STR vs. Attack

[Darkani]

Im not sure about this but it seems like more attack doesnt help me much for more damage. And there is not much STR gear worth using at my lvl now. But I see some more coming in the 70s.

Whats the difference in STR and Attack? I know that 2str = 1 attack but im pretty sure STR does more then just that.
Like 2 dex = 1 acc and more/stronger criticals
and 2 vit = 1 def+ -1% damage taken

maybe 2 str = +1% damage done, anyone know?

[Valdrien]

STR determines the range of your damage, Attack determines where you hit within that range. So if you are hitting a high number very consistently, then your Attack is high enough and it is time to raise your STR to "uncap" your damage. Each point of STR you add should allow you to hit for 1-2 points more damage on your top-end.

[Balodoth]

STR vs. ATK

Ignore the previous post, he has it backwards. Check this link, assuming it pastes correctly: STR vs. ATK

Basically ATK increases the possible damage range in an exponential fashion. Each point of ATK has a larger effect than the point before. ATK doesn't guarantee damage on a swing by swing basis, as STR does, but during the course of your leveling, you'll end up with some very nice hits.

STR increases damage in a linear fashion. Each point increases damage by one, just like the point before. You'll still see your damage jumping around. The thread will explain why. However, where ATK allows for higher possible damage, STR keeps you from having lower damage.

STR is best for jobs that average a lot of hits (THF, NIN, MNK, etc.). ATK is best for the heavy hitters (DRK, DRG, SAM, etc.) Between the two, I'd recommend as much ATK as you can get. If you have a parser, you're welcome to try out both ways and compare. Of course, at the level you've listed, I'd be more concerned about getting as much ACC as possible. Don't matter how much damage you can do if you can't hit in the first place.

[Lmnop]

I just posted this in the wrong thread. Let's try again.

except that some people have theorized - in that very thread even - that there comes a point where the +attack will 'plateau.' At which point, adding STR becomes more beneficial.

[fuz]

I've not seen it plateau, but it does sort of curve off noticeably. E.g, berserk+ mithkabob give a large boost, but stacking last resort on top of that seems not to do much, even though it is a 25% boost in attack like berserk.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

spinning slash with +30 str damage = 1200
when i enequip those 30str and equip another 20atk i do 1000~ :sweat:

STR realy effect ws ALOT
brd songs also effect ws damage cuz they dont only add 20 atk brd songs give me like +100~ atk XD

[Lmnop]

it seems that weapon skills follow their own rules. Let's say we believe the player-tested formula presented in that link (I personally do), Weapon Skills still follow their own logic. It seems to me that they're figured the same, but certain stats get 'weighted' depending on the WS. Or random stat boosts are just added in like Charisma.

Fuz: you explained what I was trying to say.

[Rubik]

WS really do seem to be another matter. I think this is unfortunate in that you have to set up for either WS or standard damage, or hot swap equipment for both (not to mention that different WS seem to be affected by diffrent stats).

Also, I half wonder if elemental resists have any impact on WS. I realize that a resist is, well, a resist but I would not be totally surprised if there was some relation. After all, AF gives a huge resist to earth.

Personally, I set up as ACC -> ATK -> EVA -> DEX -> DEF ->STR. EVA is only higher in my list than DEX because I set up SATA.

[Balodoth]

Plateau

No, the thread states that def will plateau where more defense has diminishing results. The first page states the limits of the effect ATK has: 999 or where your ATK divided by the enemy's DEF cubed meets or exceeds the cap of 2.

As I've said before, ATK allows for more possible damage while STR allows for less, but more reliable, damage. The thread also discusses that various weaponskills and job abilities use certain stats in special ways. For instance, Sneak Attack adds the DEX to the weapon's damage value and makes it an automatic critical hit. Provoke can be strengthened by CHR. Chi Blast relies on MND. And, if I remember correctly, Sturmwind is heavily reliant on STR. To make a long story short, weaponskills and job abilities buck the trend and don't belong in this discussion.

And, to set the record straight, since nobody else noticed this. . . 30 STR ends with 1200 dmg, where 20 ATK ends with 1000 dmg. STR adds the damage, plain and simple, where ATK only gives you the possibility of damage--there's no guarantee it'll be used. What is important to remember is that 2 STR adds 1 ATK. So the first setup includes 15 of the 20 ATK from the second scenario. So really, we need to compare 30 STR to 5 ATK. Which do you think wins?

