Advice from wiser players

[Omni]

Originally posted by Arcanastar
Thats offensive. All you peole who diss on DRG's need to stop, cuz i swear to any of you i can, and will, outdamage any drk you put me up against. DRGs are more than people make them out to be, and all you people judge a book by its cover. Well DRGs are like a book with out a cover... ur gonna have to look inside.


** **DRG for life** **

i really dont have a problem with drg. at the lower to mid levels, you guys do have good dmg output compared to drks and wars and whatever, if not more at times. however, when getting towards 50-60s, ur ws dmg drops off a lot imo. after 66, you will not out dmg a drk doing fuidama+spinslash. i've always been the one to try and have drgs in pts but a lot of the time, it can be disappointing. they have trouble turning the mob for fuidama even with ws+provoke. i really hope se does give drg a little more umf, b/c many times it feels that drgs have been forgotten.

[DakAttack]

They have. What do they get 50+? Royal Knight's Aketon? Scorp Harness? Assault Jerkin? AF is great but it doesn't provide the firepower that Hauber does. Barone is good, yea, but it's too little too late. We've already been given the bad rep and it's going to stick unless something drastic happens.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

dont play drg >< its so broken job

you play the game to enjoy yourtime not sit at jeuno seeking for hours to get invited and its not fun after all this pain to reach 75 ppl told ya leave we have no use for drg....

maybe play other job 'you like" and play drg just for fun when you get borded and so you can lv drg to 60 without much troubles but after 60 god help ya --;;

[DakAttack]

It's players like you that make it hard for Drg to find a party. Most of the people who think Drg suck havn't even played it or partied with one and wouldn't know.

[EliteYuna]

Originally posted by Impaction
It's players like you that make it hard for Drg to find a party. Most of the people who think Drg suck havn't even played it or partied with one and wouldn't know.

you don't even have faith in your own job, DRG, look at what your saying,

They are not saying DRG sux, they are saying its a broken job, and that it takes forever to find a party as a DRG, and that DRG don't do as much damage 50+

Your the only one it seems that is literally and informally saying DRG sucks.

These people have played DRG, and/or have played with DRGS and they know that they are either:
A:broken
B:easily outdamage by other jobs, such as MNK, RNG, DRK etc. with correct equipment and subjob
C: unwanted for partys most of the time because of A & B or because there is no need for the DRG


Drg are not bad, but when you could have something else for that deparment in which you would invite a DRG for, melee/damage, they are just not worth it versus choosing other jobs, because with the party setup they are more able to attain more exp per hour due to the damage output and WS damage/WS compatiblities etc.

[Gekoman]

Originally posted by EliteYuna

Drg are not bad, but when you could have something else for that deparment in which you would invite a DRG for, melee/damage, they are just not worth it versus choosing other jobs, because with the party setup they are more able to attain more exp per hour due to the damage output and WS damage/WS compatiblities etc.

Dragoon and Thief are a worthy melee duo to rival. Especially with a paladin tank.

Although I wouldn't mind a boost for our job, we arnt as bad as we are thought to be.

[DakAttack]

Originally posted by EliteYuna
you don't even have faith in your own job, DRG, look at what your saying,

They are not saying DRG sux, they are saying its a broken job, and that it takes forever to find a party as a DRG, and that DRG don't do as much damage 50+

Your the only one it seems that is literally and informally saying DRG sucks.

Quote where I litterally and informally say Dragoon sucks. I if thought it sucks why would I play it? Indeed I feel it's a bit broken and overlooked but it doesn't suck.

In my opinion the job that would suck would be Drk because it's extremely and overly simple to play. Drg have it rough taking care of a Wyvern since you can't directly heal it with spells. Drk do what? Swing? Weapon skill? Most of them don't know what a skill chain is or how to set up a SATA properly. All the Drg I've partied with damn well knew how to do it.

So in my opinion "suck" doesn't just cover the class itself but the quality of the people who play it. I wouldn't say Drg suck because they're pretty good DD and the people that play them have to know what they're doing to climb the levels.

[fuz]

In my opinion the job that would suck would be Drk because it's extremely and overly simple to play.

lol?

