SE and the Dragoons

[Balodoth]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

Hmmm, I'm torn on that one. Afterall, who wouldn't like to design their favorite job?

[Cryxen]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

what i think every1 isn't thinking about is not how to improve dragoon through wyvern but how to improve dragoon through dragoon

[Kagerou]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

Cryxen, ur right. Drgs need Job abilities that distinguish themselves from other DDs at endgame, but the fact is the job is "Dragoon." Its natural that everyone wants to distinguish themselves by their wyverns than the character themselves.

[lionx]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

But i think the entire point of SE putting the recent updates that involve the Wyvern itself means that Dragoon itself includes the Wyvern. By enhancing the Wyvern we enhance the DRG as well, they are mutual..at least thats the current target that SE seems to indicate. Plus what Job Ability would work? I would think a Stun Jump but thats it..or a Hate Erase Jump that you can take the person in front of you hate away along with yours? O_o

[Balodoth]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

Well, Kagerou, that goes without saying. The question is, what does S-E think? All updates I can remember have been centered on the wyvern. Remember, this is not a pet. You have one pet command. This is an extension of your character. It acts according to what you do, so, in effect, you are the wyvern.

However, I do feel impelled to agree on the basis of subjob functionality. While making the wyvern better makes the DRG better, it does nothing for /DRG. If only S-E would make our 2-hr like everyone else's and give us the power normally given our wyvern, we could focus on making DRG useful as a subjob as well.

[Kagerou]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

Well, Kagerou, that goes without saying. The question is, what does S-E think? All updates I can remember have been centered on the wyvern. Remember, this is not a pet. You have one pet command. This is an extension of your character. It acts according to what you do, so, in effect, you are the wyvern.

However, I do feel impelled to agree on the basis of subjob functionality. While making the wyvern better makes the DRG better, it does nothing for /DRG. If only S-E would make our 2-hr like everyone else's and give us the power normally given our wyvern, we could focus on making DRG useful as a subjob as well.

Unfortunately, Drgs and Wyverns aren't much "connected." Only thing I see so far is u engage, wyvern engages. U use a WS (or some magic), ur Wyvern uses a breath move. Sure, if u cast magic under some prerequisite, u can be a semi-effective healer, but almost no one subs mage type for Drgs. Soul link is too situational, and wyvern dies too quickly. The wyvern+drg interaction is way too limited as of now.



EDIT: Omg wtf? my title got changed to "Forum Whoring" lol. Wonder which mod changed it XD

[DakAttack]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

It does seem limited, and if it's an extension of the Dragoon we'd have more control. For example a car is an extension of the self, and you can control it as you control yourself. I'd like the power to position the wyvern, use it for ranged attacks, and other things that would make me more useful in a party. It doesn't even really need to be useful, just something more attractive.

Wyverns should have Jump commands as well, something that doesn't do damage but moves it out of AE range for three or four seconds. They can be Climb, High Climb, and then they could share Super Climb with us. This way they can stay out of harm's way.

[Cryxen]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

when u are actually playin dragoon without a mage sub, do you actually consider what moves you are doin in order to make you wyvern more battle effective? i think if SE did hav to make a update surrounding our wyverns i hope it would make us think about our moves in order to make our wyverns more efficient in pts, not just hav our wyvern do something that is just an addition to the dmg output but something that makes us hav to plan it out, kinda like how they can be used in MBs

[Balodoth]

Re: SE and the Dragoons

I agree, Cryxen. What I was trying to say is that the wyvern is an equal, not a subordinate. In the fact that we have to take action to get it to react both makes it an extension of us and places it further outside our control than a pet. It's actually more. . . social this way. If you want your employee to do something you tell them to do it, but if you want a colleague to do something you have to persuade them and modify your behavior in order to get the desired effect. Likewise, the wyvern isn't our tool, it has a mind of its own and "theoretically" will someday grow up to be something far more than we can control, but we can still do things to affect a desired reaction from it.

But it comes back to control. Why is a large portion of our effectiveness outside our control? The moonphase and day may affect a WHM effectiveness, but is it as much as 20%? No, perhaps closer to 3%. That's one of the reasons I want a toggle ability so that we can function somewhat without our wyvern. I'd like to see a summoned wyvern still be the preference, but not summoning it would be just as acceptable. This requires that the wyvern truly be worth summoning, that it offer something to the party and make up for any hindrance it may cause. It also requires the performance delta without the wyvern be far more limited than it currently is. As a passive ability at a fairly low level (likely 15), DRG would be a more acceptable subjob. For instance, let's say the ability allowed the pet to siphon TP from the monster like an additional effect, but when there was no pet the player got a bonus to critical hit rate (a mere 4 or 5%). WAR and MNK would be able to use the ability and help their damage output. BST would be able to use the pet's side of the ability. NIN and THF could very well make use of it in farming.

Granted, that particular idea would require some fine-tuning, but it's just one example that not only strengthens the wyvern but improves the player.