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  • My proposal to SE.

    I will submit this proposal to Square Enix through their suggestion system. During the NY event they mentioned it several times, and if they take it as seriously as they claim maybe we'll see some progress. I would like to know what you guys think before I send it in. Please feel free to offer your own suggestions, which I'll take into consideration before adding them in. I'll post a final copy for others to read and send in as well if they so choose. Couldn't hurt >_>



    While it's true that the Dragoons' reputation seems to have been etched in stone, recently this etching has started to wash away like paint. Ever since the Rangers were brought down a peg there have been severel new Dragoons popping up all over the place. In reality the Dragoon is far from broken, which players will notice as they level, but it does struggle from severe neglect at certain key points. One of my main issues with the Dragoon is their lack of available equipment which only becomes more evident as I progress, shadowed by our functionality in a party.

    From what I understand Dragoons are restricted to lighter equipment so that they can Jump during battle. What I don't understand is that a Warrior wearing the full Iron Musketeers set that subs Dragoon CAN Jump, even with heavy armor weighing him down. I might be missing something such as a penalty to Jump damage while subbing Dragoon, but it doesn't seem like they should have the ability to jump at all.

    Equipment is pretty by the books as you start leveling. Brass, to leather, to scale, to bone, to lizard, to beetle, and then it begins to become hazy. At level twenty-one our next armor set is at level twenty-seven, then thirty, then our sets are spaced across level thirty to fifty. I'm mostly concerned with level thirty and up because that's when the sets start to become diverse. Dragoons are offered second-rate equipment, often with nothing but Defense. The level thirty-four sets can be considered an exception, but they're subject to conquest which is never reliable. Volans Greaves were recently added, which Dragoons feel is a step in the right direction, but most of our problems lie at level fifty-nine.

    I hate to compare Dragoons to other jobs, but that's basically what happens when a party forms. When you take equipment into consideration there's really no reason to choose Dragoons. Dark Knights are offered chainmail at level twnety-four, which offers more defense in case of emergencies. At twenty-nine Warriors are offered the Eisen sets that greatly increases their ability to tank, and overall ability to deal damage. Skip to level forty where Warriors, Dark Knights, and Paladins have access to certain pieces of iron Musketeer's set and Royal Squire's set. All of these pieces contribute valuable stats that few jobs can take advantage of. Monks, Samurais, and Ninjas have already had access to Ochiudo's Kote, Fuma Kyahn, and a Gi that offers four accuracy. Dragoons are stuck with an iron set, or the level thirty-four sets if Conquest permits.

    Through level forty to fifty there isn't much to choose from, but towards level fifty several pieces of JSE appear for jobs including Thief, Ninja, and one or two others. By level fifty Dragoons are wearing Battle Gloves(Lv13), Brigindine(Lv45), Walkure(Lv43), Jaeger Mantle(Lv47), Volans Greave(Lv36), Sniper Rings(Lv40), and a Spike Necklace(Lv21). That's all subject to the availability of funds of course. Now that may seem fine, which it is for the most part, but it doesn't offer the defense we need when we happen to pull hate. Other jobs recieve great bonuses to stats while not having to sacrifice defense. From level fifty up we're generally better off wearing our full AF, while switching the Walkure Mask in and out with the Drachen Armet for weapon skills. Unfortunately what I find shocking is how useless the AF is compared to other armor, as well as other jobs' AF. Compared to our most notable competition, the Dark Knight, our AF offers bonuses that I would see as equal, but our armor offers far less defense. The Drachen Mail's regenerative effect is slightly useful, and the Drachen Brais's HP+10% often results in me having to wait for Call Wyvern to cooldown when something goes wrong directly after I summon it.

    My biggest problem with equipment is the Haubergeon. Obviously this was not meant to be obtainable by every single person and their mother, but due to the RMT it's a dream we all can afford to live job permitting. We have to face the fact that every player that can use this armor will obtain it, so the jobs that can't use it (Thief and Dragoon) are at a serious disadvantage here. Thieves are at less of a disadvantage due to their uses in a party which I will outline later, but an equivilant piece of armor just as "hard" to obtain would do Dragoons a wonder. The only time a Dragoon can compete with somebody wearing a Haubergeon is in Bibiki Bay fighting birds for the 25% damage bonus, which isn't exactly a player friendly camp and wouldn't support more than two parties.