If you want simple, play monk. Drg is really, not hard at all either since neither job has many skills or abilities to use; not even expected to SA+TA, or even pull. Just hit stuff and WS. Drg can't even backup tank more than a couple hits. The wyvern is sad excuse for making your job 'more complicated'. You only need to use spirit link, and rest in a pinch. What is hard about that, I dunno. I've played drg and drk--playing a good drk is many times more difficult with knowing which spells to use, hate generation, pulling, equip swaps, tp issues, backup tanking, self-buff issues, stun, positioning and timing for SA+TA, etc.

In terms of damage capacity on exp mobs and nothing really IT+, all jobs are good--drg in particular. If you want to go HNM hunting, thats where drg does suck. Drg can't match the incremental damage of rng, blm, bst, smn, so no point in letting a drg stay in an alliance to swing away with the wyvern, when others can be doing much better. Drg is also poor at burst damage, so a sudden swap for WS damage isn't as good as... well just about every other class, and ranger opens lvl3 light SC anyhow, leaving drg as an opener for the rarely used lvl 3 dark SC. Which makes drg so very unecessary except on mobs that are weak to piercing.

[DakAttack]

Originally posted by fuz
lol?

If you want simple, play monk. Drg is really, not hard at all either since neither job has many skills or abilities to use; not even expected to SA+TA, or even pull. Just hit stuff and WS. Drg can't even backup tank more than a couple hits. The wyvern is sad excuse for making your job 'more complicated'. You only need to use spirit link, and rest in a pinch. What is hard about that, I dunno. I've played drg and drk--playing a good drk is many times more difficult with knowing which spells to use, hate generation, pulling, equip swaps, tp issues, backup tanking, self-buff issues, stun, positioning and timing for SA+TA, etc.

Oops, overlooked monk; I agree they're incredibly simple and easy to play. Subbing thief doesn't make anything more difficult, SATA is one of the easiest skills to pull off in the game. Hate generation is pretty simple, when I pulled hate as War or Drg I'd turn around for a few seconds to shake it off until I feel I can turn around again or the tank provokes. I ask people to do the same thing when I tank as War/Nin because it makes things a lot easier. Pulling is simple, swapping equipment is all in the macro, TP is simple, and I can see stun as the hardest part of being a Drk yet I don't see many Drk do it at all.

The wyvern can be a pain to keep alive. Almost every single monster has an AE skill that they can use multiple times per fight. It's a pain to keep them at full health and keep up your TP at the same time. Dismiss doesn't make any sense because it kills it off unless it's at full health. I don't understand that or why SE hasn't added a rest pet command. It makes sense.

In terms of damage capacity on exp mobs and nothing really IT+, all jobs are good--drg in particular. If you want to go HNM hunting, thats where drg does suck. Drg can't match the incremental damage of rng, blm, bst, smn, so no point in letting a drg stay in an alliance to swing away with the wyvern, when others can be doing much better. Drg is also poor at burst damage, so a sudden swap for WS damage isn't as good as... well just about every other class, and ranger opens lvl3 light SC anyhow, leaving drg as an opener for the rarely used lvl 3 dark SC. Which makes drg so very unecessary except on mobs that are weak to piercing. [/B]

I havn't reached that level yet so I can only take what you say with a grain of salt. Burst damage seems to be very popular for HNMs. Barrage, chi blast, and other nukes seem to be most useful and easiest to use as well. From what I hear 50+ Drg starts to fade out of a useful existence and seems to be forgotten by SE. Their only saving grace is the blunt polearm, but it doesn't affect the WSs which is lame.

A lot of players agree with what's gimp about Drg, how doesn't SE see it? I wonder if there's some other use for them that we've overlooked. I could come up with a lot of useful changes that would balance out Drg, but it is futile hopeing SE will as well?

[kuu]

Drg's only really have trouble with AoE monsters. Flies, weapons, bones, etc.

Anything non destructive and they will do more damage for less hate. They will usually TP faster also.

[fuz]

it's not looking at one thing at a time that is difficult. It's doing all at once, and deciding what to do next, in which order.

