~Time for an intelligent discussion - Cephius, look here~

[Khaeos]

This was recently posted by myself earlier today in a thread.

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Originally posted by Thegod


drk_ they do more dmg then you guys by a ton
sam- they gain tp faster then my ranger
mnk- they own you guys in dmg can heal their own status affects

No, no and hahaha...No. Keep your stereotypical ideals to yourself. I am really, REALLY getting tired of all this.

First off, I have never been outdamaged by any DRK I have ever partied with. And don't give me the bullshit "He must have been a sucky DRK", because he would own any one of you.

SAM, please...don't make me laugh any more then I already am. I get enough TP each battle to ws twice, every single battle.

Monk, again...laughable. Monk only outshines me in damage against Bones. Nothing else. Oh my, and guess what! I can heal my own status effects to! Its called the wyvern. You people need to learn about it.

When you factor in damage, you add the wyvern to the DRG's damage as well. Wyvern is a part of a DRG's job as much Souleater, Last Resort, Store TP and Chakra is to DRK,SAM, MNK. To say its not is to say you have no right to even talk about who out-damage who, because you know nothing.

I out-damage all of them 60% of the time with wyvern damage added. The other 40% of the time, I equal them. I equal them even without the wyvern. Why? because I know how to play my job and its abilities.

Any of the DRK's, SAM's or MNK's that I am personal friends with will clearly point out that I am right. I can point out quite a few names that are prominent on the Midgard/Hades servers.

So until you learn all aspects of the job and its rivals, please...keep your mindless following of the masses opinions to yourself. Your not saying anything some other person hasn't said 6 months ago.

/end rant

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I have put up with this for over a year now. And even my almost endless patience has its limits. So I am very close to getting to the breaking point.

Every single point I made above has been proven by one or more people in various posts in this forum, each and every single point.

So I go onto the main issue, and that is these people have no desire to actually try and find out for themselves. They are endlessly following one person or two people that had bad experience. You know what we call this? We call these people "sheep". Sheep tend to follow mindlessly whereever you lead them, going "bbbaaaaa baaaaaa" and forming no intelligent opinion of their own.

Damage logs have been posted of a monk, dark knight and Dragoon being in a party. When I find it, it will be posted here.

Until then, lets try and have an intelligent conversation. If you have nothing intelligent to add besides "omg this guy is lamezorxs !!111one" or "They need to stop whining about this", then keep your damn mouth shut and move along.

Enough said.

[Kagerou]

...
Is this ur way of raising self-esteem or something?
If ur friends and ur LS members know that ur a good drg then u don't need to post this ridiculously long post to "Prove" to the public that u own

[TheMidg]

You're just so great, would you like a cookie?

[Darkedge]

People cannot be physically harmed for commiting crimes aside from capital punishment.
You can't e-slap people over the internet.
Human ignorance is to people as hydrogen is to a star.


As for this topic, nothing can be really said imo. There's no knowledge without experience, and I haven't EXPed past 46. Since I can't contribute from in game experience, I can comment on what I've seen in forum and I will try to avoid being a sheep.

Yes, you can post a parser log showing you the DRG out-damaging DRKs, MNKs, SAMs, but _ANYONE_ can just throw ideas out at you such as "Well maybe they were gimp" or "Thats only because they started the skill chains." People can post logs of DRG with damage being bad compared to DRK, and for all we know that could be because DRG started the SC and the DRK closed it.

It's my understanding that DRG are SC openers, and DRK are SC closers. Don't most parser logs credit SC damage to the closer of the SC? More power to DRK, less power the DRG. MNK are great for DPS, and Samurai are good with parties that allow more than one SC (Such as a Nin or War tanking, as well as Sam being able to SC with another attacker) right? So we're comparing different roles here not just different classes.

Isn't the point of EXPing to get the most EXP in the least amount of time, rather than doing the most damage?

