Why are ppl stop playing DRG?!?!

[korosu]

I was a recent lvl 33 Nin/War and i havent been happy with my combo. Dragoon was my first choice when i first started looking at the game. But i been reading recently that ppl are telling noobs who want to be DRG not too cuz it sucks in higher after you get Penta, and that is it a waste of time. Are these just haters for the tp nerf and are mad cuz they cant spam penta and are telling other that the class sucks or are there actually problems with the class and i am just missing them? any input at all would be very helpful i dont down any classes since they all got there special roles in PTs one way or the other. But a lot ppl are just hatin and its a lot of hate and i just want to know why please. Before i go into this class blind.

Thank you in advance

[Kain99]

No, it's not just TP nerf "haters". We already do noticeably less damage then other damage dealers and our WS's tend to suck horribly. A good amount of our damage output was from not spamming penta, but using it in between SC, and then having enough TP to SC with the other member. Now sense the TP nerf we no longer can use Penta in between SCs which has lowered our dmg output considerably, SAMs are now outdamaging us. And sense we are now on the low low low end of the dmg dealing bunch, we don't get invites hardly at all. Ever sense the patch I have only been able to get 1 pick-up party, I recently just got 2 more because some friends invited me to join them but thats it.

I wouldn't go as far as to discourage people away from becomming Drg, I like the job but I don't like the 5hours in Jueno I spend every night seeking. I would just make them aware of the problems the job has and the diffculty of getting a party at higher levels.

[Ockman]

I feel for you dragoons, that is sad. Plus, it has also hurt us samurai, because alot of us were also using polearm, just for the purpose of penta thrust, but now..all that skilling up on polearm has been a waste of time for me.

Also though, I am a little bit happy, because before, everyone would put down us samurais, especially me for being a tarutaru samurai, because everyone would say "Dragoon is better damage dealer". Looks like the shoe is on the other foot. lol

Even still, that was one of the strengths of samurai and dragoon, i still dont friggin get why they had to go and do that. They gave samurai the ability to use polearms for that purpose! For the multi-hit weapon skills like penta thrust. I dont understand why they added that in the patch.

[korosu]

Thank i now understand why ppl are saying what they say Kain99 thank you for telling me. But my one last question is why dont all the DRGs start a petition to get the nerf changed back to the way it was if everyone is so mad? I mean if you got all the DRGs on this website then started pasting it around you would have a lot a ppl and be able to get things back to the way they were or are you guys happy the way it is?

[Hydroponik]

I doubt SE would give two-shits what we think, unfortunately. My only hope is that they know this is a broken class and do soemthing about it.

[Kafeen]

I don't see our damage as being that low. I was level 50 in a party with a level 66 WAR (he was helping us out) and my damage wasn't much lower than his, only 10 points or so and the other DRG in out party also level 50 did alot more (nicer equipment than me and he was Elvan). Maybe the food helped, I didn't see the WAR use any but even so he had a massive level advantage.

[Macht]

So far the only complaint the one DRG mentioned is still related to not being able to "spam" Penta-Thrust. Also what official statement by SE says that the multi-hit weapons were ment to give you back so much TP? I don't recall ever seeing such a statement and so expecting that it was intentional just because it worked like that is flat out silly. As far as I see it, that was just a mathmatical occurence that was undesired in their intended design so they corrected it.

The obvious thing you can see is that only the Samurai's were suppose to be capable of pushing the number of SC's they do in a certain amount of time beyond that of what other players can do. So if other players using Penta-Thrust can make the SAM's ability obsolte again indicates an error in design. This is like walking threw what looks like a transparent blue wall, thinking you are suppose to do that no problem and in fact you were suppose to complete something before being capable of doing that.

The fact that SE put an ability that is directly related to benefiting the Dragoon's Dragon indicates more that they are possibly working on something that is going to be helpful for Dragoons that will possibly balance it out more. Probably more boosts to come that transfers the Dragoon's power to their Dragon, making the dragoon weaker and frail but buffing their Dragon to be immensly strong.

This idea I get directly from the Dragoon Quest's story line. In the story line the Dragoon wasn't the real power but the Dragon that he raised and channels his energy threw. In essence his power being the dragons and the dragons being his. I could easily see that being something difficult to code and would explain their weaken state which I doubt is going to last. So the DRGs telling new players not to go that route is going to get chewed out pretty badly by those new players when that occurs (if they are still around).

MMORPGs are always going to change and jobs that seem weak or worthless become better or amazing. So really just playing the job you want to play is what I recommend the most. As long as you're playing a job you truely love can dedicate yourself to and not just because of it's fame or being a fad then just waiting out the downfalls is all you have to do.

A good example if you need one is MNKs, I still see new players abondon it saying it's weak. Then read high level players that are MNKs just can't stop ranting how much they enjoy the job. I've seen players I know abandon jobs like RNG and DRK with an excuse, in the end it's more that the job just wasn't their playstyle.

Lol, diving more into the psychology of it. The point you have to realize is what your Ideal self, Image self, and Reflective self see as the job you want. Guarenteed that 1 or all 3 are going to be different, if all 3 are different then it's a process of elimination to determine which you'll truely be happy with. When all is said and done really the only truth that remains is you should think about each job even try them for a while if you need to and go with the one you truely enjoy playing. In the end no one else can say what job you'll like but you.