[Rubik]

So, STR obviously has its place. Next question... Where do I put it?

Going into level 60 (61 actually) I will have:

RK Army Lance
Pebbles
Valkyrie's Mask / AF helm (for WS)
Merman's Gorget
Assault Earring
Spike Earring
AF Body
AF Hands
Sniper's Ring
Sniper's Ring
Amemit Mantle
Life Belt
AF Legs
AF Feet

I am hesitant to lose any of the AF (although I guess the legs are an option). I am keeping all the +ACC until I have proof that I have too much. I would be willing to lose the Spike Earring but there aren't a lot of good +STR earrings out there, unless I have missed them.

Soooo... unless a solution magicly presents itself, I am going to be hitting more often for less damage. There also isn't much room in that setup for DEX which is kind of a bummer for critical attacks.

[Macht]

If you want my experiences with damage it breaks Attack and STR down to two basics.

STR = Greater guarenteed damage, 1 STR = 1 DMG

Attack = Exponential Factor, this numbers power is best drawn out with special attacks (Ability attacks involving criticals or WSs)

If you were take a Range attack stack on meat mithkabob + Berserk + WarCry + Valor Minuet II you'll notice your nomal attack with each added boost after the initial will get less and less return of extra damage in a normal attack.

When you test this with attacks like a WSs, Sneak Attack, or other abilities that hit with criticals (Not giving your attack some extra side effect like souleater). The damage with each added boost goes up exponentially.

I've done many different tries and runs with 4 RNGs "The Worm's Turn" BCNM 40 so all our stats are forced to lv. 40 for a level test field (gear factor was excluded). I'm usually the only RNG/WAR in a group of RNG/NIN so I was able to use Berserk to show me a clear difference in the Attacks effect. I also would equip +2 STR rings to push STR up to see any noticable difference in damage I do.

Without the +STR my damage was equal to all the other RNGs, we were capping out at 106 damage. I equipped the +STR gear getting me a total of +16 STR (Meat Mithkabob added +5 STR). My attack damage almost match exactly what I raised boost to, I was doing around 125 damage every normal shot.

Now I did give a RNG/NIN a Meat Mithkabob also that we both used to see how the change would effect our WSs attack we fired every time we got to 100% TP (Piercing Arrow). The 2 RNGs without the Meath Mithkabob did around 130 damage at 100%. Me and the RNG/NIN did around 160 damage at 100%.

My final test with this same group was to add Berserk to my attacks with the meat mithkabob to see the difference. The normal damage itself with just a pure Attack boost did not get much of a boost it was around 130 damage.

The WSs and my Barrage however got a HUGE difference from this. Every RNG/NIN (without Meat) topped damage at around 500, the 1 RNG/NIN with Meat topped at about 600. My Barrage when I hit with the Meat + Berserk topped at 780. The WS (Piercing Arrow) the normals did 130, RNG/NIN + Meat did 160's, and Me + Meat + Berserk did around 220 damage.

As far as i can see the Attack is factored against the Monsters Defense with some exponential factor giving a percent increase. The STR is a direct 1 damage per STR boost. That is why depending on how the character attacks which becomes more important is decided from that. If you attack fast like a MNK hitting with two fists, or a NIN with two weapons, or WAR/NIN with two weapons then STR takes a little bit more priority to increase the DOT. Attack still shouldn't be ignored though because it gives you that exponential boost to your criticals and special attacks.

[Balodoth]

Focus

Well, I'd still focus on accuracy, ATK and STR mean nothing if you can't hit. However, for a WS like Pentathrust, STR is awesome. As I said it adds 1 ATK per 2 STR, so you get a small bonus. Since Pentathrust is 5 hits, STR will add for each hit that gets through.

So, do some tests on your own, putting equipment change into your macro for STR. If losing the ACC doesn't make you miss a hit, go for STR. However, if you'll be doing 1 or 2-hit WS's, it may be useful to stack up ATK, especially if you are using a high-delay polearm. Once again, try changing out a couple ACC items to make sure it doesn't have an adverse effect before you go all out in one or the other.