Drg/Mnk

[Auron517]

I plan on becoming a Dragoon in the future, and the other day, I was thinking about the subs for it. I've seen Drg/War, Drg/Whm/ Drg/Rdm/ Drg/Sam, I even saw a thread a while ago discussing Drg/Drk.

But I was wondering, is Drg/Mnk a viable combo? I know /Mnk gives Vit when it is subbed, but does it give strenght or accuracy or anything that would help out the Dragoon job? Also, how would Boost factor in when subbed with Dragoon?

[neighbortaru]

Re: Drg/Mnk

No it's not. It's one of those things that make people laugh at you.

[Seldzar]

Re: Drg/Mnk

Its useful for skilling up (focus and such) and maybe ballista (higher HP, vit, dodge etc), that would be about it imo...

[Auron517]

Re: Drg/Mnk

I'm sorry, but I haven't really been given a real answer on why this combo doesn't work. Instead of telling me that "It's crap and people will laugh at you."

Could somebody give me some actual reasons/examples why it won't work. I mean, I don't plan on taking Drg/Mnk to 75 or anything; How would it work pre lvl 30? Wouldn't boost be able to help on ws and jumps?

[fuz]

Re: Drg/Mnk

Because at lower levels you almost certainly need provoke to bounce hate around in a PT. Most tanks simply take excessive damage before 30, and the healers can't work fast enough (without pulling hate). This is by far the most useful thing you can provide next to damage at low levels. You also get a def passive at lvl 20 when subbing war.

Boost is extremely minor in the attack boost it gives. It is doubtful you will notice the gain--eat attack food instead. Low level melees are hideously weak against crabs without attack food. Boost also dealys your attacks when using it constantly mid-fight.

Monk sub gives no added str, just hp and vit which mean little without a means to pull hate. No accuracy boost from focus until you are a lvl 50 main job. Counter is useless unless tanking. You get subtle blow, but that's not terribly useful on a 2h weapon.

It would be more functional to sub war for backup tanking, or whm for backup healing (healing breath anyone?). Monk provides some def boosts, but virtually no offensive boost.

[Auron517]

Re: Drg/Mnk

Well, I'm not aiming to be a tank/back up tank when i'm going to be a pt. I'm pretty sure there will be another War or some other meele job to backup tank.
Also, isn't the fact that Monk gives nothing to str as a sub insignifigant, because Drg gets an early attack bonus at lvl 10?

Yes, spamming boost in the middle of battle will stop me from attacking but what about boosting before the puller brings the mob back to camp? I'm pretty sure boosting like that and eating attack food I won't be doing horribly.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Drg/Mnk

Well, I'm not aiming to be a tank/back up tank when i'm going to be a pt. I'm pretty sure there will be another War or some other meele job to backup tank.

So if everyone thinks the same way as you... War/mnk, SAM/mnk, DRG/mnk, yay! I will feel so sorry for any mage in that party.

Also, isn't the fact that Monk gives nothing to str as a sub insignifigant, because Drg gets an early attack bonus at lvl 10?

That is true. For < 30 the stats you get from subs are not terribly that great to begin with. The key is the abilites that they give. In this case, Provoke is a very important ability to have < 30.

Yes, spamming boost in the middle of battle will stop me from attacking but what about boosting before the puller brings the mob back to camp? I'm pretty sure boosting like that and eating attack food I won't be doing horribly.

Boost really isn't that hot. Sure it's better than nothing, but it's not more valueable than provoke.

[Balodoth]

Re: Drg/Mnk

This is highly dependent on the circumstances. As was already discussed, WAR gives Provoke, which is invaluable for hate control. At level 50 you get Double Attack, which is also great.

DRK offers a second ATK boost and various spells, not to mention Heal Breath.

RDM mainly provides Heal Breath for the whole party and Fast Cast so it is less intrusive to trigger. WHM also provides healing, but with a bigger mana pool and Divine Seal.

SAM enhances TP gain.

MNK provides Boost and Counter.

Now, DRK doesn't work at lower levels because you don't have the 2nd ATK boost and very little MP. 74 it can help in some situations for stun. RDM and WHM are pretty much only if the party requests/agrees. At higher levels, it allows you to solo while waiting for a party invite. SAM is used for skillchain intensive parties with good magic blasts and absolutely no hate problems.

When it comes to MNK, Boost is only once every 15 seconds, whereas WAR provides a larger boost over a period of time. In addition WAR gives you the reverse ability of increasing Defense. MNK has an accuracy ability, but DRG is the least likely melee to even need this. Counter corresponds to WAR's Double Attack. The difference is that Counter is gained sooner, but Double Attack doesn't require you to be attacked for it to trigger. Since there is no Provoke for MNK, you are less likely to gain hate, which means you are less likely to deal damage via Counter. WAR wins out for EXP purposes.

The main time that I could see MNK as being useful is when you are farming, and don't want to sub THF. You get extra HP. STR helps deal more consistent damage, and Counter helps avoid damage while providing a quicker kill. Overall, I just don't see MNK being ideal for DRG. Useful yes, but best no.

[LadyPeorth]

Re: Drg/Mnk

There's nothing wrong with a /MNK sub, but the bonuses quickly diminish once you start nearing 40.

Boost - Nice before a WS, but if you use it constantly, you slow your attack down a little bit. Adds minor hate as well which as a DD, you really don't wanna have.