    At level sixty-seven most of our problems are solved if we can obtain an Assault Jerkin, but if you ask me it's pretty ugly. It's functionality is outstanding, and at level seventy we have access to the Barone set. Beyond that we can equip pieces of Relic Armor, Hecatomb, and various other sets. No problem there. The problem is actually getting there. Why invite a Dragoon when there's another job out there seeking that has a Haubergeon? We offer nothing but damage over time, along with a moderately strong weapon skill. Our wyvern enhances both but only slightly, and is constantly threatened by area effecting attacks. If we had a piece of equipment that could help us compete with other damage dealing jobs beyond level fifty we'd have almost no gripes left to gripe about!

    My next issue, which is a little less important than equipment, is our functionality in a party. Our innate job traits enhance our overall damage over time performance, but that's something any other job can compete with once they've obtained a Haubergeon. Our abilities include various jumps, one that deals damage, one that deals less damage but clears a bit of hate, and one that deals no damage and clears all of our hate. The abilities that deal damage are subject to accuracy, but they're all fairly useful. Let's compare that to Dark Knights. Dark Knights can deal just as much damage as us with a Haubergeon/Hauberk, as well as Stun, and Abosrb stats making it easier on the party overall. The most I can do when a goblin uses Bomb Toss is Super Jump to avoid damage, but a Dark Knight can stun the toss and save the whole party the damage. This applies to anything that casts an area effecting attack. Thieves are used to center hate on the tank, and when used in conjunction with Dragoons can be a pretty awesome team, but that's if the Dragoon is invited. Monks can gain TP fairly quickly and have hard hitting, multi-hit weapon skills, which are enhanced by their Focus ability. Monks can't use Haubergeon, but by level fifty-nine will have Ochiudo's Kote as well as a lot of haste bonus from equipment and job traits. Samurai can throw out a weapon skill every few minutes along with healthy damage over time.

    These are basically all my gripes concerning Dragoon, and the way I see it our only problems. A few minor problems, such as Wyvern survivability, and our ability to fight HNMs will be suggested upon as well as my earlier points. I understand the developers are trying to create a sense of companionship and reliability between the Dragoon and his Wyvern, and I think my suggestions preserve that. Thank you for taking the time to read over and consider my suggestions.

    Suggestions:

    1) Level forty-five hand equipement that enhances our weapon skill accuracy. This will do wonders for Penta Thrust's potential without overpowering it.

    2) A chest piece for level fifty-five to sixty that offers something equal to what Haubergeon offers while being just as costly to obtain.

    3) A set of passive abilities that enchance Jump abilities by increments of 5%, and a total of three traits at level fifteen, forty-five, and sixty-five.

    4) A pet ability High Climb for the wyverns on a seperate timer than High Jump, with a cooldown similar to Jump. High Climb would allow the Wyvern to avoid damage while Dragoon would still recieve it. This would open up a few more oppotunities during the end of the game where hunting HNMs and completing Dynamis become usual pass times.

    5) A passive trait that enhances our Dragon Killer and Ancient Circle effects by 50% at level sixty or seventy to help us become more useful in slaying certain HNMs.

    6) A pet ability Fast Dive that does possible damage +10% which would allow us to pull using our Wyverns. Pulling using pebbles is pathetic, and other throwing items are rarely stocked and cost outrageous prices. Essentially the Wyvern would quickly attack the target once then return to the Dragoon so that they can return to the party with the monster. This could be used in conjuction with High Climb and give Dragoons a whole new use in a party.

    7) Possible ranged ammunition claws for the Wyvern's Fast Dive.
    Last edited by Impaction; 08-28-2005, 11:54 AM.