What if the DRG party crunches lower numbers but gains more exp than the high number DRK party? Doesn't that make the DRG party better?

With the question's brought up we're discussing DRG vs DRK pt, and pt set-up hasn't been considered yet.

If DRG and DRK are in same party, would we get more exp without the DRG or more exp without the DRK? Once again we haven't considred PT set-up.

That's my rant. Read whatever you chose. I think it's disgusting that so much info can be gathered from this discussion.

(The purpose of my rant is to say parsers do nothing to an ignorant or already biased audience, and that different melee play different roles.)

[Tokitoki]

Its not so much that hes trying to prove anythig, he just wants people to see for themselves and find out for themselves. I played DRG for a while and i got a lot of that "DRG SUX I AM TEH 1337 DRK ROARZORZ" stuff... Gets very annoying even after you can show that the job isnt horrible. Maybe youve had a bad experience with a DRG, wasnt a good player, didnt have good equip, w/e the reason. That doesnt mean you should label the whole DRG community as "gimp."

[CarbonFibre]

Everyone knows that since DRK hits for more damage each swing and casts spells, it's already a more powerful job than DRG.

DRK is sexier, but there's so many of them that the purple DRG getup is hot.

[Kagerou]

Originally posted by Tokitoki
Its not so much that hes trying to prove anythig, he just wants people to see for themselves and find out for themselves. I played DRG for a while and i got a lot of that "DRG SUX I AM TEH 1337 DRK ROARZORZ" stuff... Gets very annoying even after you can show that the job isnt horrible. Maybe youve had a bad experience with a DRG, wasnt a good player, didnt have good equip, w/e the reason. That doesnt mean you should label the whole DRG community as "gimp."

Yeah, I understand what u mean I just didn't like this part

First off, I have never been outdamaged by any DRK I have ever partied with. And don't give me the bullshit "He must have been a sucky DRK", because he would own any one of you.

SAM, please...don't make me laugh any more then I already am. I get enough TP each battle to ws twice, every single battle.

Monk, again...laughable. Monk only outshines me in damage against Bones. Nothing else. Oh my, and guess what! I can heal my own status effects to! Its called the wyvern. You people need to learn about it.

I had a pretty nice time with some of the Drgs I pted with. I remember one time when the DRG was dealing so much dmg I felt ashamed and ended up spending all my gil on buying top-notch gear after the PT disbanded. (I made a n00bish thread in the SAM section about that experience)
:sweat:

[Khaeos]

Ok, just a few words first.

I didn't make this thread to brag about myself. I was merely using myself as an example of what a good DRG could do (Though me saying I'm a good DRG could be construed as bragging).

I made this thread to get people to actually think about DRG, not just what some people say and then follow along like sheep.

In no way shape or form did I mean to say "Hhaha...I'm god and 1337". Nor did I mean to sit and point out that those 3 jobs suck.

I was just pointing out scenarios and continegencies that the DRG can equal or surpass other classes if played correctly. People have been doing the same to DRG for the past YEAR, pointing out flaws and throwing out " LEIK OMG DRG SUCKORXS, ALL ELSE I2 1337".

Meant to provide an actual opinion/account instead of following along on bandwagons.

[GSDragoon]

SAM, please...don't make me laugh any more then I already am. I get enough TP each battle to ws twice, every single battle.

wow, battles actually last that long for you???

Monk, again...laughable. Monk only outshines me in damage against Bones. Nothing else. Oh my, and guess what! I can heal my own status effects to! Its called the wyvern. You people need to learn about it.

You sub WHM in exp parties???


Anyways, I got a log of my static's party tonight, but no DRK, MNK or SAM. The other non-tank meele was a THF. If you want, I can post it.