Dodge - Improves Evasion. You really shouldn't need this unless you plan on getting hit

Focus - Improves accuracy. Very nice, but by far no reason to sub MNK. At the same level WAR sub gets you double attack.

Chakra - A self heal. Whether it activates healing breath or not...no idea. It's roughly 2x your vit. There is better ways to heal as this ability does have a loooong cooldown of 5 minutes. It does clear blind, poison, and paralyze though.

Warrior's bonuses of Double Attack, Berserk, and at end game Warcry just far out superior a MNK sub for DRG. You can get away with it at low levels, but when you start hitting higher, a WAR sub just completely out shines it.

[fuz]

Re: Drg/Mnk

I would actually go so far as to say that the stats you gain from your sub are totaly insignificant. Drg gets an attack bonus no matter the sub, so it matters not if you get more str from one sub or another.

The real reason for picking one sub over another is the abilities--even the passives don't always matter.

You may not want to backup tank, but it will be increasingly expected of you. At begining levels ironically, it's often more important than later levels where you will only backup tank for thfs or /thfs for a few hits.

You can not backup tank with monk sub. All you can do is try to go offensive, and the only tool you get before lvl 50 is boost. IMO, the damage that boost adds is barely noticeable, even with 10 stacked boosts, it's only on one hit that can miss. Just before a WS it adds a tiny amount more damage, but I'd be damned if you could see the difference without a log parser. Frankly, this single useful ability you get from monk sub is not enough to overcome the usefulness of provoke, or the healing breaths from a mage sub pre 30.

After lvl 30, war sub no question. Berserk is just that good. Thf sub on occasion if ending a SC with a SA+WS (very rare). Or mage sub for healing breath in PTs (or solo), which usually are not exp PTs.

[Rogan]

Re: Drg/Mnk

Drg/mnk is not a viable combo, to be honest.. just go with the recommended subjobs, so many people try to be creative when choosing a subjob but its just making them worse.. drg/war will give you berserk, double attack, and the most str (I believe), drg/thf will give you SATA to enhance weapon skills and hate, drg/sam will give you meditate and store TP for overall more weapon skills, those are the only subs i find to be even an option, except of course drg/whm or /rdm for soloing cause your wyverns healing breath. Drg/mnk offers nothing but some more HP which is useless to buff out on with any job really except maybe pld, and boost which is like someone said, unnoticeable, dodge is useless, as you dont need to evade, focus is SOMEWHAT OK but drg already get an accuracy bonus so it would be pretty useless and not worth choosing over /war or /thf

[Auron517]

Re: Drg/Mnk

There's nothing wrong with a /MNK sub, but the bonuses quickly diminish once you start nearing 40.

You can get away with it at low levels, but when you start hitting higher, a WAR sub just completely out shines it.

This is my main reason for asking about Drg/Mnk. I never said Monk was going to outdo Warrior at later levels. My sole purpose for wanting to go with a monk sub is to be different or difference's sake. There seems to be no fun walking around as another player in the Drg/War crowd.

Especially when (from what i've read) that the only thing that Warrior provides at those levels (10-20) is provoke, which is not needed if the party has a skilled Player tanking and a back up to help him out. So why not sub Monk when I would do just as good as someone with a War sub, excluding my loss of provoke?

[neighbortaru]

Re: Drg/Mnk

This is my main reason for asking about Drg/Mnk. I never said Monk was going to outdo Warrior at later levels. My sole purpose for wanting to go with a monk sub is to be different or difference's sake. There seems to be no fun walking around as another player in the Drg/War crowd.

This is really not a good reason. btw, it's not particularly fun either to be the only DRG not getting a PT invite.

Especially when (from what i've read) that the only thing that Warrior provides at those levels (10-20) is provoke, which is not needed if the party has a skilled Player tanking and a back up to help him out. So why not sub Monk when I would do just as good as someone with a War sub, excluding my loss of provoke?

Because sometimes, the ability to provoke is what will get you a PT invite. Imagine the scenario. An established PT with 5 ppl, NIN tank and maybe a THF/war or RNG/war as the other DD. You honestly think a leader (with half a clue) will invite you into that party?

[lionx]

Re: Drg/Mnk

Because i would rather invite someone that has that Provoke option availible over someone that cannot. Frankly i feel WAR sub for DRG is good all the way to 75 past lvl 10 soloing. You might not always have a subtank, and if you have a NIN tank and some subless person that isnt a WAR, then what? Let the NIN die(especially with their fickle armor at that level and HP)? You want to keep your options open and i like to keep my party as good as it can be, and a WAR sub provides that...i would rather invite someone else if you cant provoke at that level because at the beginning, i feel Provoke is just that good and crucial.

Sometimes i invite a MNK/WAR and not the MNK subless is just BECAUSE he can Provoke and offer that safety.

[Auron517]

Re: Drg/Mnk

I think my entire point of my last post was just ignored.

I know and accept that, if I sub Monk, that I will be missing out on Provoke. I honestly don't see a problem with it. I can accept the consequences that I may not get an invite to a party, simply because I lack /war, which is fine in my opinion. As long as I am in a party with a Tank and a backup, my sub choice is fine.

Sure, I'll may be passed on some pt invites, and I eventually have to put away my monk sub, this is fine with me. Atleast I'll have fun playing the game, albeit a bit differently, which is what this game is supposed to be about.