[Ammarant]

i cant remember the exact thread but for u drgs who i respect ill give u the info the tp "nerf" was because of monks Asuran Fists WS + their high lvl h2h weapon, forget which, allowing them to not just "spam" but literly continue using the WS over and over thats why SE was forced to adjust TP return and the did it with all multy hit WSs to make it fair

[Carbon]

Penta Thrust has nothing to do with it. The TP nerf was merely the last nail in the coffin.

The real reason why dragoon has such a $hitty reputation is the lack of powerful weapon skills. Penta Thrust is NOT powerful. It's decent enough in some situations but it's not the super powerful weapon skill it has often been touted as.

When you hit Lv65, you'll see DRKs doing Spinning Slash and Cross Reapers for upwards of 1000 damage, followed by another 1000 damage skillchain effect.

Meanwhile, you as a Lv65 DRG will be doing an awesomely uber Wheeling Thrust that does about 200 damage, maybe 400 on a good day.

It's ironic that a DRG usually cannot gain enough hate on his/her own to use the hate shedding jumps. Unless you're playing trick buddy for a THF, but someone else can explain why that falls into obsolescence too at higher levels.

*That*'s the reason.

[Lone Dragon]

I admit Monk was the catalyst, but I seriously doubt we were the sole reason.

[Karinya]

The main problem with dragoon seems to be that polearm WS are weak and lack skillchain versatility. Wyvern breaths are supposed to make up for this but they don't do enough.

A fix I think would be interesting is giving the wyvern a dive attack it uses when the dragoon jumps (more powerful for the higher level jumps). This would allow the jump to do more damage if both the DRG and wyvern hit, and have a higher chance of doing at least some damage - even if the DRG misses the wyvern might still hit.

This might require some new code and/or graphic effects, if so, SE should feel free to put it in Promathia. :D

Another possibility would just be to increase the damage on some DRG-only lances, so they would do better damage over time with their normal attacks and wyvern, like monks. (It would probably also increase jump and WS damage somewhat, since it's probably calculated based on a multiplier from your normal damage.) This would likely make them an underappreciated job, like monks, because they don't put up the big numbers for normal hits or WS (and a lot of people have the wyvern filtered), but better underappreciated than genuinely ineffective.

Yet another possibility would be to give them back Dragon Sword (aka Lancet) as a JA (it was a dragoon ability in FFV, which is why Kimahri, who has it in FFX, is also a pseudo-dragoon as well as blue mage; IIRC FFIX Freya got something similar too.) If it was a low enough level that you could get it through a sub (say 25-30), there might even be a reason to sub DRG for some jobs.

Another interesting possibility would be to have all the dragoon's job traits and timed job abilities affect the wyvern too. Now your wyvern can get your attack and accuracy bonus traits, go berserk when you do, and even double attack. And why not let pets (including wyverns) benefit from bard songs, Warcry and -ra spells?

There's plenty of ways to fix Dragoon. So pick one (or more than one) - because they really are kinda weak now. They're a middle-of-the-road damage dealer that can't pull and their only real niche is that they're good at not pulling hate off bad tanks.

[tfung]

hmm.. I wish more people play drg now... I try to look for drgs as the third melee when I start one... Even tho their WS aren't too strong, their regular damage with war sub is still decent (about equal as drk/thf)... and they get TP pretty quickly if they're properly equipped.. But main reason I look for one is that I like wheeling thrust -> spining slash SC... and they can shed hate once in a while if I had to SA+TA behind them when they can't turn the mob away from the tank.

But lately, I never see drg's seeking, and when I do a search of drgs lvl70-75, I can usually only find one or two on the whole server... while war and rng can fill the same spot to start a Light SC, they're pretty hard to come by on my server (due to lack of tanks, wars are always asked to join as a tank, thus even shittier damage output with their def gear)

[evilution]

But main reason I look for one is that I like wheeling thrust -> spining slash SC... and they can shed hate once in a while if I had to SA+TA behind them when they can't turn the mob away from the tank.

This is the VERY reason i NEVER EVER EVER group a DRG in a 66+ party.

If a 3rd melee can not turn the mob, they are useless to a well set up group. Sheding all of that hate leaves you with a dead BLM because he just burst for 1200-1600 damage and if he was doing his job in the first place the BLM was already just below the point of agro so now guess who's tanking the rest of the fight.

the 0 defence 700 HP mage is who.

[csBahamut]

What about a group without a BLM?

Right now, my set party is:
PLD/WAR(me), DRG/WAR(Bro), WHM/BLM(Friend), RDM/BLM(Sis), and a THF/NIN(one of the best THF's we've played with besides rank 10 JP).

We have one more slot, and right now, I think a SAM would fit best. Two renkei per battle, so RDM can get 2 MB in. Plus, I believe a SAM can tank better than the DRG for fuidama. I have to use Flash to keep the DRG alive till fuidama is gotten off(and he likes to use beserk before he use Double Thrust). I have no problems controling hate yet. I'm hoping this will work fine as we pass 50.

[evilution]

i only count 5 ppl in that group, get a BLM