Drg on closing chains

[Kailea]

only shitty tanks need hate control. hate control is so lvl 50

lol hate control is good for any level PT...get you head out of your arss......

[Macht]

That is some good thinking of putting a DRG to good use. The structure looks like it would need a party that's really smart and knows what their focus is.

The 2 skillchain design is something I've always encouraged in my parties. The reasoning is if you do it right just about everyother monster dies almost instantly and the ones in-between take a good amount as well to nearly finish them as quick, it makes reaching chain #5 and above a heck of a lot easier.

The other advantage is when you get the hang of it right, then usually the WHM can sit out every other monster and heal. That makes their MP to use better.

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by kissboys
only shitty tanks need hate control. hate control is so lvl 50

Your completely lost on what I was trying to say. Thank you for your constructive comment. I don't can how good of a tank you are, but if a DRK/THF piles almost 2000 dmg on your other meele, they WILL have hate. If you don't finish off the mob or they can't remove the hate, they will get beat on, the mages will spam cures which will waste lots of MP. The MP is better off spent on chainning. One if the resons you see DRK's sub THF over WAR is so they don't kill themself. They are a very hateful job. Especially when using souleater or last resort on the SC. Just dump the hate on someone else and you don't have to worry. But sometimes that isn't always at option. Like I said above, if the other meele can't turn it, for whatever reason, then SA isn't going to work on the tank. It ends up as TA+WS, serverly nerfing the dmg. Now, with DRG/THF, SA+WS isn't a problem. Either it won't turn at all if the tank is good and/or if it's a ways into the fight. If you do steal hate, just jump it away. You'll never have to worry about the other meele being able to turn it. So, you'll get a full-damaging WS with SA every time. Get my point?

[Kibagami]

Actually in my static we have PLD, DRG and THF in the frontline. And to what i see it's become useless to do the initial Voke for SATA on the tank. DRG has pretty crappy DEF and by the time they pull it off i'm down 1/3 hp...if somethin goes wrong it can get nasty and sometimes the pld just vokes so i don't die and the whole thing gets messed up. As of now i'm using WAR sub and i start the SC, and usually the mob doesn't turn even after the THF uses SATAWS on me...
Our PLD is pretty solid, only when we do SC at start of fights do i have to resort to using my jumps to clear hate. The THF in our party suggested I try subbing THF so i can start the SC with SAWS...if the mob turns around he does SATAWS, if it doesn he just uses TAWS (after 60 with assasin). Haven't tried it yet since we are on a recess. DRG/WAR does do more DoT, but boosting my WS dmg to the point where the SC does enough dmg to either kill or almost kill the mobs could make chains go faster.
Might try the 3 way SC too, i always used to make 3 way SC...but ppl usually mess this up so i gave up and stuck to simple 2 way SCs :p

[GSDragoon]

1/3 HP after the initial SATA+WS??? Tell your THF to hurry up and get your PLD to flash.

Our PLD is pretty solid, only when we do SC at start of fights do i have to resort to using my jumps to clear hate.

I hate when DRG's do this, I really do. What are you going to do when the BLM bursts a 1300 FiregaIII? You have to end the SC on the tank if your opening the fight with a SC.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Originally posted by GSDragoon
I hate when DRG's do this, I really do. What are you going to do when the BLM bursts a 1300 FiregaIII? You have to end the SC on the tank if your opening the fight with a SC. [/B]

Well, technically you never have to do anything... If your blm is getting beat on then, yea, you prolly should... but I've seen some awesome plds who, even at lvl 50, could hold hate against a 1k Freeze MB after the second voke

...so it all depends, I'm sure Kibagami's PT isn't going "damn the blm died, but we aren't going to change any tactics to prevent that from happening again"

Oh btw, I think I've nailed lvl 2 renkei dmg to a range of 30%-60%.

[GSDragoon]

Originally posted by Drogen_Shomuro
Well, technically you never have to do anything... If your blm is getting beat on then, yea, you prolly should... but I've seen some awesome plds who, even at lvl 50, could hold hate against a 1k Freeze MB after the second voke

...so it all depends, I'm sure Kibagami's PT isn't going "damn the blm died, but we aren't going to change any tactics to prevent that from happening again"

Oh btw, I think I've nailed lvl 2 renkei dmg to a range of 30%-60%.

After the second voke, that's usually when I first start the SC if not on the tank. But that's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about the first few seconds, starting the SC.

So...

incomming pull
tank provokes
wheeling thrust
sharkbite on DRG
super jump
BLM MB 1300 dmg
BLM gets hit
PLD uses some abilites because provoke isn't up
BLM still gets hit
BLM dies

That's what I'm talking about. Like I said before, if your killing fast, which means SC's every fight, then your jumps won't recycle fast enough. 5 minutes on SJ, 2.5 on HJ. If your SC'ing evey fight and fast enough for chain 5's, the jumps will run out. It's not a reliable to jump away hit, IMO. I try to open with as many SC's as possible.

incomming pull
tank provokes
MNK provokes
Dragon Kick
Wheeling Thrust on the tank
BLM MB 1300 dmg
PLD keeps hate

or

2nd provoke from tank
Dragon Kick
Wheeling Thrust
high jump if need be
BLM MB
dead enemy

[Kibagami]

No no you got it all wrong. Here are the steps of what an SC at start means for my party:

-THF pulls.
-I (DRG) Voke.
-Since i usually start the SC i do the WS right after voke.
-If the THF isn't lined up i may use jump first to hold hate a little bit more then go for my WS.
-After that THF closes chain with SATA on the tank.
-PLD does the usual Provoke/Flash.
-I use high jump to clear any hate i got from initial voke+WS.
-BLM MB.

Usually mobs are dead by the time this is over and it takes less than 20 seconds to get trhu it all. This lets us chain faster since we don't have to wait for SATA timers to recast to do SC.

On the first pull or on mobs were we are not going to SC we let the PLD voke at start and the THF does SATA over me. Usually our tank doesn't have any problem holding hate and usually thats the only hate spike the pld has to manage. Maybe the THF will use another SATA over me by the end of those fights. When we happen to get enough tp to SC mid fight we decide either if we use it right then or at the start of the next fight depending on how fast we are killing the mob or on which xp chain we are on. If we do it mid fight usually the mobs have 1/2 of hp so if the THF does SATA WS over me and i jump the hate off it doesn't matter cause the mob will be dead by the time the BLM MBs.

My hp can get as low as 1/3 cause most of the time i have berserk on while i voke at start, on mobs that have double attack or that crit me during that time lower my hp a lot :p

And yeah if our BLM was getting killed every fight we would have changed this tactics long time ago :spin:

[Gekoman]

Personally when I provoke at start I use a macro to /equip Phalanx Rings and defender, then switch back to Sniper Rings and cancel defender after SATA, usually means mages dont have to heal me much at all.
A majority of the time its not a problem though as the thief is fast enough to SATA onto tank without me taking enough damage without doing the above method.