, actually, last time I played, the Drg AF had less armor then the DAMN MAGES! WTF is that about?

Drg should be able to wear the exact same armor as a Drk, even with that armor they will generally take more damage then the Drk because of the AOE damage they recieve in double against enemies later in the game. It wouldn't be a balance destroying trait if the Drg could even have a trait which allowed him to use a shield with his lance, but that doesn't help half as much as it would get regected, so who cares.

A Drg shouldn't have to rely on his weakling wyvern to pull, this would just get the wyvern killed in one or 2 hits on complicated or long pulls, a Drg should be able to jump full range, this is simply a tactical addition giving Drg a decent pulling capability, no reason not to, it is seriously gimping to be the only class in the game without a decent pulling technique.

With of without the change in armor class, the Drg should get traits which reduce the AOE damage the Wyvern takes, 25% for 1 and 50% for the second, at lvl 50 and 75. The Wyvern basicly keeps the Drg at par or better at damaging compared to Drk or Sam, but having your Wyvern rended useless in HNM and any critical fight puts you at a close last, if your a great player. The Drg gets 1 attack boost and 1 acc boost compared to the 3 and 4 boosts most classes get, and the attack boost doesn't stack with the first attack boost of warrior or Drk class. A Drk gets 4 attack boosts, the Drg should have 2 traits which help reduce AOE damage on the wyvern so they only take 1 serving of AOE for themselves, and 3/4 to 1/2 serving of AOE for thier wyvern, keep in mind, the wyvern has half the health you do, so they would effectively be losing about the same ratio of health as thier Drg even with the AOE halved.

And the Drg could stand to get one more Jump by the end of the game, at 65-75, not because they need more damage, but because 2 jumps and a WS get realy boring.

I don't think Drgs can't compete or don't serve, I think they have crappy tactical assets for normal parties, and they take even more damage then they put out even when they are not getting agro against AOE spammers. Being able to use thier jump at range every 1.5 minutes and reducing the excess AOE they take are simple ways to improve Drg, but would make a massive improvement to the usefullness they have in a party. As for armor, it could be addressed alot of different ways, but unless Drgs suddenly get the ability to put armor on our wyvern, then Drg shouldn't have a smaller selection of armor for themselves.

On the side, the use of Drg as a mage is an interesting benefit that makes Drg unique, but this is a technique that doesn't work unless you have advanced teammates and cooperation, and it requires the use of a weaker sub, wheras classes like Pld and Drk can effectively use magic without a required sub. So trying to bank on thier unique and very secluded special doesn't justify the overall lack of defense the Drg has.

Having specials that arn't effective in pick-up parties isn't much of an asset, and having more Dot at the cost of taking more damage isn't either. Alot of players have come to this golden conclusion that because Drg can put out more passive damage during a battle that they are somehow balanced. Let me tell you something, all those other DD are bringing more to the table then damage, and often cause just as much damage through better combinations. Being able to assign agression to a target wile doing massive spike damage is an amazing asset, being able to SC with anyone and everyone produces excess damage on MB and enhances the damage of others WS, being able to hit extremely hard on SC and increase the effectiveness of a MB as well as rob the enemy of thier attack or defense increases the damage for everyone or reduces the damage the enemy does. A normal Drg does nothing but damage, it isn't some ultimate balancing excuse that they may do a little more damage over time, they don't do anything else. Being able to pull like everyone else, being able to withstand AOE, being able to take a hit instead of chicken thier way out of agression are all factors that should be addressed in order to balance the effectiveness that other classes have. The effectiveness of being able to do more damage then a Drg without his Wyvern, being able to defend better, provide more effective combinations, and provide party friendly attacks and debuffs, and pull, is alot more then a few more points of damage can compensate for. A Drg should be able to resist "some" AOE damage taken on thier wyvern, be able to pull for the party with an acceptable technique, and perhaps even have better defense themselves.

[DakAttack]

Re: My proposal to SE.

Giving Jump a longer range would give us an advantage in pulling NMs and such. To balance that I suppose we'd have to go through an aiming process like Rangers or anybody else using a ranged weapon that could differ depending on the distance from the monster. Or we could keep a large range and instant pull and suddenly be a little bit more useful?

[Bahamut Kaiser]

Re: My proposal to SE.

Not true at all, provoke is still the fastest pull, and very important, jump is a 1.5 minutes skill, it isn't a readily available pull technique like Arrows or even pebbles. Even If you had full range on Jump and High Jump, you would still run into the chance that it would not be available, or you would be holding your Jump for pulls and long battles.

Aside from that, Drg is the only class with a pet that eternally blocks his retreat, which is another snare against a pulling Drg.

Quite honestly, Being able to Jump at full range makes sense, it is naturally easier for a human to jump horizontally rather then vertically. In high school I tried long jump once, and made 13 feet in distance, the best basketball players in the world don't get more then 5 feet of vertical air (tucking your legs doesn't count). Why is it that a Drg can jump dozens of feet into the air and only 3 feet forward?

Compared to the Jump with stun idea, it is way less effective..... I mean honestly, what is more effective?, Jumping further, or Stunning on Jump?, Jumping further has no tactical advantage outside of pulling or chasing.

Drg have been Gimped in the Pulling department since the begining of the game, if they get an effective and useful pulling option at this point, it only repays the disability they have been subject to this far. Also, Jumps suffer from a momentary pause on landing, which, further impares them from pulling with Jump. Even at maximum attack range, using jump to pull would most likely involve getting caught by a strike or 2 on return, because of the landing pause and the wyvern in the way.

Could it make Drg a better puller in certain situations?, yes. Is it the ultimate pulling technique?, not by a long shot (referance summoners for examples), is lack of pulling option a serious dissability to a DD class?, yes. The Jump is the Jump, it's isn't actually a ranged attack, it is a mobile assault, your character Jumps toward the target, he doesn't throw something at it, the original strengths to Jump is that it can be used on the fly (and you literally fly), if any kind of damage or accuracy effectiveness were to be added to Jump, even as a byproduct of having longer jumps, it should be a loss of accuracy if your not facing the target, persay running away and jumping.

Right now your current option is pebbles, which are the most pathetic addition possible to cover the lack of ranged attack with Drg. The suggestion you came up with for pulling, the ranged wyvern attack, only exposes the least defended target in your party, the wyvern. The idea for a stun on a jump is seriously more overpowering then the idea to have a tactical advantage of range. And the only other good idea for a pulling technique for Drg is throwing Javalins, which would require Ranged items, or involve some fake version of throwing your lance and recovering it, which is less realistic then just jumping further like the old school Drgs did.

You can decide whether you like it or not, or whether you think it deserves some sort of nerf. But the Drg can't suffer a nerf, it's reputation is already screwed, and the idea for added range capacity on Jump is alot more sound then any other idea, and much simpler and easier to add then Javalin throwing animations and items. Simple and efficient, why try otherwise?

(Edit)
I can see what your saying about getting the drop on NM effectively, even if it isn't as good as provoke, it would be the fastest damaging pull technique. But last time I heard, Drg were also the little desired in Boss and BCNMs, it is entirely fair if they have a drop on roaming NMs.

Faster Pulling techniques are Provoke, and Rdm 2 hr with dia. Heaven help us if the Drg compeate with other classes for first pull on a heavily camped HNM, last time I checked, any class can sub Drg for Jump at lvl 20, sound like a significant reason to sub Drg too?