The Dark Dragoon: Tactics of a Drg/Drk

[Crisis]

I lose internet for 2 months, come back, and my post is still getting flammed... lol. Well, to those who took it for what it was, glad I could help. To everyone else, we all know Drg/War is the best combo, so just drop it and let the people who want to mess around here and there with something different, do it without being flammed.

[Draco Dagon]

I must say, this SelfDestructButton is really a uberish-wanting n00b who probably gets beat up in school, no wonder he's so mad. :D

Anyhow, I've been playing Drg/War for a while and I just don't see it as the best dragoon combo. I'm even depressed I leveled my warrior up to lvl 20 to find out how much it sucks when subbed. Besides, it's not like the dragoon is a natural tank, so why make it take so much damage?

Granted-I've yet to try any other subjob for my dragoon (except my thief which I used only in farming thus far). But still, warrior just doesn't seem worth it.

Edit: I too play for fun, so do bother attacking me, SelfDestructButton-since you seem so good at it.

Also, I see nothing wrong with drg/drk myself and I've thought about going with it myself.

[Kailea]

I have played as a DRG/WAR DRG/THF and a DRG/DRK, I like DRG/DRK ALOT....but I was not being "acepted" so I had to change to WAR sub, DRG/DRK works really well, but you all know how most peopel are now adays -.-
just to see....I might change back and try subing it again

[Macht]

The biggest idiotic thing that anyone can do is assume a combination doesn't work by looking at hard stats alone. It's almost everyday I hear of equipment that everyone didn't know what to do with that someone finds it has a hidden trait that can actually make what seems like odd jobs work good.

Damn I even know I have a piece of gear that does that, I haven't bothered to try and identify which gear it is but it's definatly there (RNG/WAR 60/30 and RNG/DRK 60/30, RNG/WAR Barrage without buffs tops at around 700 dmg, RNG/DRK Barrage without buffs tops at 1.1k dmg the extra attack bonus from DRK can't make that huge a difference so there is a hidden aspect causing it).

To the point of DRG/WAR and DRG/DRK having more attack bonuses that is bogus. They have the exact same amount, if anyone bothered to look WAR gets attack bonus at 30 and DRG gets attack bonus at 10. DRK gets attack bonus at 10, 30, and 50 (Of course the 50 one doesn't matter). Now by that simple fact if you subbed DRG/DRK and out of a simple hit without last resort or berserk on you do more damage then THERE IS A HIDDEN ELEMENT that is making the DRG/DRK stronger.

Also as an FYI even though your elemental skill seems weak there are setups you can do with the gear that still makes the spells quite effective still, granted they are not as good as an actual DRKs (Who at times has trouble also) but mine have not been so terrible that there was no point in using them.

To further reinforce the spell use that Crisis mentioned earlier for poison, that would actually be a helpful addition to get the wyvern to cast is cure breath. On top of that the wyvern can cast some pretty god cure breaths (using 8 mp for a good cure breath vs. a whm wasting some 12-30+ mp seems quite benefitial there is conserving the whm's mp). Also I can see that being applied very nicely in a party (did everyone forget about spirit link? You can create a circlutaory restoration there that seems like a huge advantage).

[CarbonFibre]

Although maybe not the best sub, I think /DRK allows you to use a dual purpose Wyvern with the least amount of compromises compared to other subs (like PLD sub or something). If you aren't fighting something that does a lot of high damage specials or you don't have a WHM, I suppose the healing breaths could help if one allowed the tank to get a bit low on HP. It could save some MP for the mages. This instance wouldn't come up very often though, which supports the idea that /WAR is better.

[fuz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think multi-purpose wyvern heals other PT members, it only heals the drg.

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by fuz
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think multi-purpose wyvern heals other PT members, it only heals the drg.

Oh really? That would make sense since they'd have to gimp the multi-purpose in some way instead of it just being able to do the jobs of both the offensive and healing wyverns.

[Drogen_Shomuro]

I *think* it doesn't heal PT members. I was subbing nin in a coffer key PT, and it didn't heal one of my PT members when he was under 1/3.

Back on the drg/drk thing, I'm curious how much Last Resort + Soul Eater + Penta Thrust does. Since Soul Eater adds dmg per hit, hyothetically this is when a drg/drk would be strongest.

I can't really say though, my drk is lvl 11.

Does stun get resisted? Would a drg/drk's stun resisted?

[SelfdestButton]

'K, I'll bite. I don't know why since all of you have entirely failed to grasp any idea I put forth, but I guess I'm stubborn.

You can make an argument on Drg/drk viability and I won't contest it, since I can see the validity. It's a sort of an extremely circumstancial, very vague and questionable validity, but it might exist, so you drg/drk advocates out there can get this wonderful magical thing called the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, I already said this about 20 posts back but it was lost in a quandary of stupid.

What I did question was the validity of playing a job combo that you know and acknowledge is inferior, but continue to play it for aesthetic value or "fun", something you'll also find me questioning about 20 posts back, once again lost to most of you through your thick haze of idiocy.

drg/drk vs. drg/war is a numerical comparison of damage. Noone, NOONE has pulled out a parser to see which is better, so any argument is moot on that subject. No-one has run damage equations or simulations, no-one has compared raw stats. Here's a nice cup of shut the fuck up, and that's not what I was arguing about AT ALL.

