~Time for an intelligent discussion - Cephius, look here~

[SelfdestButton]

If there's a Smn and a Thf in my party, I usually suggest this:

Tail Whip > Penta Thrust: Gravitation

Poison Nails > Viper Bite/Dancing Edge: Distortion
Though you could also do this:

Punch > Skewer: Fusion

Axe Kick > Vorpal thrust: Fragmentation

Having a Smn not open extra SCs for you is sort of wasting potential, since they can open any Level two SC, drg can close three with moderate satisfaction at different levels.

[GSDragoon]

Jumping away hate can be dangerous at times. You have to do it right or your BLM will hate you. The 2 meele and tank have to work together for it to work out right in different situations. Explaining this to a JP is hard ; ; Oh, and you need provoke for this. Another reason to sub WAR. You need the tank to have hate over the BLM after a SC. A SC on you at the start of the fight is a no no. If the enemy has 3/4 or more HP, you have to grab aggro so the SATA+WS goes on the tank. If you don't give them time to get enough hate, jumping away hate is dumb. Unless your tank sucks, jumping away hate when it's half dead or less is fine. Usually by time the second provoke, I'm not able to pull it off my bro. You have to work this out between your party members.

[Kibagami]

When i said SC at the start i meant it on the tank

Self thanks for the SC...not many SMN in kujata know the renkei chart well and well i don't know how the avatar's blood pacts fit in the SC chart.

[Omni]

Quick question~

how do you guys over come hard bodied mobs? ie: crabs.

i was in boyahda xping on steelshells 66-67 and we decided to try drg to start light for us, and having a drk end it with spinslash.

before i go on, i actually like the drg job and think its a great job except for its equipment shortcomings ; ;, so pls for all you over-sensitive drg this isnt a stab at you.

i took special notice to the drg dmg since i havent really pt with one at this lvl at all. his normal dmg on regular atks varied anywhere from 25-60 dmg. he was using that CP lance with a base dmg of 80. his wheeling thrust was doing anywhere from 125-350 dmg and lots of the time he had to provoke + ws to get the mob to turn his way.

needless to say, this dmg output quite low. but it was made up for it by a drk fuidama spinslash+ light renkei, blm bursting thunder III and myself double bursting for about 250dmg.

so now my back to my question, how do you guys overcome these types of mobs? is it really viable to whip out a staff? from what ive seen staff base dmg isnt too hot. i know drg staff ratiing is b+ which isnt bad. i kno theres 2 polearms that are crush-type dmg, heavy lance and bourdouse, other than having these, are you pretty much in trouble with hard bodied mobs and avoid xp`ing off them?

thx for any input~

[Khaeos]

I never had any trouble on Steelshells personally. I always hit 60-80 on them, and my Wheelings were 240-400 dmg on a steady average.

Staff is NOT a viable option in an exp party, I will say this much. DRG is a DD, whether or not people actually state it. Thats your role in the party. Staff will downgrade your damage to pathetic at best. Staff WS's hardly renkei into anything good, or for the damage needed at 65+ to make it really worthwhile.

There is nothing I can really suggest. Some may say small difference in str due to race wouldmatter, but I doubt that. I have a ton of accuracy (I'm going to be getting my Optical Hat tonight, +10 Accuracy headgear [Yes please]), and the more likely you hit, the harder you hit some say. It just depends on the person and their gear. Most people party with, somewhat low end Dragoons...those that don't have enough time to invest into FFXI to farm alot, or have friends to help them out. So their gear is average at best, (I see ALOT of these. Like a 64 DRG still using raptor helm -.-, or a 67 DRG still using full AF).

I wouldn't say base your opinion on DRG's just from that one particular partying experience, but invite others and get an average of what the DRG player is like. You may be surprised. Most DRG's don't survive beyond 65 without being good, competent and well equipped. You get a reputation after awhile if your good.

[SelfdestButton]

Blunt damage recieves an even stiffer penalty on crabs I believe, rules out staff even if say, it was an A+ skill, which it isn't.
Maybe your drg friend was using sushi and shouldve been using curry, maybe he just sucked. I dunno. Shouldve been doing more damage anyway. Piercing isn't *cripplingly* penalized on hard shell mobs.