On drk in a fight, I need to know the hate line, since spells pull a lot of hate, stun does as well, so I can only use them after a tank has secured enough hate. (Two absorbs right from the start are stronger than a provoke.) I need to choose absorbs to match the mob we are fighting, keep on top of stun for a nin to re-cast, as well as mob specials. I also need to know when I'm casting too much and affecting tp gain since drk acc and tp gain are so low--and possibly eliminate some spells. Also if the mages are not healing or refreshing me enough, I must add in aspir and drain if possible. (For some reason mages think I'm self-sufficient.) Every PT is of course different, so nothing works quite the same, forcing trial and error learning until you get an effective strategy going. I also need to swap to casting gear and TP gear afterwards.

So then I spend a min building TP, at which point I need to setup SA+TA and select which buff, if any to use. I have souleater, last resort, and abs-str. For souleater, I need to know on which chain # I can use it to the most effect, and keep aware of the timer--same with last resort. Abs-str I can use, but only if my SC partner gives me enough time to cast it, which can be stacked with LR or SE, or used alone. So I check positions, buff up, swap equips, SA+TA (these are laggy on macros so you have to pay extra attention) and hit. If the chain is darkness, I switch to casting gear, MB with drain (which does quite a bit of damage). Then I swap back to TP gear and run back to the bard (if any) for refresh, run back out to pull against any competition, and start over again. It's very busy in theory and practice. I'm constantly hitting keys here and there, checking timers and making sure macros have executed successfully. The only other jobs I've played that are this much trouble are rdm and brd.

Occasionally stuff goes wrong, so I need to have sleep2 on hand, and backup tanking gear if I use my 2hr+SE. I don't need to attempt all this extra work, but I do because I like it when people tell me I play well and I feel the need to push myself.

On the other hand drk/war is a bit easier to play. I get so much hate, I can't do much but swing, ws and stun. I can't really buff or cast much. It's a big problem with nin tanks, but it happens with pld tanks sometimes--I end up getting covered all the time with anything but a well equipped and played pld.

Drg I find easier since I rarely get hate, I just use jump for tp, high jump for tp/hate shed. I've never had to use super jump in an exp pt yet. (Haven’t pted with any thfs recently.) I can't backup tank since I take way too much damage, even with carapace armor--besides the fact I can't really pull enough hate for a mid-fight SA+TA. Just hit, announce TP when I need to, and start a SC.

Keeping the wyvern alive has been very easy for me. Crabs, crawlers, beetles, spiders, goobues, cocatrice, etc don't really have any particularly nasty AoE attacks, so spirit link every few fights is usually plenty. Spirit Link timer isn't really long either. For gobs, often I don't bother using the wyvern unless there is a good stunner, or two. It's just fighting a losing battle. Flys I don't use the wyvern either, but I don't need to for obvious reasons. Fighting weapons or certain beastmen has been moderately difficult, but those are rare fights.

Monk is... even easier. I can boost for fun, but it rarely does much on one punch or a WS, while a 200dmg chi blast isn't exactly a smart thing to pull at the beginning of a fight. I don't need to use dodge (it pulls unnecessary hate). So it's just focus and berserk. I don't really have any great armor to constantly swap, so I don't really have any swap macros. (Mnk never subs thf except in dire circumstances, so no str swaps.) Just stand opposite to the tank, voke for SA+TA, and WS. Alternate buffs as needed. Not much is expected of a monk besides just the basics--which is all they can really do. Even equips are relatively simple.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

Originally posted by Impaction
Quote where I litterally and informally say Dragoon sucks. I if thought it sucks why would I play it? Indeed I feel it's a bit broken and overlooked but it doesn't suck.

In my opinion the job that would suck would be Drk because it's extremely and overly simple to play. Drg have it rough taking care of a Wyvern since you can't directly heal it with spells. Drk do what? Swing? Weapon skill? Most of them don't know what a skill chain is or how to set up a SATA properly. All the Drg I've partied with damn well knew how to do it.