  • #2
    Re: My proposal to SE.

    not for nothing but..umm....they'll probably tell you "You have 2 much time on your hands son"

    Take The quiz yourself!









    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My proposal to SE.

      It's called seeking for a party.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My proposal to SE.

        All good up until you start making suggestions. I would actually try things along the lines of what S-E already has in place. For instance, there were one or two new items grouped as. . . PLD/DRG/SAM if I remember correctly. Additions of focused equipment like this would be great as it would allow other jobs to take advantage of a bonus, perhaps even making DRG a more acceptable sub. Otherwise I agree with increasing our selections as far as armor is concerned. I also like the idea behind more WS ACC/ATK giving us a tad bit more power where people will notice it.

        More of a sidethought, but. . . I doubt a Dragon Killer/Circle bonus would be approved unless all jobs got the bonus. S-E does try for equality and symmetry.

        I think another good point would be in enhancing the DRG's usefulness in the abscence of the wyvern--in addition to enhancing the wyvern's lifespan and durability. As a natural extension of this is DRG's untapped potential in the area of subjob versatility. DRG is really the best candidate for the "no wrong sub" that idealists proclaim to the naysayers. By exploiting this, S-E would be able to enhance the wyvern's functionality, increase the DRG's functionality separate from the wyvern, and make a DRG a more unique and desirable addition to a party.

        In short, from my experience, and hearing from others, DRG really needs 3 things:
        1) More equipment with stat adjustments. This comes in three flavors--similar to what other jobs get at that level, unique options like WS/Jump ATK/ACC, and wyvern bonuses.
        2) Make the wyvern more useful. This refers to three aspects--it needs to live longer, do more things, and react to the entire party (not just the DRG).
        3)We need to be more unique, especially as we get higher in levels. Options that S-E already has open to them is through Jump, i.e. can stun as DRG main, subjob versatility/bonuses, and the level 60 passive traits a few other jobs have gotten recently.

        Here's a couple ideas floating around in my head. Since S-E doesn't seem to want to make the wyvern as much a pet as a NPC, it would make sense to limit commands to a Retreat ability where it leaves (avoiding damage) and regenerates some HP before returning. In exchange for a longer life, it is out of battle for a period of time. Another benefit useful to wyverns would be to increase their ability by giving them a specific ability based on your subjob, not just which category, but a bonus specific to that sub. Also a bonus would do well to be applied to the DRG both for category and specifically. For instance, a small MP boost for classes that provide MP. Finally, a level 60 ability to further define DRG would be useful, especially for endgame activities. Another for instance would be a passive Jump ability which essentially becomes a % bonus to critical hits (replacing them with a jump animation) and a ACC bonus to jump attacks. Something like this would have tiny ramifications in timed jumps, weapon skills, normal ACC, and in TP gain; but it would add up to a noticeable difference in events like HNM, where you land more hits than most melee and more often a critical hit.

        Well, you can take that last paragraph with a grain of salt, but I think it gives a good example of how small changes can work together to radically transform DRG's abilities. And no, a passive Jump like I described wouldn't be broken, it would just be a low % modifier.
        4 out of 3 people have a problem with fractions. . .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My proposal to SE.

          Originally posted by Balodoth
          All good up until you start making suggestions. I would actually try things along the lines of what S-E already has in place. For instance, there were one or two new items grouped as. . . PLD/DRG/SAM if I remember correctly. Additions of focused equipment like this would be great as it would allow other jobs to take advantage of a bonus, perhaps even making DRG a more acceptable sub. Otherwise I agree with increasing our selections as far as armor is concerned. I also like the idea behind more WS ACC/ATK giving us a tad bit more power where people will notice it.
          Couple things here. One, Dragoon is one of the only jobs (or THE only job) that gets an Accuracy Bonus passive trait. I believe that already fulfills the WS ACC.

          I'm not all that sure what level range you're speaking of when you talk of the equipment, unless you're taking it in the context of Impaction...but I agree. Dragoons could use a diversity of equipment through 30-60.