[kissboys]

Sorry but there is a reason why dragons are not chosen on HNMs and usually the last chosen for XP parties 60-75. Its because any other DD is a better choice. Why choose a dragoon seeking when there is a rng or war? Why invite a dragoon into the alliance when a drk or sam can sa+WS for even more damage? dragoons might do good damage but every other DD does better. i seriously doubt you outdamaged drks but hey, you barely got wheeling thrust so you obviously havent seen the drks true class defining weaponskill. every class has a weaponskill that defines them. RNG with sidewinder, DRK with spinslash, SAM with kasha, MNK with dragon kick asuran fists raging fists. unfortunately dragoons get the shaft when it comes to weaponskills.

[Khaeos]

Originally posted by kissboys
Sorry but there is a reason why dragons are not chosen on HNMs and usually the last chosen for XP parties 60-75. Its because any other DD is a better choice. Why choose a dragoon seeking when there is a rng or war? Why invite a dragoon into the alliance when a drk or sam can sa+WS for even more damage? dragoons might do good damage but every other DD does better. i seriously doubt you outdamaged drks but hey, you barely got wheeling thrust so you obviously havent seen the drks true class defining weaponskill. every class has a weaponskill that defines them. RNG with sidewinder, DRK with spinslash, SAM with kasha, MNK with dragon kick asuran fists raging fists. unfortunately dragoons get the shaft when it comes to weaponskills.

Everyone, this is called stupidity. Or for lack of an idiot laden term, this is the talk of a sheep.

For one, I have been in many HNM ls's. First, you should learn or get to know be before making assumptions. It makes you look stupid, as it did now.

I know all about the weaponskills each gets, and I have partied with every single level from 65-75 for some quest/HNM etc or other. DRK's are overstated, utterly. You are just another of those "OMG DRK'S ARE 1337ER" morons who goes around. I have partied with many DRK's, and when I get to a higher level I will then compare the damage I do to them. DRK's my level, I match or outdamage.

Maybe you should post your own level, server and job...and then maybe I'll stop laughing at you.

Until then, my room will echo with laughter. Enough said. Now post something beyond a 5th grade level of job-boasting bull.

[SonOfSeto]

Abit harsh and kind of asking to get flamed, but kissboys post was abit narrow minded and did seem to be that general going along with public opinion and in this thread reading your initial post you seemed to be in no mood for posts like kissboys.

[Xythalia]

Re: ~Time for an intelligent discussion - Cephius, look here~

Originally posted by Khaeos
This was recently posted by myself earlier today in a thread.

--------------------------------------


No, no and hahaha...No. Keep your stereotypical ideals to yourself. I am really, REALLY getting tired of all this.

First off, I have never been outdamaged by any DRK I have ever partied with. And don't give me the bullshit "He must have been a sucky DRK", because he would own any one of you.

SAM, please...don't make me laugh any more then I already am. I get enough TP each battle to ws twice, every single battle.

Monk, again...laughable. Monk only outshines me in damage against Bones. Nothing else. Oh my, and guess what! I can heal my own status effects to! Its called the wyvern. You people need to learn about it.

When you factor in damage, you add the wyvern to the DRG's damage as well. Wyvern is a part of a DRG's job as much Souleater, Last Resort, Store TP and Chakra is to DRK,SAM, MNK. To say its not is to say you have no right to even talk about who out-damage who, because you know nothing.

I out-damage all of them 60% of the time with wyvern damage added. The other 40% of the time, I equal them. I equal them even without the wyvern. Why? because I know how to play my job and its abilities.

Any of the DRK's, SAM's or MNK's that I am personal friends with will clearly point out that I am right. I can point out quite a few names that are prominent on the Midgard/Hades servers.

So until you learn all aspects of the job and its rivals, please...keep your mindless following of the masses opinions to yourself. Your not saying anything some other person hasn't said 6 months ago.

/end rant

----------------------

I have put up with this for over a year now. And even my almost endless patience has its limits. So I am very close to getting to the breaking point.

Every single point I made above has been proven by one or more people in various posts in this forum, each and every single point.