So in my opinion "suck" doesn't just cover the class itself but the quality of the people who play it. I wouldn't say Drg suck because they're pretty good DD and the people that play them have to know what they're doing to climb the levels.

your the most retard person i ever know
dont even compare drg with drk
drg have no use at all endgame and same with exp pt ppl invite drg as last resort when there is no one seeking some even prefer to sit at jeuno than pt with drg...
drk isnt hit-ws job thats drg dont mix things
drk absorns melee stun ws sata hate control and best renkei closer ingame you cant even compare this 2 jobs
drg is nice job and i like it but it so broken for everything

see this some screen shots from today hunt and i wonder if drg can do this lol... all ws 100tp other than spiral 300 tp all no souleater



you see all this damage up?
ppl still look at drk kinda broken job endgame cuz rng do higher damage but that doesnt mean drk sux its just some jobs better than others so what you think when ppl compare drg and rng orz you cant let ppl say yes drg is good job and its not broken cuz its really broken XD

[DakAttack]

Originally posted by fuz
it's not looking at one thing at a time that is difficult. It's doing all at once, and deciding what to do next, in which order.

On drk in a fight, I need to know the hate line, since spells pull a lot of hate, stun does as well, so I can only use them after a tank has secured enough hate. (Two absorbs right from the start are stronger than a provoke.) I need to choose absorbs to match the mob we are fighting, keep on top of stun for a nin to re-cast, as well as mob specials. I also need to know when I'm casting too much and affecting tp gain since drk acc and tp gain are so low--and possibly eliminate some spells. Also if the mages are not healing or refreshing me enough, I must add in aspir and drain if possible. (For some reason mages think I'm self-sufficient.) Every PT is of course different, so nothing works quite the same, forcing trial and error learning until you get an effective strategy going. I also need to swap to casting gear and TP gear afterwards.

So then I spend a min building TP, at which point I need to setup SA+TA and select which buff, if any to use. I have souleater, last resort, and abs-str. For souleater, I need to know on which chain # I can use it to the most effect, and keep aware of the timer--same with last resort. Abs-str I can use, but only if my SC partner gives me enough time to cast it, which can be stacked with LR or SE, or used alone. So I check positions, buff up, swap equips, SA+TA (these are laggy on macros so you have to pay extra attention) and hit. If the chain is darkness, I switch to casting gear, MB with drain (which does quite a bit of damage). Then I swap back to TP gear and run back to the bard (if any) for refresh, run back out to pull against any competition, and start over again. It's very busy in theory and practice. I'm constantly hitting keys here and there, checking timers and making sure macros have executed successfully. The only other jobs I've played that are this much trouble are rdm and brd.

Wow, it sounds tough when you explain it. Most Drk I've partied with don't bother casting much magic. They'll use it if we're fighting high defense monsters but other than that they wont bother. Most of them cast Absorb-Str and Absorb-Vit before they throw out a skill chain and work up way too much hate.

Originally posted by l)@RK-l)EVIL
your the most retard person i ever know
dont even compare drg with drk
drg have no use at all endgame and same with exp pt ppl invite drg as last resort when there is no one seeking some even prefer to sit at jeuno than pt with drg...
drk isnt hit-ws job thats drg dont mix things
drk absorns melee stun ws sata hate control and best renkei closer ingame you cant even compare this 2 jobs
drg is nice job and i like it but it so broken for everything

see this some screen shots from today hunt and i wonder if drg can do this lol... all ws 100tp other than spiral 300 tp all no souleater



you see all this damage up?
ppl still look at drk kinda broken job endgame cuz rng do higher damage but that doesnt mean drk sux its just some jobs better than others so what you think when ppl compare drg and rng orz you cant let ppl say yes drg is good job and its not broken cuz its really broken XD

You'd get the point across more effectively if you equated Dragoon to your spelling. Both are broken and could use a lot of help.

There's a level 70 Drg in my LS, he says he loves the job. He's played Drk and the like up to 75 and now he's chosen Drg. That's saying something right there.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

Originally posted by Impaction


There's a level 70 Drg in my LS, he says he loves the job. He's played Drk and the like up to 75 and now he's chosen Drg. That's saying something right there.

I wasnt saying what job you like most
every player free to chose what job he like
but you cant let people chose you with job like drg...
and if you go hnms as drg for example your selfish waste of slot
drg have no use at hnms he wanted to lv drg and i advised him lv other job cuz its not fun to sit at jeuno for days and endgame no one want you

I LOVE DRG job but this game isnt fair when its comes to drg job so you can blame gay SE for not fixing DRG

[Sadeira]

at the very least, SE should give mages the ability to cure wyverns and have curagas hit wyerns...