          As for the DRG becoming a sub, do you mean something as in WAR/DRG? Or DRG as a sub for another job in the party? Remember, /DRG doesn't get the wyvern....so any true bonuses would be seriously hampered.

          Originally posted by Balodoth
          More of a sidethought, but. . . I doubt a Dragon Killer/Circle bonus would be approved unless all jobs got the bonus. S-E does try for equality and symmetry.
          Ancient Circle and Dragon Killer are technically DRG only traits. No other job gets them at all, unless they equip Tatami Shield or Hrotti....both which give innate Dragon Killer traits. So I think it would actually be pretty fair for them to strengthen it, as its one specific to the DRG job.

          Hell, even with the normal traits and ability we have now I managed to intimidate Tiamat and Jormungand. Those are the most powerful mobs in the game, if not only Dragon wise but server wise. I intimidate Seiryu so much on sky runs that I have to resort to losing measures because so much is on me because of intimidation.

          ----

          I agree wholeheartedly with enhancing the Wyverns longetivity and usefulness, and S-E has already made fast improvements into this. Spirit Link, which gives some of your HP to heal your wyvern, is the primary one. Many "Ammo" type attributes and equip also exist. I have a pair of boots that give my Wyvern Stoneskin thanks to the enchantment on them. There is an Ammo item called "Wyvern Feed" that either heals the wyvern or enhances its attack. So S-E is indeed making steps in the right direction...it just takes time.

          Much of what you said was good, though some of the things S-E has already done to a degree such as what I stated above. Equipment is the main issue. Long have I wished I could use the Thick set, or a Core. S-E needs to address these issues if it wishes to take DRG seriously. Enhancing the wyvern is wonderful, but its a lopsided attempt...to fix one problem but not the other. Most people if not all in FFXI have never even considered the wyvern for damage. The usual "I did more damage then you, said the DRK to the DRG" and vice versa could be stated, because the wyverns damage wasn't even figured into the calculations.

          -------------

          ALL of what was said above is perfect. S-E is slowly (VERY slowly) but surely coming around to setting DRG up to a passable job in party. With RNGs now seriously hampered, it is easy to say that DRG and DRK can deal damage equal to RNGs now on a consistent basis (I've equaled some RNGs already before the update)...which greatly enhance party expectations and overall judgement of people towards the DRG job.


          Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My proposal to SE.

            ok first off, when Baladoth mentioned the ancient circle/dragon killer thing, he meant other jobs have other killers. If you give drg an enhancement to dragon killer, you have to give samurai an enhancement to their demon killer. And while you're at it, the beastmasters will want an enhancement to all their other killers.

            Also, while Dragoons have an accuracy bonus, Rangers have 4.
            I'd like to see something unique for 'goons post 60. other than resists and killer traits/abilities which I ignore, dragoon gets 2 traits, and 4 job abilities. last trait being at a whomping 30 and last JA at 50 or whatever it is for super jump.

            As for Impaction's equip list, I'd say it's fairly accurate. In my eyes though, I think dragoon needs any sort of DD armor between 50 and 60. I don't really care at this point for it to be Haub power... for now I just want to see something better than the Brigandine that's not a SH of stupid-ness. I really wish Dragoons could wear Byrnie because I think it has Drg written all over it. High Defense and hp/Vit bonus for when you get hate and Str and loads of attack which seems to do so well for 2-handers. Well anyway, I guess I feel that Dragoons need something cool and it needs to be a body piece or... anything but feet. That leads me to my next point.

            I can't believe more of you aren't complaining about the poor poor Dragoon AF/Relic armor. I guess if they did more for Wyvern survivability (I think they should just take half damage from AoE and be done with it... oh and Wyvern feed for insta-cure would be sweet, with Spirit Link for during cooldown) then the "enhances Wyvern accuracy" or "gives Wyvern 'Regen'" would seem more useful to me. But honestly, Dark Knight and Dragoon have THE. WORST. ARTIFACT. ARMOR. Of DRG AF, only piece I'm satisfied with is the feet... and I think that's only worth macro'ing in for jumps.