I'll repeat again, just to make sure. I am not questioning the worth or lackthereof of drg/drk (although it is questionable), I am questioning the point of playing a job combo you believe to be inferior for fun.

Read it again, just to make sure you got it.

Read it again anyways, just cause you're fucking retarded.

Thanks. Please for the love of god, let this dead horse rest.

[GSDragoon]

Does stun get resisted? Would a drg/drk's stun resisted?

Yes, it's based on Dark Magic skill and Int. I was going to level DRK for stun on some HNM's till a BLM told me. I've seen some BLM's even get resisted. Healing breaths only cure you from PLD, NIN or DRK sub.

[Kailea]

I'll repeat again, just to make sure. I am not questioning the worth or lackthereof of drg/drk (although it is questionable), I am questioning the point of playing a job combo you believe to be inferior for fun.

can you be any more one sided........god, you sound like you have already made up your mind that DRG/DRK does not work.

I have played as both DRG/WAR and DRG/DRK. DRG/DRK does put out more damage, the only down side is that you lose provoke. The only reason why I am DRG/WAR right now is my DRK is still only lv32, and needs to be leveled.

[Kibagami]

Yo don't only loose provoke. You lose double attack and you loose berserk. Now berserk has a 5 min recast with a 3 min duration, which means you have it 3/5 of the time. Last resort which would be your main way of pumping your attack has a 5 min recast with a 1 min duration no? which means you can use it 1/5 of the time. Not counting Souleater that means your attack is lower most of the time, cause 1 more attack bonus isn't going make up for the lost of berserk. Now i have never used souleater in a DRG/DRK fashion so i cannot really talk about that. Anyways Selfdestructbutton makes a really good point. No one has a parser of this. Someone lvl 60+ (yeah 60+ cause souleater could be the deciding factor) plz go out there xp for 3 hours with DRG/WAR then go change to DRG/DRK and xp for another 3 hours on the same mobs and show us the results. And while you are on it you could parser any other crazy DRG/??? combo you would like and show us the results. And then we can say which is really better :p

Sometimes i feel DRG hasnt advanced much cause no one does any real research like Applepie does for RDM and Rusta for the WAR forum. They go thru a lot of trouble to prove stuff...while here in the DRG forums with just talk with no proof of anything

[SelfdestButton]

so you drg/drk advocates out there can get this wonderful magical thing called the benefit of the doubt.

Kailea, you fail at english.

[Macht]

Originally posted by Drogen_Shomuro
I *think* it doesn't heal PT members. I was subbing nin in a coffer key PT, and it didn't heal one of my PT members when he was under 1/3.

Back on the drg/drk thing, I'm curious how much Last Resort + Soul Eater + Penta Thrust does. Since Soul Eater adds dmg per hit, hyothetically this is when a drg/drk would be strongest.

I can't really say though, my drk is lvl 11.

Does stun get resisted? Would a drg/drk's stun resisted?

Well it's pretty obvious that the Wyvern has not been tested much in it's abilities still (Even after the multiple times I've suggested that it needs to be done). I guess eventaully I'll have to raise DRG myself to test it.

For the wyvern I'm sure it's triggering factor is your HP only. Also since it's a breath type attack that means it only goes in a specific direction and players along that direction would then get the benefit of the effect.

This is why I mentioned spirit link (Force the DRGs HP down , hopefully close enough to trigger the healing breath) and then using a spell like poison or some other cheap quick spell. Now because it is a breath attack that means the DRG would have to position himself in the direction he wants the breath attack to go (Probably even stand right next to the target/targets he wants to heal even).

If the wyvern's attack is really a breath type attack then it should heal all players along the direction of that conical path and of the correct distance for it too. From the sound of it though it seems that testing the DRGs breath to see if it really is a true breath type has not really been examined.

If the wyvern's breath really is a true breath type then it stands to reason that he may have even added functionality for fighting undead. Spirit Link force DRGs HP close to what's needed for healing breath. DRG and wyvern positioned on opposite sides of the undead. DRG cast a spell wyvern uses healing breath, If it's a true breath type, and the breath damages the undead an extra amount and heals the DRG back a reasonable portion of HP.

Add on to that if done and Tank and DRG are opposite of the wyvern and that's done, you then damage the undead , heal the DRG back, and save WHM a cure on the Tank. As mentioned earlier that the healing breath works with NIN, that seems like it could give it more functional use (I had only known that the healing breath works on PLD, and DRK never knew it did it on NIN too :sweat: ).

[Drogen_Shomuro]

Originally posted by Macht
Well it's pretty obvious that the Wyvern has not been tested much in it's abilities still (Even after the multiple times I've suggested that it needs to be done). I guess eventaully I'll have to raise DRG myself to test it.

For the wyvern I'm sure it's triggering factor is your HP only. Also since it's a breath type attack that means it only goes in a specific direction and players along that direction would then get the benefit of the effect.[/B]

The discrepancy here isn't about how healing breath works, it's whether or not the hybrid wyvern heals only the dragoon when he's at low hp, or other party members when they're at low hp as well. With the full healing type wyvern, it heals other party members.

Wyvern healing breath isn't directional, it's single target =p. ...although that would be a damn nifty improvement.