[Lightseeker]

Originally posted by SelfdestButton
Blunt damage recieves an even stiffer penalty on crabs I believe, rules out staff even if say, it was an A+ skill, which it isn't.
Maybe your drg friend was using sushi and shouldve been using curry, maybe he just sucked. I dunno. Shouldve been doing more damage anyway. Piercing isn't *cripplingly* penalized on hard shell mobs.

Not true. Blunt weapons are not penalized on hard shell mobs. This is why on rng I switch to gun (bullets are the same weapon type as h2h) on crabs and beetles, and why the mnk/war and I can tear them up in static. I've never tried staff on drg, I just wanted to correct this bit of mis-information.

[SelfdestButton]

Bullet damage isn't blunt.

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by SelfdestButton
Bullet damage isn't blunt.

Yeah I'd say bullets still pierce more than they bludgeon; not sure if it works the same way in Vana'diel

[Mithrael]

Bullet is most definitely not blunt damage. You can easily test it on bone mobs.

Also, it is a myth that 'thick shelled' mobs have resistance to piercing and/or blunt damage. They have high defense, but no specific damage modifier for any type of weapon.

[Lightseeker]

I tend to trust my sources, since they have been playing since the JP release. I'd dig up some links if I wasn't at work. If you want to test out bullets/arrows on bones, I suggest doing 5-1 and trying both weapons. I don't think the difference in damage can be attributed strictly to the damage differences of the ammo/weapon.

[Omni]

Originally posted by Mithrael
Bullet is most definitely not blunt damage. You can easily test it on bone mobs.

Also, it is a myth that 'thick shelled' mobs have resistance to piercing and/or blunt damage. They have high defense, but no specific damage modifier for any type of weapon.

if that is true then... a drg with the lvl 60 cp lance (cant remember the exact name) that has 80 base dmg, and a drk with mythril heart that also has 80 base dmg, both same race and similar equips should be doing similar dmg on steelshells. that wasnt the case. i understand slight variances in dmg but when the difference of 30dmg vs 75 dmg, you have to wonder.

[Balodoth]

You don't think?

There's no estimates needed. Just try two different sets of arrows and two different sets of bullets. See how damage escalates from one damage rating to the other. You'll see that the damage increase is not linear to the damage rating, but that it increases either exponentially or fractionally--depending on how your ATK stacks up to their DEF. In other words, it is indeed the difference in damage rating.

I suddenly think fractionally is the wrong word. Mithrael, help me out here. Exponentially means the graph line comes closer to vertical as it approaches infinity, what's the word for when it comes closer to horizontal?

Argh. I know what I want to express, but I can't remember the right way to express it. . .

[yuukei]

Originally posted by Omni-Ragnarok
if that is true then... a drg with the lvl 60 cp lance (cant remember the exact name) that has 80 base dmg, and a drk with mythril heart that also has 80 base dmg, both same race and similar equips should be doing similar dmg on steelshells. that wasnt the case. i understand slight variances in dmg but when the difference of 30dmg vs 75 dmg, you have to wonder.

Don't DRKs get more attack bonus job traits than drg? If that's so then that might be the reason why.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

I think your str versus the enemy's vit has alot to do with it as well. I'm fairly certain that drk's have higher base str than drgs.

As for dmg on crabs though, I find my dmg sometimes varies ALOT, anywhere from 20 to 80. I'm not sure why though, but this might suggest some kind of step increase, and when you're teetering on the edge of that step, the random modifier makes a big difference. ...Or maybe I'm just missing the Scissor guard, I dunno.

To Omni-Ragnarok, I find that almost any ws gets gimped severely against crabs without sneak attack. I was in a PT with a drk, and whenever he missed sneak due to the mob turning or something, cross reaper would hit for only 200 or so (It hit for 7 once -_- ). Conversely, I went to a PT subbing thf once, and SA + wheeling thrust would land for 300-400 on crabs consistently.