            You shouldn't be making too many comparisons to Dark Knights because I feel they're the next worse-off class. Dark Knights know they can't keep up with a DRG if the wyvern's there... at least the ones on the boards. But you are definately right. They dish out the damage (I won't say better, but they can keep up and hold their own) but they also have so much more to offer the party. Same deal with Samurai which S-E has given so much loving to recently.

            You also left monk out of jobs who can't equip haub, but of course they do get Kote... which I'm of the belief that their AF hands beat out anyway so that's one point for them...

            S-E will never put in abilities/traits for every single subjob. Just think about it rationally for one second. If they did it for DRG, they'd have to put that much time into every other job. It's not something they'll do and it's not something I'd care to see. Though I could see them effectively giving your wyvern your subjob as far as traits are concerned. That would make some subs more useful than other's but that's how this game is. They won't break that rule for one job.

            the thing about jump as a subjob doesn't really need to be in there since it doesn't go anywhere. Unless you add on to say that for this reason, you think dragoon should be able to wear heavier armor. Of course, every job that wears heavier armor than DRG also has a higher STR score... except ninja but we all know ninjas are S-Es pets.

            Eisen doesn't give any offensive stats, though you're technically right considering that with their higher defense (w/out any offensive alternatives at that level), WAR has more room to use berserk and generally not care about their own standing.

            The thing about the hand armor that increases WS accuracy... the only thing bad about this is that there are already far too many 'goons who whine when they have to open disto again and want to solo penta thrust. Too many "oops, hit the wrong macro" or "I had 110% tp and you had 80, so I soloed penta" to trust gloves like that.

            One more thing... about pulling. That'd be fantastic if they also moved a decent Polearm weapon skill into th SC slot that opens for fusion solving the monk and dragoon problems simultaneously.... well, if we could find more places to level with stuff weak to fusion other than evil evil bones.
            Ok, I'ma go take my final now. buh bye.
            "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My proposal to SE.

              Impaction you going to take that from a level 23?

              Another suggestion that would shape DRGs is giving them a lot of Battery/Hydro/Fan based spears that ignore defense, ie=HNM and undead owner.

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              • #8
                Re: My proposal to SE.

                You have phailed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My proposal to SE.

                  Originally posted by Blood Red Poet
                  Impaction you going to take that from a level 23?

                  Another suggestion that would shape DRGs is giving them a lot of Battery/Hydro/Fan based spears that ignore defense, ie=HNM and undead owner.
                  Lol, that's what the wyvern does. Ignores def like the addional effect procs, and the wyvern is blunt based, so it owns bones and pots. (if it survives the AoEs).

                  Staff opens up fusion with full swing. Wheeling for light. Now if they would only give drg a better staff skill rating and more selections, a drg could be very proficient in using them. Maybe make a whole new weapon line of 2h hammers/maces or something within the staff weapon line.

                  What I want for drg is a little odd, but increasing jump range out to the same max as ranged/magical attacks would help in a few situations. Can jump sooner from a mob pull so you have time to pull your weapon out. Also it's a similar concept to pre-charging SA, so that you can get an extra jump in a battle by using it sooner. It also works as better support for ballista, sniping people with jumps from far away, interupting casters, nailing that sprinter to the rook. :D Keeps the drg out of AoE range for SA+jumps on HNMs, makes it easier to pull... yadda yadda yadda...

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                  • #10
                    Re: My proposal to SE.

                    Oh, and if they gave wyverns like -80% dmg taking from AoE would be nice .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My proposal to SE.

                      i dont see why drgs complain that they cant wear Haubergeon.
                      guys you can wear scorpion harness !
                      the added atk from the haubergeon roughly makes a difference that level which you could compensate with atk+ equip in other slots.
                      with sushi and accuracy job trait and scorpion harness good drgs miss like never so you can focus on atk and str+ in all slot other meeles had to go for acc.
                      if DRG could wear Haubergeon that would be kinda overpowerd.