So I go onto the main issue, and that is these people have no desire to actually try and find out for themselves. They are endlessly following one person or two people that had bad experience. You know what we call this? We call these people "sheep". Sheep tend to follow mindlessly whereever you lead them, going "bbbaaaaa baaaaaa" and forming no intelligent opinion of their own.

Damage logs have been posted of a monk, dark knight and Dragoon being in a party. When I find it, it will be posted here.

Until then, lets try and have an intelligent conversation. If you have nothing intelligent to add besides "omg this guy is lamezorxs !!111one" or "They need to stop whining about this", then keep your damn mouth shut and move along.

Enough said.

Hi...umm..this was posted by me in another thread too, but that thread really had nothing to do with this topic you're discussing about. So I'll just paste my response here again for others to view since this thread is more relevant.

Here was my response:

Since when did you represent the entire DRG community? Personally, boasting how good your DRG doesn't really get your anywhere. If it's as good as you say, then kudos to you.

The fact is the average DRG player as of right now have problems getting a PT mainly because their high level game prowess pales in comparison to other jobs. The only way they can out-shine is through loading up on some extremely expensive items or getting some of the rare/ex sets...which the "average" player could most likely not afford.

In order to compare jobs, it's best to compare it from the majority/average standpoint. Khaeos, when you post and say how damn good your DRG is, you know what? I'm proud for you. But have you considered the rest of the DRG community before posting? In order to get a good comparsion of each job's power, you need to examine the average DRG vs. the average <job>. Think of it as a bell-curve chart...and compare that majority with the rest of the other average players.

I'm sorry to say..but the average 65+ DRK still out-damages an average DRG from last resort, soul eater, job traits, and their most common SJ: Thf with SATA spinning slash/cross reaper to end skillchains.

The average SAM still gets TP faster than the average DRG.

The average MNK is debatable...but it surely out-damages when it comes time for skillchain. Oh..and about the status heal thing...yes, your wyvern can heal you. But that would mean you'll join a PT as DRG/(mage job)? I don't think I want to invite a Drg/whm or Drg/rdm into my PT when what I want out of a DRG is damage.

Before I end this, let me clarify another thing too. I'm not a DRG hater, but when I build my PT, I choose jobs that are well-suited to fight in an area we're going. There are time I prefer DRGs over other jobs because they're well suited to fight what my PT is going to kill...and that is the time they outdamage other jobs. There are also times I don't want a DRG in my PT. Fact is all jobs are good jobs when they're played well and their role suits the purpose of killing whatever mob is in that area. Just that in most high level areas, other jobs have greater flexibility. ie. DRK is still good on bones as they are good on weapons in Romaeve or Tulia.

[Mithrael]

SAM, please...don't make me laugh any more then I already am. I get enough TP each battle to ws twice, every single battle.

wow, battles actually last that long for you???

That's exactly what I was thinking The mobs is usually dead within 10 seconds after the first skillchain

[Rainsford]

Wheeling thrust is actually decent on those higher def mobs that other jobs have a problem with connecting/doing damage with their ws, or have trouble setting up SA due to whatever reason, its pretty much a spirits withen you can use at 100 tp...

I partied with a monk in bibiki bay at 71, and sc was dragonkick>wheeling thrust, and the wheeling thrust outdamages the dragon kick almost every time. The monk was hitting for about 70-80 a punch or so, with my swings around 150-180, which isen't counting wyvern damage. Of course, you have the jumps too and with the AF boots macrod in thats about 200-300 damage every minute or so if you space the useage of the jumps out...

And months ago in boyohda on darters, I could keep up with a rng in terms of damage (before ws got done >< ), with the rng being decently equipped...

so yea maybe some of the times other jobs with out dps drgs, but sometimes drg out dps the other jobs... And from what i've seen, the acc bonus of drg passive seems to help alot.. As i can out tp drks without devoting as much gear to acc (str rings instead of snipers).... so theres another thing that helps out drg but people never mention..