Lance progression

[Lahfiel]

I'm finding it hard to give up GK lance since it's got 7 accuracy on it, I can get money, but basically anything that takes an alliance or HNM LS is out of the picture, what should I go for? Colossal lance? Is Barchha even an upgrade?

[2.0]

If you're not good enough to get the Gae Bolg (best lance) might as well settle for the next best thing.(Colossal Lance)

[Lahfiel]

Well is there any reason why other people would want to take down Vouivre?

Edit: As incentive I mean. Most of the people I know are a bit self-serving.

[SolidSnake207]

Hmmm. Maybe that new lance from the update... Dreizack (sp?) the stats are imo better than Colossal Lance since it adds STR+DEX not STR+VIT(We don't need) at the loss of like 3 damage. Not bad... Gae Bolg isn't that great... I mean seriously that delay is fuckin huge.... - -;;

[totti591]

Im nowhere near lv70s so you can ignore my post but from what
I've seen Squareenix disowned us after 60..
Grand Knight lance for 10lvs..... well either way
I have seen the stats on gae bolg and that of Colossal Lance
I do know a few75drg who use Colossal lance instead of
gae bolg.

Honestly the delay is retarded, DRK will attack faster then you. and at that lv you need to be concetrating on gaining TP for skillchains. IMO save up for Colossal Lance till you can get
that uber as hell dynamis relic spear and spend years upgrading it or something.

[2.0]

When looking at a weapon damage is the most important aspect. Delay is probably the least important. Higher delay also=more tp per hit. That is why Gae Bolg is the best weapon for a dragoon. Don't let the possiblilty of you never being able to get this weapon cloud your judgement.

[Lahfiel]

So then ice lance is better than colossal? or does the STR on colossal outweigh the one extra dmg? If it does, that's a pretty expensive 4 level rental, with a very slow resell. If it's better than ice lance then I'll definitely get it, as the only thing that's within my reach besides those is the gavial set and +1 snipers/amemit, the latter I've been informed is a waste of time unless you don't need anything.

[Ungerpurr]

Hmm...Dreizack has a significantly better damage/delay ratio than Gae Bolg...87/477 vs. 92/551, which works out to Dreizack having a ratio nearly 10% better. It also has +4 str +1 dex and an additional effect similar to great axe's "weapon break" weaponskill.

What it boils down to is whether or not the DRG is a skillchain ender. If not, Dreizack will easily do more damage over time. If the DRG is ending the skillchain (which, from what I've heard, is unlikely), then gae bolg might be able to do a bit better due to its higher damage rating.

Gae Bolg is very nice at level 68, there's no doubt about it. But numbers-wise, I don't see how it could even top a colossal lance at level 70, let alone a beast like ice lance +1 (90/478) at level 74.

If I've missed the reason why high damage is more important than damage/delay ratio, please enlighten me. From what I hear, DRGs don't close skillchains much, which is about the only place you need as high of damage as possible.

[2.0]

Damage to delay ratios mean nothing to me. Absolutely nothing.Especially considering that in any good party the Dragoon gets hasted anyway.
If it(ratio) did matter a Ranger with guns would be useless and Ninja would do the most damage which clearly is not the case.

With this higher delay weapon +jumps a dragoon can build tp pretty fast thus leading to starting more skillchains thus leading to more magic bursts(which is most important). Plus it does the most damage. Gae Bolg's a winner to me.

[Ungerpurr]

What it basically boils down to as far as making damage alone better than damage/delay ratio is damage done that is only affected by damage, and not the ratio. Regular damage (over time), is of course affected by damage/delay ratio. Damage done by jumps, barrage, WS, etc. is unaffected by delay, except in the fact that these "free" attacks gain more TP the higher your delay is.

So, maybe you're right that gae bolg is the best weapon out there for drg, since drg does have a sizable amount of non-delay dependent attacking. I have my doubts that it could top ice lance +1, and I'll leave it at that.

Rangers have a sizable amount of non-delay dependent damage, usually with at least one WS every fight, and barrage (approximately) every other. This is why (imho) guns are better than bows despite the superior damage/delay ratio on bows.

Ninjas, while having the best damage/delay ratios in the game (a Fudo being 39 damage / 159 delay after the dual wield 4 bonus, assuming they used two of them), have virtually no non-delay dependent damage. Unless their 200, 225, and 250 WS are significantly better than their others, they simply don't compare on WS damage with mnk, drk, or rng. From what I've read, a ninja actually can be a very competent damage dealer if they are geared to do so, but their lack of WS damage really hurts them, at least up to my level.

Haste doesn't really affect the comparison between two weapons, as the ratio between the weapons' respective damage/delay ratios will remain the same.

[Malefas]

To be honest, the only difference you'll notice on many of the high level lances is the delay, your damage will be mainly consistant.

Before the TP nerf, Gae Bolg was a god send since 551 delay + Penta Thrust was a nice TP return. Now though, Gae Bolg's strength is kind of diminished, since it places the lance into the scythe category in terms of delay, where it doesn't compare.

If you had to ask me, I'd say the best lance you would get would be the Ice Lance +1. Thats more bang for your buck due to it having 90 dmg and 478 delay, plus you have additional damage.

I'd say Colossal Lance/Dreizack/Ice Lance (normal one) would all take the second place spot, followed by the Gae Bolg in third.

To sum it all up really, you'll notice the delay much more than the DMG of the weapon, and the +STR.

Of course, Gae Assail and Gungnir turn the aforementioned into toothpicks, but good luck with getting them. I'm almost out of my first upgrade for relic lance (becoming the Hotspur Lance), and it looks like the second stage is gonna have me sitting on my thumbs for awhile. :sweat:

[2.0]

You're the expert here Malefas. Which spear do you use? I'd guess Ice Lance+1 but that'd just be me guessing.

[Ranoik]

hmmmmmmmmm i just looked up the stats Dreizack on mystery tour and i have a question.....

how do i get one?

[Lahfiel]

I'll hold out until Ice Lance I suppose. Only one Ice Lance +1 ever sold on my server. Dunno why~ and if Ice Lance is in same category I don't wanna drop 1.4 mil on a weapon I'll use for 4 levels and spend a few weeks reselling it.

[Balodoth]

Math

I'm not sure who has read the thread on the damage equation, but I can say uneqivocally that Dreizack is superior in DoT situations. Gae Bolg averages 16.7 damage per 100 delay where Dreizack averages 18.2. Higher damage-rated weapons make for larger damage ranges, which makes the effects of + STR hard to see, but it increases the average damage per hit of Dreizack by 4. This raises the damage/delay ratio to 19.1 per 100 delay.

Since this is per hit it can either be good or bad. It would be bad in situations where the 5 more damage of Gae Bolg results in a noticeably higher range for damage--in other words when attacking something with defense less than your attack. It is good in situations where the effect of weapon damage rating is decreased--situations where the enemy's defense is greater than your attack. This means that when farming or otherwise attacking weak monsters, Gae Bolg is superior, but when gaining experience, Dreizack is better.

For the purpose of WS's, Gae Bolg is better as it increases the base multiplier of that one attack. On the other hand, the DEX, even though it is only +1, it is still one more DEX and therefore a slight improvement in accuracy. Gae Bolg increases HP, which is useful for any solo situation, and MP, which is useful for any casting subjob. Finally, Dreizack has the additional effect of lowering enemy attack. Additional effects activate little enough to make this little more than a footnote. But anytime you can decrease the damage dealt to your parties tank, I'm sure the tank and healer will be appreciative.