                      CoP=Complete RoZ=Complete ToAU=Mission 8
                      Blade:Jin, a wicked badass 3-fold skill that totally outparses ridill WARs and Blackbelt monks and averages 700-1300.

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                      • #12
                        Re: My proposal to SE.

                        It could be that Scorp Harness may cost more on their servers than Haubergeon. It does on my server.

                        Title: Sergeant Major
                        SAM75, RNG75, PUP75, PLD60, My NPC65
                        Bastok Rank 10, San d'Oria Rank 10, Windurst Rank 10
                        Missions: Completed/Zilart Completed/CoP Completed/ToAU: Playing the Part-Sergeant Major
                        Midgardsormr|Cactuar (MNK51)

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                        • #13
                          Re: My proposal to SE.

                          7mil on Seraph for Acc+10 and Evasion+10. 4mil for Str+5, Dex+5, Atk+10, Acc+10, etc. The harness wouldn't cost that much if people didn't gouge the prices for the venomous claw.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My proposal to SE.

                            On my server SH costs between 6-8mil, +1 above 15mil. I had an SH once. Used it a few times, then sold it in favor of other equip. Why?

                            Because there is such a thing as too much Accuracy. I ended up having +60 accuracy, and even with the SH I missed a few times. I took the SH off and slid on my other body piece, which is Vishnu's Vest. The difference in hitting? Maybe one more miss. As a higher lvl, I am focused more on +STR rather then +Acc. Vishnus has +6 acc, +4 STR, +4 VIT and +evas. I'd call it a poor mans SH, for lvl 74. It works better in my opinion, because of the +STR. I have my equipment setup in the link above my banner. I hit 85%-90% of the time, and for more then if I had focused on SH or +acc.

                            +Acc only works if you have equivilant +DEX, which would raise the max cap accuracy so the extra accuracy would actually WORK. I've seen DRGs with high accuracy whiff sometimes 3-4 times in a row, even with SH on. ACC is nothing without subsequent +DEX.

                            ----

                            Some lances already have the added effect going for it, like the Narval (Added effect: Water damage vs Undead). The downside to these is that usually most of these lances are 60+, and as they are Rare/Ex you need to fight the NM for it. More of the ammo slot lances would be good, as long as the cost for both them and the fans/water/etc isn't incredibly high...sort of like shurikens for NINs.

                            As for Staff, well, I have a Bourdanasse. So I tend to use that if I'm in a KRT party rather then a staff. If the party asks it however, I do switch to staff....since I have it leveled fully and have arguably one of the best staffs in the game (Kinkobo/Primate). But thing is, Bourdanasse is lvl 70, and Heavy Lance is lvl 60. Again, both 60+ and not easy to come by...at least the heavy lance.

                            ----

                            Increasing the Jump range is something I have wished for ever since I picked up DRG. You would think that, seeing as the DRG is fabled for its high distance Jumps, it would go more then just a few feet then its original position. You're telling me that a DRG can jump umpteen feet vertically in the air, but can only move a few feet horizontally? Come on now, thats just stupid.

                            If they were to extend the jump range to what was said above, it would give DRG viable capability as pullers. Hell, to that matter, they should give use some ranged items too. A DRG only bow, that has special effects on Dragons or something. ONE bow would be nice, of any kind and any shape. Just having it would be a boon, as it could open up new areas for the DRG (DRG/RNG. Sidewinder spam anyone?). Ranged attack, plus regular attack, PLUS the instant TP gain of 24% TP from jumps would be an instant winner...Though I am sure the world would explode, purple pigs with wings would fly and ever person on the planet would scream y at it somehow being unfair.

                            But a person can dream can't he?


                            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My proposal to SE.

                              i got my first SH from Operation Desert swarm.
                              on our server we have a LS of BLMs doing it every thursday.
                              you bring the seals, they burn the scorps.
                              invest 90KS and you have a good chance to get a V-claw

                              CoP=Complete RoZ=Complete ToAU=Mission 8
                              Blade:Jin, a wicked badass 3-fold skill that totally outparses ridill WARs and Blackbelt monks and averages 700-1300.

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